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Colin Powell has died
- Fnoord 5y agoDid he do anything relevant (public interest-wise) the past decade?
- gremlinsinc 5y agoyou could say his entire life is a net negative. the only public-interest is the crimes against humanity he's committed.
- Fnoord 5y agoI used the word relevant to avoid judgemental terms like positive or negative. Public interest and relevant are both neutral terms. Negative deeds can also be relevant or in public interest.
- disneygibson 5y agoImagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.
- x86_64Ubuntu 5y agoNo one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. When was the last time you heard anything from Phil Donahue?
- CulturalMarxism 5y ago> No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. but that's only because Powell lead the charge with the false narrative.
- cafard 5y agoWell, I hadn't heard much about Phil Donahue for some years before that.
- pessimizer 5y agoHe had a fairly popular cable show, and the ratings for it weren't a secret. He was fired as the television networks went on a war footing.
- AndrewBissell 5y agoAre we evaluating the wisdom and virtue of people's actions based on whether they keep them in the limelight? Just because your protest won't necessarily win out doesn't mean you shouldn't mount one.
- SantalBlush 5y agoI swear most of HN barely reads a thread before firing off some half-baked retort. The comment above about Phil Donahue was a reply to this: >Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Nowhere in the above reply about Donahue was there an implication that people shouldn't protest, or that the virtue of their actions are based on whether those actions keep them in the limelight.
- pmarreck 5y agoIsn't "argumentum ad populum" a fallacy?
- scythe 5y agoI don't know about that. Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul both raised their profile significantly, and while there have been hiccups since then, they're both much more prominent than they were before 2003 — Ron Paul's son may have even benefited by association.
- bartread 5y agoPhil Donahue is 85. I imagine he's been taking things a bit easier for 10 or 15 years. It's not as though Colin Powell has been making headlines for a while either, and for no doubt similar reasons. This has nothing to do with whether or not he should have taken a stand against the war in Iraq. I agree with disneygibson: Colin Powell had an exceptional career, all of which led up to that moment, where he simply blew it.
- 1cvmask 5y agoThe only reason why you say he blew it at the end is because it was on public display. Perhaps his whole career progression was being a company man who followed orders blindly but we were never privy to it. DC is a town that rewards failing upwards.
- pessimizer 5y agoPhil Donahue was fired for questioning the evidence that was sending us to war.
- bartread 5y agoSure, or at least they'd discussed firing him because of that (but it was in advance of the invasion, I believe), but he was already what he might have considered retirement age when that happened. Could he have gone on elsewhere if he'd wanted to? I bet he could have done. Maybe he just didn't want to.
- pbourke 5y ago> No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. Would that include President Obama?
- marricks 5y agoYou don’t get rewarded for questioning the state (or any large power) unfortunately, at least not in media attention or promotions. That said, of course he should have.
- purple_ferret 5y agoHow well hailed is Russ Feingold? Got 'rewarded' by being voted out of office and forgotten.
- gregwtmtno 5y agoNice to hear Russ's name on HN. Not completely forgotten I see. He also opposed the Patriot Act when it was extremely popular which I thought was courageous.
- betterunix2 5y agoHe would have faded into obscurity and we would all be talking about how terrible his replacement was for lying to the UN.
- disneygibson 5y agoIncorrect. He would be hailed as the first African American Secretary of State with a decorated military career that resigned to protest lies and an unjust war. Textbooks a century from now will include his name. It could have been in a positive light, but now his name will be forever tarnished.
- bigpoppa 5y ago[dead]
- jtdev 5y ago[flagged]
- yosito 5y agoAnd 84 years old.
- hellbannedguy 5y agoIt's still a shock. I never thought he was that old.
- TheHypnotist 5y agoAnd getting treatment for myeloma.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agohttps://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm?s_cid=mm7018e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm?s_cid=mm... In a multistate network of U.S. hospitals during January–March 2021, receipt of Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines was 94% effective against COVID-19 hospitalization among fully vaccinated adults and 64% effective among partially vaccinated adults aged ≥65 years.
- jtdev 5y agoI don’t believe any-fucking-thing the CDC is saying rn about C19.
- TheHypnotist 5y agoOh, why?
