4 ms·

Removed the price reference to focus on the article's main point. Honestly it's a bit frustrating when you've spent hours researching something and reached the

Removed the price reference to focus on the article's main point. Honestly it's a bit frustrating when you've spent hours researching something and reached the HN front page to have someone tear you apart over a small speculation at the bottom of the piece. But that's HN, I guess. Thank you for the correction.

thatguy0900 5y ago
To some extent, if I read an article where I don't know about 90% of it, but the 10% I do know about is wrong, I will discredit the whole thing. To many people with ulterior motives pushing misleading narratives to assume good faith mistakes on things.
itake 5y ago
The whole premise is that this change is a change we should care about, but I'm not seeing how its a difference to status quo. > First of all, understand that when you advertise on Facebook, you are reaching accounts, not people. This has always been true, since biz views were counted differently than personal. Facebook has never claimed otherwise. > we may see advertisers misled in many ways, such as thinking they're reaching more people than they are if they look at their unique link clicks metrics. Why would advertisers be misled? You linked to the documentation on how Facebook is transparent with their accounting. Advertisers can clearly see how this is calculated. You're making a lot of noise about nothing...
- heymax054 5y ago
  > Advertisers can clearly see how this is calculated. Do you have any evidence that the average advertiser can "clearly see" how this is calculated? Try this: Go to any Facebook Ads group, DM 10 advertisers and ask them if the "Impression" metric tracks accounts or people. See what % of them reply confused. Second, it appears that you haven't ran Facebook Ads at all. When you see your ad set performance, one of the primary columns you see is "Reach". If you hover over, you'll see this: > Reach > The number of people who saw your ads at least once. Reach is different to impressions, which may include multiple views of your ads by the same people. My argument is that Facebook is changing the definition of "people" to "accounts". If you are the SAME ad both on Facebook and Instagram, Facebook will report your reach as "2" (compared to "1", as it was before the change). How is this "noise about nothing"? Third, the documentation you linked me to has been recently updated to reflect the news release Facebook announced. This information hasn't always been there. Your arguments made sense at the beginning (with regards to the "double pricing" argument) but they appear extremely biased now.
  - itake 5y ago
    Facebook, Google[0], Yelp, and every other digital advertiser define "impression" as a view, not a unique human. If Facebook did anything other than that, then that could be considered misleading. We already discussed: "The number of people who saw your ads at least once." Facebook provides a link to what they define is "people" and provide an example of this specific situation we are discussing [1]. We can even look back to Dec 2020 to see this definition [2], which is way before the announcement published. Unfortunately, Facebook seems to of shuffled around their biz documentation page, so I can't easily find a direct source on wayback machine, but reachlocal.com in 2017 [3] published a blog article describing Facebook impressions as per view. Please explain what there is to be mad about? There are no definition changes. Advertisers have always known that impressions were views. Advertisers have always known that there can be duplicate "reaches" due to 1 human managing multiple accounts (biz vs personal). [0] - https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6320?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6320?hl=en [1] - https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20201223180727/https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://web.archive.org/web/20201223180727/https://www.faceb... [3] - https://blog.reachlocal.com/facebook-advertising-terms-you-need-to-know https://blog.reachlocal.com/facebook-advertising-terms-you-n...
    - heymax054 5y ago
      Again, there ARE definition changes. From [1] (an article you referenced): > When a person has more than one account and takes > actions (such as liking photos or adding comments) on the separate accounts, these actions may be counted separately even though they were made by the same person. Notice the "may be counted" part (which is pretty vague and it's hard to argue the definition hasn't changed on a vague statement). Judging by the their latest announcement [2], by mentioning "may be counted" in [1], they probably meant this: - If that persons' email was the same on two or more accounts, or they used the same mobile device, we'll count it as the one person - Otherwise, we'll count it as a different person Again, I'm quoting this part from [2]: > For example, if someone used the same email address across their Facebook and Instagram accounts or accessed both platforms from the same device, we counted them as one person when they interacted with ads. The definition of "may be counted" will essentially change after Facebook implements their counting update to: - If a person didn't link their accounts under "Accounts Center", we'll count them as 2 people - Otherwise we'll count them as one person So Facebook won't make any attempts to implicitly associate 2 accounts as 1 person using emails/device IDs as they did in the past. Based on the available data, the definition of what Facebook counts as a "unique person" HAS changed. [1] https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 [2] https://www.facebook.com/business/news/an-update-on-how-we-count-people-for-ads-planning-and-measurement https://www.facebook.com/business/news/an-update-on-how-we-c...

