6 ms·

The disappearance of the world’s greatest free diver (2015)

48 points by Anon84 5y ago

mkmk 5y ago
(2015)
tromp 5y ago
Recent discussion on her son Alexey Molchanov, the currently greatest free diver: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367
hprotagonist 5y ago
Her son is now breaking records left and right: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 But for some reason, i thought of beowulf, on the sea-burial of Scyld: "/ Men cannot say wise men in hall / nor warriors in the field not truly, / who received that cargo"
praveshjain 5y ago
It's disturbing how casual the tone of this article is.
- pachico 5y ago
  I was feeling the same
- jrm4 5y ago
  Not really? I mean, of course everyone has their own reaction to these things and I don't want to deny anyone else their emotions... But I mean, this seems like precisely part of the game. Dangerous things are dangerous. It's a tragedy in that all early deaths are tragedies, but nothing shocking here.
freediver 5y ago
I was a competitive freediver and have lost friends in this sport. Freediving is one of the most dangerous yet most rewarding sports out there. It connects us to something deep with carry inside ourselves as we all evolved from water. Being able to reach 100m (or even 200m in no-limits competition) on a single breath of air, and be able to withstand crushing pressures is an extraordinary feat for a human body and is akin to dolphins. (I personally competed in pools and reached "only" 30m depth in the open sea albeit with just a mask on). This tragic event happened in 2015. In 2002 same faith happened to Audrey Mestre, which was captured (with controversy) in her husband Francisco "Pipin" Ferreras's book The Dive: https://www.amazon.com/Dive-Story-Love-Obsession/dp/B000GG4GD0 https://www.amazon.com/Dive-Story-Love-Obsession/dp/B000GG4G... It is a story of great love and Audrey following her husbdand's footsteps (a world champion freediver) into the world of freediving only to become a world class freediver herself until this tragic event took place. https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125625&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125625&page=1 https://www.deeperblue.com/the-last-attempt/ https://www.deeperblue.com/the-last-attempt/ For those new to freediving, I warmly recommend watching Luc Besson's masterpiece "The Big Blue": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095250/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095250/ For beginner freedivers I recommend reading "Manual of Freediving" by Umberto Pelizzari: https://www.amazon.it/Manual-Freediving-Underwater-Single-Breath/dp/1928649483 https://www.amazon.it/Manual-Freediving-Underwater-Single-Br...
- alexjplant 5y ago
  "The Big Blue" is a timeless masterpiece and one of my favorite films of all time. The ethereal photography and soundtrack create an otherworldly vibe without veering too far into Lynchian surrealism. Luc Besson is probably better-known for his later action films ("The Professional", "The Fifth Element", etc) but "The Big Blue" is his magnum opus IMHO.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  > It connects us to something deep with carry inside ourselves as we all evolved from water. Could you elaborate on this? I'm not seeing the logical connection.
  - 5y ago
poulpy123 5y ago
For me it will always be Jacques Mayol
giantg2 5y ago
Sounds like tech could be used to increase safety. How about a mask with emergency oxygen that detects when you pass out and administers the oxygen? Maybe location beacons similar to tacking undersea animals?
- frenchy 5y ago
  I suspect that main problem is that it would be contrary to the spirit of the sport. It would probably also difficult to actually get working properly.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I don't know if it would really be contrary to the spirit of the sport. The mask would only provide oxygen if passed out. I'm also not talking about big bottles, but just small cartridges of a couple hundred grams. Just enough to provide some oxygen and block water from the airway. It would might not be enough to regain consciousness, but hopefully enough time keep them alive while the spotter/rescue swimmer gets to them (I guess it wouldn't help in this scenario, but it's not good practice to dive without support). The weight could count towards their normal limit. Plus, they already use gear like goggles, wet suits, etc so it's not like a complete paradigm shift. Yeah it wouldn't be easy, but you could maybe use an EEG lead, read diver mouth/eye/face state via cameras built into the mask, or something else. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with more physiological knowledge knows of some involuntary signs/actions that occur when one loses consciousness.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      A deadman's switch between two fingers or maybe in the mouth might work.
- hardwaregeek 5y ago
  Yeah or like an arm canister of oxygen. I get that the sport is supposed to be dangerous but we've taken dangerous sports and made them less dangerous before. It's not a huge loss.
saeranv 5y ago