- jtdev 5y agoThey’ve been politicized and captured by industry to the point of being an actual caricature…
- Koshkin 5y agoI will always remember him for bringing a vial of what he asserted to be Saddam’s chemical weapon to the UN Assembly.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y agoA complete lie which he was fully aware of. > At one point, he became so angry at the lack of adequate sourcing to intelligence claims that he declared: "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit," according to the magazine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/02/usa.iraq https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/02/usa.iraq He did read it in full, of course. And he brought the fake vial of Iraqi anthrax to the presentation, too. A known unknown of known bullshit, I guess. A lie that probably cost hundreds of thousands of lives (unless, as he also said, they already decided to go to war in which case, he also lied to the UN Security Council about their intent). What a war criminal.
- gralx 5y agoAs Powell's chief of staff Col. Lawrence Wilkerson once recalled, that speech resulted in a resumption of hostilities for a war that already received Security Council approval back in the '90s - the original war never stopped, as no truce was ever agreed to, only detente. North and South Korea are in a similar state of detente. Powell's speech itself was an effort to receive political support for reengagement.
- paganel 5y agoHe was also successfully honey-pot-ed by my country, Romania, at about the same time (early 2000s), googling "corina cretu" and "colin powell" should reveal some Romanian texts (easily translatable via Google Translate) plus some photos. Old habits die hard, I guess (I'm talking about my country's tactics, which I guess we learned from our big neighbour further East).
- betterunix2 5y agoIs that really the standard for calling someone a war criminal? National leaders always lie about the reasons for war, whether they are the attackers or the defenders. No doubt that Colin Powell did the wrong thing when he lied to the UN, but let's not throw around the term "war criminal" to mean "someone who did the wrong thing."
- betterunix2 5y agoRIP. This is very sad news. I personally disagreed with many of his actions, especially the Iraq/WMD story, but even so I had a lot of respect for him.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y agoThe worst war criminals probably loved their family, made great speeches and had interesting things to say. Always sad to see them go.
- trasz 5y agoA lot of respect for a war monger responsible for killing million random people? No offence, but this says a lot about your ethics.
- uberman 5y agoWith due respect, I feel it is quite disingenuous to characterize Powel as either a warmonger or as being personally responsible for the deaths of a million people. In fact, he is reported to have called the Neocon cabal as 'a bunch of fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq. If Powell is the one responsible, are you absolving Donald Rumsfeld and more importantly Dick Cheney of responsibility? How about the join houses of congress and the US press. Do they all get absolved of responsibility because Powell gave a speech at the UN? The US was going to war and though he did not like it, Powell was tasked with speaking to the UN about it. Did he know some of what he said was not sustained by facts, or even that they were lies? Sure and he regretted it the rest of his days. The important point is, Powell at the UN or not, the US was going to war. Laying all the deaths on him is completely scapegoating a fine man and thus excusing the true Neocon powerbrokers who are ultimately responsible.
- rajamaka 5y ago"Do they all get absolved of responsibility because Powell gave a speech at the UN?" No, obviously not. "Did he know some of what he said was not sustained by facts, or even that they were lies?" If he didn't know all the facts perhaps he should have had the moral fortitude to not beat the drums to a war machine that resulted in so many innocent deaths
- shimonabi 5y agoHe should have resigned before the UN speech. I will never forgive him. He knew it was all BS and I knew when I was watching him live.
- redsummer 5y agoVial man
- hawk_ 5y agoI won't understand respect for someone who was reponsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of people because he lied.
- asteroidbelt 5y agoIf you are talking about Iraq, these people were not exactly living happy lives under Saddam rule. Colin lie is inexcusable, but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq. Net zero at least. (Feel free to downvote, downvote is used for disagreement on HN these days.)
- disneygibson 5y agoThe estimates vary, but between half a million and a million people have died from the war and its aftermath. Not including Syrian Civil War or Libya, which were absolutely consequences of destabilizing the region. No matter how bad Saddam was, invading was a bad solution.
- arodyginc 5y agogo there and check with people, huh?
- asteroidbelt 5y agoNo you go and check. This is a silly argument.
- lone-commenter 5y ago> but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq I wouldn't even know where to start. This is such an obviously illogical argument. I mean, man, c'mon.
