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Actually, they kept one of the oldest mistakes: overcharging. $400 to upgrade from 16GB RAM to 32GB. $200 to upgrade to 1TB SSD. These guys control the whole su

by trebor 5y ago

Actually, they kept one of the oldest mistakes: overcharging. $400 to upgrade from 16GB RAM to 32GB. $200 to upgrade to 1TB SSD. These guys control the whole supply chain without middlemen like WD, Samsung, Crucial, etc — and they charge basically double what anyone else charges. I'm not paying $2k for a laptop below what I need as a developer, when <$2k from literally anyone else will get what I need. Apple is ridiculous. Inflation is murder right now, and they JACK the prices without delivering more value.

amelius 5y ago
Get used to it. Apple will likely bust their competition at some point.
Toutouxc 5y ago
> I'm not paying $2k for a laptop below what I need as a developer, when <$2k from literally anyone else will get what I need. That's perfectly fine, you don't have to use a MacBook if the value isn't there for you.
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  Are they also not allowed to comment about it?
  - spacedcowboy 5y ago
    Just seems a bit pointless, that's all. I'm never going to buy a Bugatti Chiron, but you won't find me going to their forums and bleating on about how the gas mileage isn't as good as my Ford Focus...
    - trebor 5y ago
      I have used Apple products because if you calculate how long they last and the original cost, they cost less over a longer period of time. Or at least they did. This loss in value is what I’m complaining about. And this isn’t Apple’s forums, now is it?
eugeniub 5y ago
This is literally what they have always done and they don’t see a reason to stop
satvikpendem 5y ago
They charge what the customer would pay. As long as people keep buying, the prices will keep increasing.
chrjxnandns 5y ago
I’m in the market for a great development laptop. Do you have any links to ones that are comparable to this for under $2k I need 32-64gb of ram, a 1tb ssd, processor as fast as the M1 pro, and all day battery life.
city41 5y ago
Before all the touchbar and butterfly keyboard nonsense, MacBooks were the best laptops on the market, hands down. It looks like they may have reclaimed that spot with this update. I'd argue worth the premium if that is the case.
slownews45 5y ago
Don't buy them? Acer sells MUCH cheaper machines all day: $1.6K for a Predator here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/2021-Flagship-Acer-Predator-Triton-300-15-Gaming-Laptop-15-6-FHD-IPS-144Hz-Intel-Hexa-Core-i7-10750H-16GB-DDR4-1TB-SSD-GeForce-RTX-2070-8GB-RGB-nbsp-/256194633 https://www.walmart.com/ip/2021-Flagship-Acer-Predator-Trito... Apple has been told that their products (watch, airpods, iphones etc) have been too costly for decades now. And still makes money selling them. What I don't get - Apple's stuff seems to last forever. My dell's just crap out (battery, drivers, updates etc). My wife on a mac -> she just goes and goes. I'd love to see the support histories on old ACER's and Dell's vs Apple.
- sircastor 5y ago
  I’m running (admitting reluctantly) fine on my 2014 MBP. It works for everything I need it to. It can be slow for some tasks, but I still get all the updates. I’m interested in the disparity between Apple and others with enterprise support programs. Virtually any other company will send you a loaner or replacement laptop under warranty and repair yours. Apple seems to just say “That sucks” and might fix your laptop.
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  I don't understand comments like this. They're not buying it and they're explaining why.
  - slownews45 5y ago
    No, they are saying apple is making a mistake and that "Apple is ridiculous." What they don't value is that apple, in the midst of chip shortage, is going to be doing delivery within ONE WEEK of announcement of an absolutely bleeding edge node solution. I get it, your Dell Intel whatever is better and/or cheaper. I used to be on dell and now am on lenovo. But there is a reason apple charges what they do, a totally integrated solution, that just works, battery life for miles, not too hot on the lap etc etc. and available in seemingly insane quantities. Seriously, ford parks cash cow F-150's and apple is turning out millions and millions of phones (100 million phones alone per year)?
macNchz 5y ago
I've been a Mac user since the 90s and a long time apologist for the Apple premium... I understand and have generally been totally fine paying for design, fit and finish, longevity, and attention to detail that's hard to come by elsewhere. That said, the absurd markups on storage and memory have always been REALLY aggravating to me, and were a factor in my decision to build a desktop machine instead of getting another Mac last year. It's not even a question of affordability, it just rubs me the wrong way. $400 for +16GB of RAM in 2021?? Nonsense.
- fastball 5y ago
  What do you normally pay for 16GB of LPDDR5 RAM?
  - macNchz 5y ago
    Supply chain issues complicate things a bit, but if I'm searching correctly the list price for Micron modules is ~$50 or less per 16GB. Ultimately, though, my beef with their pricing is not really about this specific release which obviously uses cutting-edge components, but about Apple's general approach to pricing these upgrades. They'll happily sell you old tech with the same crazy markups. You can still buy a new 27" Intel iMac with 8GB of RAM and the option to upgrade to 16 for $200. That's just a normal 8GB DDR4 SODIMM, which you could instead order for $29, and it installs in about 15 seconds. I get that businesses need margins to survive, but Apple's stinginess and customer unfriendly price structure with storage and memory has been going on for a long time and just really bothers me. I like their products! Just let me spec it such that it deserves the "Pro" label without feeling like a chump.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Did you hackintosh? Because I sure as hell am not running Windows and Linux is great for VMs/containers/servers but doesn't run all my local software. If you don't mind Windows, lots and lots of cheaper options. But you already knew that.
  - macNchz 5y ago
silverlake 5y ago
Lenovo X1 Extreme charges $340 to go from 16GB to 32GB. Then $680 from 32 to 64GB. (regular price, there's a clearance sale now). $300 to upgrade SSD from 512GB to 1TB. It's $2400 for an X1E (at sale price. Regular is $4.3k!!) roughly at par to $2k 14" pro. Surface Laptop Studio with similar specs at $2100. Costs +$600 to go to 32GB and 1TB (which == $400 + $200 upgrade you mentioned). Dell XPS 15" is $2400. If you were even dimly aware of current prices for high-end laptops you'd know the Mac is priced in the same expensive range. If you prefer $1K plastic crap that's fine. Some people like Velveeta and Canned Spam too.
- slownews45 5y ago
  What's interesting is Dell is shipping machines at top end with chips from generally older / slower nodes. Somehow Apple has some kind of lock on a lot of capacity at TSMC at the top end of the node range. That XPS 15" is probably running a comet lake chip. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/comet_lake https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/comet_... Ie, 14mm, launched in 2019 That node size (less the ++'s) goes back to Skylake (when it was amazing actually) which is from 2015.
Aperocky 5y ago
Here's the deal. I don't care if I can get something workable for $1000 less. When I'm making many times that with the laptop as my primary interface for work, I'd rather spend more just to make me feel that tiny bit better each day. The touchpad alone is probably worth it.
dunco 5y ago
I'll admit up front I haven't done the math on this MBP, but are the prices really so bad on a laptop$$/year basis? If you look at a feature comparison, sure, macs have always looked like a bad deal, but that evaporates when you bring a time calculation into it. The surveys I have seen all seem to place macs at about half the failure rate of other devices, and they seem to last twice as long. everyone seems to have a shocking story from Lenovo/Dell et. al. about shoddy hardware and incompetent support for anyone without a $10mil+ PO. If you pay more up front, you can make it back by using the same device for longer.