Fascinating (and kind of depressing) that the "attention deconcentration" technique she used to become a world-class athlete was originally developed in Russia for people who held very boring jobs. > Molchanova’s technique for concentration was based on a procedure she called attention deconcentration. She said it came from ancient warriors and was used by samurai, and that in Russia it had been adapted and developed for people who held very boring jobs. It involved moving one’s attention to the periphery of one’s awareness, against the imperative of the eye, which is trained to focus. It was a form of meditation. As one advanced into it, the left cerebral hemisphere, which deals with words, grew quiet. This allowed parts of the mind and body more resistant to the frightening stresses of free diving to take over.
- rramadass 5y ago
  "Attention-Deconstruction" is actually from old "Awareness" meditation techniques from ancient Hinduism/Buddhism texts. One well-known text is the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tan...
- DennisP 5y ago
  It sounds a lot like the "open focus" training developed by the Princeton Biofeedback Center: https://openfocus.com/ https://openfocus.com/ I've done a fair amount of this. Also I've taken courses in primitive wilderness survival that emphasized a similar use of attention, though without using the same techniques as Princeton.
  - nefitty 5y ago
    What sorts of activities do you use this for? For example, most relevant to me, would it be conducive to programming or other technical work?
    - rramadass 5y ago
      http://deconcentration-of-attention.com/deconcentration-software.html http://deconcentration-of-attention.com/deconcentration-soft...
BitAstronaut 5y ago
This sent me down a dark hole and I found this video that I thought I'd share.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qM1IEhtNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qM1IEhtNQ
- freediver 5y ago
  Fascinating film! "Danger is always beautiful. Like a star."
KennyBlanken 5y ago
> Typically, free divers have spotters, who wait beneath the surface during a dive, but she was the only experienced diver among the group she was with, so there were no spotters. Especially with a rich client, there was no excuse for not having a safety (scuba) diver in the water. Complacency will get you, every time.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  It reads more like she had just finished teaching some amateurs, and she decided to go for a very deep dive for fun, and it went wrong.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Scuba divers are pretty useless as safety divers due to practical constraints on depth, down time, and ascent time. For example, compressed air becomes toxic to breath below 130 feet, has a bottom time of a few minutes at this depth. Due to the compression of the gas, scuba also requires slow ascent and decompression stops for safety. In comparison, Natalia Molchanova could dive to 330 ft, well below the depth of recreational and most technical diving.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
david422 5y ago
Raising the Dead: A True Story of Death and Survival by Philip Finch is a book that does a good job detailing the perils of diving.
yesimahuman 5y ago
I've casually free dove all my life (not to any significant depth), and I was shocked to hear that blackouts can happen even at shallow depths. I definitely have a lot more respect for this sport and will avoid doing it alone in the future.
- spearo77 5y ago
  Shallow water blackout is a phenomenon that occurs when lungs expand while ascending from a deep dive. The contrast from deep to shallow is what's dangerous. Oxygen is rapidly pulled out of your bloodstream back into your lungs as they expand. It happens quickly (and unexpectedly if you're not already aware of it). Of course you can stay too long at a shallow depth, but that's a simple, predictable linear exhaustion of oxygen.
  - yesimahuman 5y ago
    Good to know! Thanks for the knowledge
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jwatt 5y ago
  I also only recently became aware of this after seeing a video of it happening[1]. No more diving alone for me sadly. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQ64NNkaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQ64NNkaro
niknoble 5y ago
Shouldn't the title read "World's greatest female free diver?" since her records are well below the mens' records? Maybe they mean that, even though she doesn't have the best results in an absolute sense, she has achieved more than anyone relative to her potential. But if we're judging relative to potential, then we also have to consider all the people who pushed themselves to their limits but were not able to set any records due to physical limitations. Who is the best freediver less than 5 feet tall? Who is the best freediver with a naturally low lung capacity? And then the question seems silly, since we could never take all of these people into account. I assume the title is intentionally provocative and provokes this question in almost every reader. But no one has mentioned it here, so I figured I would be the one to call it out explicitly.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I think it is meant to be a subjective statement of opinion, as she no longer holds any depths records in the women's classes either.
dang 5y ago
Discussed at the time: The Disappearance of the World’s Greatest Free Diver - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10027307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10027307 - Aug 2015 (54 comments)