- rdl 5y agoI spent 6 years there, including some time "on the economy". Iran-Iraq War and Post-Gulf War 1 sanctions were each worse for Iraq than the 2003 invasion (by far). The various problems with the occupation (which mostly fall on Bremer/CPA and GWB/Cheney) were probably within an order of magnitude of Iran-Iraq and sanctions, maybe even directly comparable. Rise of ISIS (also a separate thing) and general sectarian violence as also bad at that level. It's hard to tell how far back the causality chain you should go. A simple "kill Saddam, put any reasonable other person in, don't extensively reconstruct the government, GTFO" was what I was assuming would happen in 2003, which probably would have been net-positive for Iraqis. If you are bundling "invasion in 2003" with CPA + sectarianism + ISIS, then they're collectively highly net-negative for Iraqis, but I don't think they were necessarily linked in 2003. I still would have opposed it as a US person (because it was a distraction from Afghanistan, which ALSO should have been concluded in late 2001 vs turned into a 20 year quagmire...) Colin Powell has a decent place in my memory for his work in the 1990s and before, but he definitely spent his reputational capital in lying to UN, even if it didn't ultimately influence the course of action. I could certainly agree with him perhaps even overdrawing that account in total.
- xqcgrek2 5y agoIronic that his predecessor (Kissinger) is still alive. I say it's "ironic" because Kissinger opened US relations with China, which ultimately set off a series of events leading to Powell's death.
- Pxtl 5y agoA lot of people die. A good number of them partially because of his actions.
- nickthemagicman 5y agoAround half a million innocent Afghani and Iraqi civilians died in Afghanistan and Iraq during those wars. I dont understand why the American news media neglected to report on that. Another interesting observation: Halliburton ran the supply chain for both the Vietnam war and the Gulf wars. Not alot of sympathy from me for that guy.
- belter 5y agoFor the younger generation who might have missed the reference ...Halliburton was the company the vice president used to be CEO of. Yes you read that correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
- bhouston 5y agoI was against the Iraq war as well. It was clearly based on lies. It also lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. What surprised me and I noticed then when Donald Rumsfeld died. Both Iraqi and Afghanistan have nearly doubled their populations since 2001: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/iraq-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/iraq-populati... https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/afghanistan-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/afghanistan-p... I wonder if that was partly resulting from the aid both of them got after the US invasions? Or just general population trends in Middle East countries? From my quick study it appears they have higher population growth than surrounding countries.
- foolzcrow 5y agoHopefully cnn staff will join him. They helped push a lie that killed 981,000 innocent civilians which half of were children. Rott in Hell. Now they turned it on us.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago13 Rules of Leadership First printed in the August 13, 1989, issue of Parade magazine,[41] these are Colin Powell's 13 Rules of Leadership.[42][43] It ain't as bad as you think. Get mad, then get over it. Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. It can be done. Be careful what you choose. You may get it. Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision. You can't make someone else's choices. Check small things. Share credit. Remain calm. Be kind. Have a vision. Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers. Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier. (c)Wikipedia
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago> It ain't as bad as you think. It was for the people in Afghanistan and Iraq. > Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision. That one certainly didn't age well.
- galuggus 5y agoSee also- You can't make someone else's choices. (except who their president is)
- ikerdanzel 5y agoBasically rules to be a "yes-sir" man. Talk is cheap. Do the walk. And that failed at walk will be greatly remembered in American history. He could easily just resigned when being forced to act at UN. He choose to go on and display his wmd nonsense act in the process assisting Rumseld, blow 10+ trillions and gotten at least 8K American boys died on fabled WMD. He knows it is a lie showing he was a hypocrite or don't know which them absolute idiot. Either case, not a trait of a great man.
- gadders 5y agoThere was also the slide deck that elaborated on these. A lot of good sense in it, regardless of what you think of him: https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=467329 https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=467329 [PDF]
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- CapricornNoble 5y agoColin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performance at the UN in 2003. Agreed that he should have resigned in protest instead. What an ignoble reputational end to an otherwise amazing role model. RIP Sir.
- AndrewBissell 5y agoI don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles, and mostly-hagiographic obituaries that come with it.
- h2odragon 5y agoMany disagree. As to "company man" ... Watch "Mars Attacks!" for the best portrayal of Colin Powell to hit the big screen.