by trebor 5y ago

amelius 5y ago

Get used to it. Apple will likely bust their competition at some point.

Toutouxc 5y ago

> I'm not paying $2k for a laptop below what I need as a developer, when <$2k from literally anyone else will get what I need. That's perfectly fine, you don't have to use a MacBook if the value isn't there for you.

squeaky-clean 5y ago
Are they also not allowed to comment about it?
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  Just seems a bit pointless, that's all. I'm never going to buy a Bugatti Chiron, but you won't find me going to their forums and bleating on about how the gas mileage isn't as good as my Ford Focus...
  - trebor 5y ago
    I have used Apple products because if you calculate how long they last and the original cost, they cost less over a longer period of time. Or at least they did. This loss in value is what I’m complaining about. And this isn’t Apple’s forums, now is it?

eugeniub 5y ago

This is literally what they have always done and they don’t see a reason to stop

satvikpendem 5y ago

They charge what the customer would pay. As long as people keep buying, the prices will keep increasing.

chrjxnandns 5y ago

I’m in the market for a great development laptop. Do you have any links to ones that are comparable to this for under $2k I need 32-64gb of ram, a 1tb ssd, processor as fast as the M1 pro, and all day battery life.

city41 5y ago

Before all the touchbar and butterfly keyboard nonsense, MacBooks were the best laptops on the market, hands down. It looks like they may have reclaimed that spot with this update. I'd argue worth the premium if that is the case.

slownews45 5y ago

Don't buy them? Acer sells MUCH cheaper machines all day: $1.6K for a Predator here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/2021-Flagship-Acer-Predator-Triton-300-15-Gaming-Laptop-15-6-FHD-IPS-144Hz-Intel-Hexa-Core-i7-10750H-16GB-DDR4-1TB-SSD-GeForce-RTX-2070-8GB-RGB-nbsp-/256194633 https://www.walmart.com/ip/2021-Flagship-Acer-Predator-Trito... Apple has been told that their products (watch, airpods, iphones etc) have been too costly for decades now. And still makes money selling them. What I don't get - Apple's stuff seems to last forever. My dell's just crap out (battery, drivers, updates etc). My wife on a mac -> she just goes and goes. I'd love to see the support histories on old ACER's and Dell's vs Apple.