48 points by Anon84 5y ago

mkmk 5y ago

(2015)

Recent discussion on her son Alexey Molchanov, the currently greatest free diver: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367

hprotagonist 5y ago

Her son is now breaking records left and right: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28652367 But for some reason, i thought of beowulf, on the sea-burial of Scyld: "/ Men cannot say wise men in hall / nor warriors in the field not truly, / who received that cargo"

praveshjain 5y ago

It's disturbing how casual the tone of this article is.

pachico 5y ago
I was feeling the same
jrm4 5y ago
Not really? I mean, of course everyone has their own reaction to these things and I don't want to deny anyone else their emotions... But I mean, this seems like precisely part of the game. Dangerous things are dangerous. It's a tragedy in that all early deaths are tragedies, but nothing shocking here.

freediver 5y ago

I was a competitive freediver and have lost friends in this sport. Freediving is one of the most dangerous yet most rewarding sports out there. It connects us to something deep with carry inside ourselves as we all evolved from water. Being able to reach 100m (or even 200m in no-limits competition) on a single breath of air, and be able to withstand crushing pressures is an extraordinary feat for a human body and is akin to dolphins. (I personally competed in pools and reached "only" 30m depth in the open sea albeit with just a mask on). This tragic event happened in 2015. In 2002 same faith happened to Audrey Mestre, which was captured (with controversy) in her husband Francisco "Pipin" Ferreras's book The Dive: https://www.amazon.com/Dive-Story-Love-Obsession/dp/B000GG4GD0 https://www.amazon.com/Dive-Story-Love-Obsession/dp/B000GG4G... It is a story of great love and Audrey following her husbdand's footsteps (a world champion freediver) into the world of freediving only to become a world class freediver herself until this tragic event took place. https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125625&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125625&page=1 https://www.deeperblue.com/the-last-attempt/ https://www.deeperblue.com/the-last-attempt/ For those new to freediving, I warmly recommend watching Luc Besson's masterpiece "The Big Blue": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095250/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095250/ For beginner freedivers I recommend reading "Manual of Freediving" by Umberto Pelizzari: https://www.amazon.it/Manual-Freediving-Underwater-Single-Breath/dp/1928649483 https://www.amazon.it/Manual-Freediving-Underwater-Single-Br...

alexjplant 5y ago
"The Big Blue" is a timeless masterpiece and one of my favorite films of all time. The ethereal photography and soundtrack create an otherworldly vibe without veering too far into Lynchian surrealism. Luc Besson is probably better-known for his later action films ("The Professional", "The Fifth Element", etc) but "The Big Blue" is his magnum opus IMHO.
CoastalCoder 5y ago
> It connects us to something deep with carry inside ourselves as we all evolved from water. Could you elaborate on this? I'm not seeing the logical connection.
- 5y ago

poulpy123 5y ago

For me it will always be Jacques Mayol

giantg2 5y ago

Sounds like tech could be used to increase safety. How about a mask with emergency oxygen that detects when you pass out and administers the oxygen? Maybe location beacons similar to tacking undersea animals?

frenchy 5y ago
I suspect that main problem is that it would be contrary to the spirit of the sport. It would probably also difficult to actually get working properly.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I don't know if it would really be contrary to the spirit of the sport. The mask would only provide oxygen if passed out. I'm also not talking about big bottles, but just small cartridges of a couple hundred grams. Just enough to provide some oxygen and block water from the airway. It would might not be enough to regain consciousness, but hopefully enough time keep them alive while the spotter/rescue swimmer gets to them (I guess it wouldn't help in this scenario, but it's not good practice to dive without support). The weight could count towards their normal limit. Plus, they already use gear like goggles, wet suits, etc so it's not like a complete paradigm shift. Yeah it wouldn't be easy, but you could maybe use an EEG lead, read diver mouth/eye/face state via cameras built into the mask, or something else. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with more physiological knowledge knows of some involuntary signs/actions that occur when one loses consciousness.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    A deadman's switch between two fingers or maybe in the mouth might work.
hardwaregeek 5y ago
Yeah or like an arm canister of oxygen. I get that the sport is supposed to be dangerous but we've taken dangerous sports and made them less dangerous before. It's not a huge loss.