- merpnderp 5y agoDo they disagree with any arguments, or just wishful thinking? My Lai and the UN are just the most glaring examples of him putting his career before everything else. I still don't understand how a person who tried to cover up (in the most laughably inept manner) the massacre of civilians by the US Army didn't spend the rest of his life as a pariah, let alone get positive press in the media for decades. Then add in his lying to the UN to start a war and you wonder if there's no crime that can't be forgiven as long as that person supports the powers that be.
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- throwaway59553 5y agoLiar and an accomplice in the death of so many. I am sure he hasn't profited from any Military contract, or the influence he had from the office he occupied.
- mxdx 5y agoMy favorite republican :(
- preach 5y agoRest In Peace. Thank you for putting up a black banner for Mr. Powell. Very appropriate.
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- abbassi 5y agoOne of the criminals of the war has died!
- Ekaros 5y agoSadly the easy way out. Should have been jail...
- pmarreck 5y agoIf there's one thing I hope we learn from him, it should be "never lie to support starting a war"
- ekianjo 5y agoLet's also not forget that he was not alone to push for the war. For younger people out there, the New York Times, of all media sources, was warmongering from Day 1.
- Kafkish 5y agoNot just the NYT. Every major news org, including right-wing radio shows, were beating the drums of war. If you were against the war effort, like I was, you were called "anti-American".
- Anthony-G 5y agoFrom what I can remember, the notable exception was Knight Ridder¹ who drew a lot of flak for investigating the fabricated stories being used to justify attacking Iraq. In Ireland, the major media outlets accepted (mostly, uncritically) the claims of the neo-cons (I don’t remember them treating seriously the reports of UN weapons inspectors who were actually on the ground in Iraq). The only dissenting voice I remember in the mainstream media was Robert Fisk, writing for the British Independent. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Ridder#Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Ridder#Iraq_War
- 1cvmask 5y agoThere is a comedy skit in the Dave Chappelle show called the Racial Draft where the “whites” draft Colin Powell and Condolezza Rice as one of their own: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3wUD3AZg4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3wUD3AZg4 https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2004-02-24-0402230109-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2004-02-24-04022301...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoRest in peace patriot.
- aazaa 5y agoOriginal title: "Colin Powell, military leader and first Black US secretary of state, dies after complications from Covid-19" From the article: > "We have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great American," they said, noting he was fully vaccinated. The ongoing high profile, fatal breakthrough Covid-19 cases should not be underestimated. They are to be expected statistically, but taken individually continue to feed into the idea that "vaccines don't work" and conspiracy theories.
- 015a 5y agoI hate that phrase: "They are to be expected" I expect better. I expect a vaccine that would have saved Colin's life.
- sundvor 5y agoWith ~90% efficacy, how do you expect that to work when rolling the dice thousands of times? It's a heck of a lot better than none. And sadly people still don't care to treat Covid seriously, and nowhere near high enough vaccination rates in most places - thus no herd protection yet.
- ekianjo 5y ago> With ~90% efficacy, how do you expect that to work when rolling the dice thousands of times? The data shows we are very far from 90% efficacy with the Delta variant. > in a report released from the Ministry of Health in Israel, the effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39%, substantially lower than the trial efficacy of 96% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#CR6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#CR6
- heartbreak 5y agoIf you think the mRNA vaccines aren’t the best we can do right now, then why don’t you use that deep knowledge of vaccine development and make one yourself?
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- noasaservice 5y agoGood riddance. I will not grieve for a war criminal.
- uberman 5y agoI see many people here hating on Colin Powell and perhaps there is cause for that. In my opinion though, I will remember him an uncommonly principled man. Did he have party loyalties? Sure. Did they sometimes conflict with his personal views? Sure. I'll admit that there were some disappointments. However, his ultimate ability to break with powerful past loyalties that conflicted with his personal views and to speak publicly about this schism makes him a hero in my opinion. Though he was a staunch republican at the time, there was a brief moment in my life, when members of both political parties hoped he might run for president under their banner. I don't think that can be said of any other modern figure.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 1cvmask 5y agoWar-making is a bipartisan cause. Those against war are considered extreme and fringe
- Kafkish 5y agoThe key phrase back then was "anti-American". And if you criticized GW when he was leading those war efforts, you were guilty of treason. At least that was what Dick Cheney said.