thatguy0900 5y ago

To some extent, if I read an article where I don't know about 90% of it, but the 10% I do know about is wrong, I will discredit the whole thing. To many people with ulterior motives pushing misleading narratives to assume good faith mistakes on things.

itake 5y ago

The whole premise is that this change is a change we should care about, but I'm not seeing how its a difference to status quo. > First of all, understand that when you advertise on Facebook, you are reaching accounts, not people. This has always been true, since biz views were counted differently than personal. Facebook has never claimed otherwise. > we may see advertisers misled in many ways, such as thinking they're reaching more people than they are if they look at their unique link clicks metrics. Why would advertisers be misled? You linked to the documentation on how Facebook is transparent with their accounting. Advertisers can clearly see how this is calculated. You're making a lot of noise about nothing...

heymax054 5y ago
> Advertisers can clearly see how this is calculated. Do you have any evidence that the average advertiser can "clearly see" how this is calculated? Try this: Go to any Facebook Ads group, DM 10 advertisers and ask them if the "Impression" metric tracks accounts or people. See what % of them reply confused. Second, it appears that you haven't ran Facebook Ads at all. When you see your ad set performance, one of the primary columns you see is "Reach". If you hover over, you'll see this: > Reach > The number of people who saw your ads at least once. Reach is different to impressions, which may include multiple views of your ads by the same people. My argument is that Facebook is changing the definition of "people" to "accounts". If you are the SAME ad both on Facebook and Instagram, Facebook will report your reach as "2" (compared to "1", as it was before the change). How is this "noise about nothing"? Third, the documentation you linked me to has been recently updated to reflect the news release Facebook announced. This information hasn't always been there. Your arguments made sense at the beginning (with regards to the "double pricing" argument) but they appear extremely biased now.
- itake 5y ago
  Facebook, Google[0], Yelp, and every other digital advertiser define "impression" as a view, not a unique human. If Facebook did anything other than that, then that could be considered misleading. We already discussed: "The number of people who saw your ads at least once." Facebook provides a link to what they define is "people" and provide an example of this specific situation we are discussing [1]. We can even look back to Dec 2020 to see this definition [2], which is way before the announcement published. Unfortunately, Facebook seems to of shuffled around their biz documentation page, so I can't easily find a direct source on wayback machine, but reachlocal.com in 2017 [3] published a blog article describing Facebook impressions as per view. Please explain what there is to be mad about? There are no definition changes. Advertisers have always known that impressions were views. Advertisers have always known that there can be duplicate "reaches" due to 1 human managing multiple accounts (biz vs personal). [0] - https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6320?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6320?hl=en [1] - https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20201223180727/https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://web.archive.org/web/20201223180727/https://www.faceb... [3] - https://blog.reachlocal.com/facebook-advertising-terms-you-need-to-know https://blog.reachlocal.com/facebook-advertising-terms-you-n...
  - heymax054 5y ago
    Again, there ARE definition changes. From [1] (an article you referenced): > When a person has more than one account and takes > actions (such as liking photos or adding comments) on the separate accounts, these actions may be counted separately even though they were made by the same person. Notice the "may be counted" part (which is pretty vague and it's hard to argue the definition hasn't changed on a vague statement). Judging by the their latest announcement [2], by mentioning "may be counted" in [1], they probably meant this: - If that persons' email was the same on two or more accounts, or they used the same mobile device, we'll count it as the one person - Otherwise, we'll count it as a different person Again, I'm quoting this part from [2]: > For example, if someone used the same email address across their Facebook and Instagram accounts or accessed both platforms from the same device, we counted them as one person when they interacted with ads. The definition of "may be counted" will essentially change after Facebook implements their counting update to: - If a person didn't link their accounts under "Accounts Center", we'll count them as 2 people - Otherwise we'll count them as one person So Facebook won't make any attempts to implicitly associate 2 accounts as 1 person using emails/device IDs as they did in the past. Based on the available data, the definition of what Facebook counts as a "unique person" HAS changed. [1] https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/283579896000936 [2] https://www.facebook.com/business/news/an-update-on-how-we-count-people-for-ads-planning-and-measurement https://www.facebook.com/business/news/an-update-on-how-we-c...