saeranv 5y ago

Fascinating (and kind of depressing) that the "attention deconcentration" technique she used to become a world-class athlete was originally developed in Russia for people who held very boring jobs. > Molchanova’s technique for concentration was based on a procedure she called attention deconcentration. She said it came from ancient warriors and was used by samurai, and that in Russia it had been adapted and developed for people who held very boring jobs. It involved moving one’s attention to the periphery of one’s awareness, against the imperative of the eye, which is trained to focus. It was a form of meditation. As one advanced into it, the left cerebral hemisphere, which deals with words, grew quiet. This allowed parts of the mind and body more resistant to the frightening stresses of free diving to take over.

rramadass 5y ago
"Attention-Deconstruction" is actually from old "Awareness" meditation techniques from ancient Hinduism/Buddhism texts. One well-known text is the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tan...
DennisP 5y ago
It sounds a lot like the "open focus" training developed by the Princeton Biofeedback Center: https://openfocus.com/ https://openfocus.com/ I've done a fair amount of this. Also I've taken courses in primitive wilderness survival that emphasized a similar use of attention, though without using the same techniques as Princeton.
- nefitty 5y ago
  What sorts of activities do you use this for? For example, most relevant to me, would it be conducive to programming or other technical work?
  - rramadass 5y ago
    http://deconcentration-of-attention.com/deconcentration-software.html http://deconcentration-of-attention.com/deconcentration-soft...

BitAstronaut 5y ago

This sent me down a dark hole and I found this video that I thought I'd share.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qM1IEhtNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qM1IEhtNQ

freediver 5y ago
Fascinating film! "Danger is always beautiful. Like a star."

KennyBlanken 5y ago

> Typically, free divers have spotters, who wait beneath the surface during a dive, but she was the only experienced diver among the group she was with, so there were no spotters. Especially with a rich client, there was no excuse for not having a safety (scuba) diver in the water. Complacency will get you, every time.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
It reads more like she had just finished teaching some amateurs, and she decided to go for a very deep dive for fun, and it went wrong.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
Scuba divers are pretty useless as safety divers due to practical constraints on depth, down time, and ascent time. For example, compressed air becomes toxic to breath below 130 feet, has a bottom time of a few minutes at this depth. Due to the compression of the gas, scuba also requires slow ascent and decompression stops for safety. In comparison, Natalia Molchanova could dive to 330 ft, well below the depth of recreational and most technical diving.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

david422 5y ago

Raising the Dead: A True Story of Death and Survival by Philip Finch is a book that does a good job detailing the perils of diving.

yesimahuman 5y ago

I've casually free dove all my life (not to any significant depth), and I was shocked to hear that blackouts can happen even at shallow depths. I definitely have a lot more respect for this sport and will avoid doing it alone in the future.

spearo77 5y ago
Shallow water blackout is a phenomenon that occurs when lungs expand while ascending from a deep dive. The contrast from deep to shallow is what's dangerous. Oxygen is rapidly pulled out of your bloodstream back into your lungs as they expand. It happens quickly (and unexpectedly if you're not already aware of it). Of course you can stay too long at a shallow depth, but that's a simple, predictable linear exhaustion of oxygen.
- yesimahuman 5y ago
  Good to know! Thanks for the knowledge
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jwatt 5y ago
I also only recently became aware of this after seeing a video of it happening[1]. No more diving alone for me sadly. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQ64NNkaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQ64NNkaro

niknoble 5y ago

Shouldn't the title read "World's greatest female free diver?" since her records are well below the mens' records? Maybe they mean that, even though she doesn't have the best results in an absolute sense, she has achieved more than anyone relative to her potential. But if we're judging relative to potential, then we also have to consider all the people who pushed themselves to their limits but were not able to set any records due to physical limitations. Who is the best freediver less than 5 feet tall? Who is the best freediver with a naturally low lung capacity? And then the question seems silly, since we could never take all of these people into account. I assume the title is intentionally provocative and provokes this question in almost every reader. But no one has mentioned it here, so I figured I would be the one to call it out explicitly.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
I think it is meant to be a subjective statement of opinion, as she no longer holds any depths records in the women's classes either.

dang 5y ago

Discussed at the time: The Disappearance of the World’s Greatest Free Diver - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10027307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10027307 - Aug 2015 (54 comments)