- OneTimePetes 5y agoWhat good is frail old man, coming out of the fog of war too late and muttering partial regrets? Does it revive the dead? Rebuild the cities? Heal any wounds or wash toxins from the jungle? The words of the living past to the present are as worthless as the symbolic actions of the left against past injustices, while ignoring the present ones.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago> I will remember him an uncommonly principled man... Might as well say the same of Stalin, Kissinger, Mauo Te sing, ... He literally lied out his ass his entire career, starting with the report on the 1968 Mai Lai massacre ... where he basically white washed and probably strong-armed the media to cover it up, since nobody would touch it for nearly a year until a journalist just blasted it out to as many newspapers as he possibly could reach and like 50 published it, and then bigger publications followed. Otherwise we'd maybe never know of the atrocities we committed during vietnam by massacering women and children. I'd really hate to meet someone you think is an unprincipled man, because honestly I'd hate to meet this guy you think is 'uncommonly principled'.
- emptyfile 5y agoA million dead civilians. All that blood is on America as a whole, but this guy's hands are as bloody as they can be. Reading these comments it seems America has forgiven him... I assure you the rest of the world won't forget...
- trasz 5y agoAmericans don't seem to have a problem with war crimes, as long as it's their military who commits them. Even Russia seems more modest in this regard - when they down a passenger airliner, at least they don't pretend it was the right thing to do and don't proudly decorate the perpetrators.
- bradlys 5y ago> Reading these comments it seems America has forgiven him... I assure you the rest of the world won't forget... People working the “defense industry” (you know - making weapons to kill millions of innocent civilians) are just showing up in this thread a lot. This guy is the reason they have their jobs. Colin Powell is a piece of shit to anyone who doesn’t work in that sector. Dude straight up lied and got entire states worth of people murdered all for his own vanity.
- woodpanel 5y ago[flagged]
- timbit42 5y agoHe was already in hospital suffering from multiple melanoma which is a cancer that compromises your immune system. No wonder the vaccine didn't save him. It sounds like he contracted COVID while in hospital.
- geofft 5y agoYeah, it's a pretty deadly disease. Vaccines work by preparing your body to fight a disease more easily if you get it. They don't physically prevent you from getting it in the first place (that's the effect of physical barriers - distance, masks, etc. - as well as a secondary effect of other people being vaccinated and having reduced viral loads and coughing less). Your body still has to fight off the infection with its antibodies, and the infection is still going through your system. Healthy people in their 20s and 30s with breakthrough infections tend to report that they get a mild fever and maybe need to take a couple days off from work - which is a lot better than going to the hospital and getting on a ventilator because your body has no idea what to do. A fever is part of the body's immune response. When you're 84 years old and you previously had multiple myeloma, which affects your white blood cells, this process may not work as well and the resulting "mild" fever can seriously weaken you. So can many other things that the much younger can brush off; they usually get lumped under "natural causes."
- nradov 5y agoI encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but even without vaccination only a tiny fraction of cases among healthy people in their 20s and 30s get on ventilators. The CDC estimated the hospitalization rate in the 18-49 age group at 2.5%. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd... The majority of those hospitalized cases aren't really "healthy". Most suffer from serious co-morbid conditions such as obesity or diabetes. https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-children-in-covid-icus-are-overweight-but-public-health-officials-rarely-talk-about-obesity https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precaut... And only a small fraction of hospitalized cases are treated with mechanical ventilation. It's considered a salvage treatment when all other treatments have failed. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/nhcs/intubation-ventilator-use.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/nhcs/intubation-ventilator-...
- ThinkBeat 5y agoI thought of him as a dedicated and intelligent general who got things done and done right. I was even hoping he would run for president. All that changed when he outright lied to the world and the nearly unimageable suffering he in part, brought to people.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago> All that changed when he outright lied to the world and the nearly unimageable suffering he in part, brought to people. Which time? Iraq, or when he tried to hide/white-wash/coverup the Mai Lai massacre back in 1968? I'm not religious but I think I recall a scripture or maybe just a quote: By their actions ye shall know them... that early career move, definitely showed you who this guy was.