sircastor 5y ago
I’m running (admitting reluctantly) fine on my 2014 MBP. It works for everything I need it to. It can be slow for some tasks, but I still get all the updates. I’m interested in the disparity between Apple and others with enterprise support programs. Virtually any other company will send you a loaner or replacement laptop under warranty and repair yours. Apple seems to just say “That sucks” and might fix your laptop.
squeaky-clean 5y ago
I don't understand comments like this. They're not buying it and they're explaining why.
- slownews45 5y ago
  No, they are saying apple is making a mistake and that "Apple is ridiculous." What they don't value is that apple, in the midst of chip shortage, is going to be doing delivery within ONE WEEK of announcement of an absolutely bleeding edge node solution. I get it, your Dell Intel whatever is better and/or cheaper. I used to be on dell and now am on lenovo. But there is a reason apple charges what they do, a totally integrated solution, that just works, battery life for miles, not too hot on the lap etc etc. and available in seemingly insane quantities. Seriously, ford parks cash cow F-150's and apple is turning out millions and millions of phones (100 million phones alone per year)?

macNchz 5y ago

I've been a Mac user since the 90s and a long time apologist for the Apple premium... I understand and have generally been totally fine paying for design, fit and finish, longevity, and attention to detail that's hard to come by elsewhere. That said, the absurd markups on storage and memory have always been REALLY aggravating to me, and were a factor in my decision to build a desktop machine instead of getting another Mac last year. It's not even a question of affordability, it just rubs me the wrong way. $400 for +16GB of RAM in 2021?? Nonsense.

fastball 5y ago
What do you normally pay for 16GB of LPDDR5 RAM?
- macNchz 5y ago
  Supply chain issues complicate things a bit, but if I'm searching correctly the list price for Micron modules is ~$50 or less per 16GB. Ultimately, though, my beef with their pricing is not really about this specific release which obviously uses cutting-edge components, but about Apple's general approach to pricing these upgrades. They'll happily sell you old tech with the same crazy markups. You can still buy a new 27" Intel iMac with 8GB of RAM and the option to upgrade to 16 for $200. That's just a normal 8GB DDR4 SODIMM, which you could instead order for $29, and it installs in about 15 seconds. I get that businesses need margins to survive, but Apple's stinginess and customer unfriendly price structure with storage and memory has been going on for a long time and just really bothers me. I like their products! Just let me spec it such that it deserves the "Pro" label without feeling like a chump.
r00fus 5y ago
Did you hackintosh? Because I sure as hell am not running Windows and Linux is great for VMs/containers/servers but doesn't run all my local software. If you don't mind Windows, lots and lots of cheaper options. But you already knew that.
- macNchz 5y ago

silverlake 5y ago

Lenovo X1 Extreme charges $340 to go from 16GB to 32GB. Then $680 from 32 to 64GB. (regular price, there's a clearance sale now). $300 to upgrade SSD from 512GB to 1TB. It's $2400 for an X1E (at sale price. Regular is $4.3k!!) roughly at par to $2k 14" pro. Surface Laptop Studio with similar specs at $2100. Costs +$600 to go to 32GB and 1TB (which == $400 + $200 upgrade you mentioned). Dell XPS 15" is $2400. If you were even dimly aware of current prices for high-end laptops you'd know the Mac is priced in the same expensive range. If you prefer $1K plastic crap that's fine. Some people like Velveeta and Canned Spam too.

slownews45 5y ago
What's interesting is Dell is shipping machines at top end with chips from generally older / slower nodes. Somehow Apple has some kind of lock on a lot of capacity at TSMC at the top end of the node range. That XPS 15" is probably running a comet lake chip. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/comet_lake https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/comet_... Ie, 14mm, launched in 2019 That node size (less the ++'s) goes back to Skylake (when it was amazing actually) which is from 2015.

Aperocky 5y ago

Here's the deal. I don't care if I can get something workable for $1000 less. When I'm making many times that with the laptop as my primary interface for work, I'd rather spend more just to make me feel that tiny bit better each day. The touchpad alone is probably worth it.

dunco 5y ago

I'll admit up front I haven't done the math on this MBP, but are the prices really so bad on a laptop$$/year basis? If you look at a feature comparison, sure, macs have always looked like a bad deal, but that evaporates when you bring a time calculation into it. The surveys I have seen all seem to place macs at about half the failure rate of other devices, and they seem to last twice as long. everyone seems to have a shocking story from Lenovo/Dell et. al. about shoddy hardware and incompetent support for anyone without a $10mil+ PO. If you pay more up front, you can make it back by using the same device for longer.