- eric_b 5y agoSome truly wild comments in this thread. The moral self-righteousness of the commenters here is really something to behold. I'm particularly saddened by so many of the obviously partisan comments. From my recollection it was Barack Obama who continued the conflict in Afghanistan and was responsible for scores of extra-judicial assassinations throughout the world. And while many people died in the Afghanistan conflict and it was a terrible tragedy, the silver lining was that many women gained new liberties. Education wasn't just for men, for awhile. Of course Joe Biden put a stop to that, didn't he? Colin Powell did plenty of bad things, but the same folks crucifying him probably have a copy of "Dreams from my Father" in their library and have absolved the equally complicit left-leaning politicians of any crimes. Every single national politician is a self-interested, amoral, shit-bag. Lionizing one side while pillorying the other is not helpful. All politicians should have less power, less influence and less money, across the board. Only then will things get better.
- rajamaka 5y agoYour argument is that Powell should not be criticised because whataboutism?
- gremlinsinc 5y agoI've crucified him plenty, and I'd do the same for Obama as he's responsible for countless drone strikes, and setup the cages at the border, which Trump only made worse... I'd also do it for Biden or Trump.... they all are as evil as each other. The less or two evils bullshit is a dark dark road. Haven't had a decent President since Jimmy Carter, and JFK before him, and then FDR, Eisenhower, Truman regardless of party they all were more progressive than half the progressive caucus of the democrats now... even the right wanted universal healthcare at one point...now it's taboo. Edit: Jimmy Carter was decent as a person, very moral, he didn't necessarily get much accomplished, but he's the last President I respect after JFK.
- lowkey_ 5y agoThis is one of many obituary posts on HN I've seen a ton of hate and accusations on, along with questions like "why does everyone venerate the dead regardless of their acts in life?" Some of us have a different threshold than others for at what point a life is valuable, and the loss of that life tragic. While there can be a time and place for discussions of the 2003 UN performance, calling someone a war criminal, ragging on our military, and so forth — this is really the absolute last place for you to take out those grievances. There's always plenty of other threads, and you can create your own. There's an old adage of "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." I don't generally believe that, and in fact HN's willingness to lay valid and accurate criticism is one of its best qualities, but attached to news of a person's death — a controversial person even — is the last place it belongs.
- bjoli 5y agoI have no real bone in this fight, buf if someone sincerely believe Colin Powell was a war criminal I am not sure I can blame them for expressing it. I have seen war criminals be celebrated after their death, and I found it disgraceful and disgusting. If they indeed are, then they should be remembered as such. I have a couple of people that I wont have the dignity to shut up about when they die, because I want them remembered for the crooks they are.
- marricks 5y agoNo an obituary and discussions of a person’s passing must take into account their failings, especially their greatest ones. Otherwise we will begin to forget those mistakes and be doomed to repeat. In particular the failings that lead up to the Iraq war are common place in US history so every effort must be made to remember and be wary of such mistakes (or lies rather).
- lowkey_ 5y agoThat belongs in the history books, Wikipedia pages, and retrospectives of one's life. History will not repeat itself because you didn't properly and fully disparage a person beneath the news of their passing in a little-known internet news forum.
- jl6 5y agoTo help keep things grounded, here’s the UN’s definition of war crime: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml Before throwing around the accusation of “war criminal”, take a look and try to determine which crime the accused committed. A politician lying on a grave matter may be reprehensible or even unforgivable, but let’s not debase language with undue exaggeration.
- NoGravitas 5y ago8.2.b.iv.: Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
- jl6 5y agoThe point of that one is “clearly excessive”, not just the intentional launching of an attack.
- sofixa 5y agoCrime agaist peace, even the US Army field manual states it's a war crime, for civilians nd miligary people alike.
- gadders 5y agoI read his autobiography, and one of the saddest parts (as a Brit) was that he had the chance to emigrate to the UK and join the British army, but he thought if he did that the highest he would realistically rise would Regimental Sergeant Major (basically not even an officer).
- nickthemagicman 5y agoI find it very disengenuous for the news media to claim he died of Covid when he had multiple myeloma and was on heavy doses of chemo which damaged his immune immune system. The NYTimes has been the only source I've seen reporting this correctly.
- trasz 5y agoToo bad this PoS never got justice served. Still, he's dead now, so the world is a tiny bit better place now.
- DoItToMe81 5y agoHe's playing poker with Hitler in hell lol