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Learning is not a leisure activity. I'm not saying it can't be fun or engaging or a great pastime but it requires as much focus if not more than work. It also r

Learning is not a leisure activity. I'm not saying it can't be fun or engaging or a great pastime but it requires as much focus if not more than work. It also requires constant attention (even if its in small amounts). It gives people a feeling of accomplishment and purpose but it is no way relaxing. I am sort of tired of these articles about procrastination, etc that equate like watching a movie and going to the gym or hiking. The activities aren't in the same realm at all. Basically shaming people for sitting around doing nothing with your brain off. I don't think you should be living your life like that all the time, but having an hour or two of straight mindlessness is not a bad thing. Pushing yourself to always be doing the activities you "should" do because some online guru says thats the right way to spend your time leads to burnout too.

kqr 5y ago
And to nobody's surprise, it turns out humans are different from each other. Learning is for me one of the highest forms of leisure. But I know not everyone feels that way.
stavros 5y ago
> Learning is not a leisure activity. I disagree with that. I agree with the rest of your comment, there's nothing wrong with turning your brain off for however long you want, but leisure doesn't have to mean "turning your brain off". I program for leisure because that's what I like to do.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  Do you do it after working for 8 hours though? I sometimes do it on the weekend, mainly because then I can program in new and more interesting areas. But after work feels impossible, I just don't want to sit in front of the computer still.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Yeah, I'll regularly finish work and continue programming for a few more hours. I like it a lot. Not always, of course, but not rarely either.
  - saurik 5y ago
    I definitely tend to spend all my waking hours in front of a computer coding. If I am going to do something other than coding I would prefer to allocate an entire day to it than bother with a coding session that isn't going to benefit from the flow state that comes from coding for 16 hours straight. (Maybe you just hate your job? I work for myself.)
    - badpun 5y ago
      You’ve been able to sustain this over how many years?
      - saurik 5y ago
        FWIW, I turn 40 next month, which is apparently "old" in this field. With the exception of a few months in grad school when I became so utterly demoralized by how all of the software we use on a daily basis is horrible and I quit computers entirely (even doing a "powerpoint presentation" using physical cellophane slides that I carefully drew to look like a stereotypical powerpoint presentation with markers) I have kept up my excitement to use and program computers until the whee hours of the morning for three decades.
    - momirlan 5y ago
      It seems what you do is work, not "mindlessly surfing the internet". No need to worry, carry on.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    I could easily program after my previous jobs (small teams, relaxed atmosphere), but at my current job (large enterprise, constant crunch) it’s impossible. I’m just mentally done when I come home. I think about programming anything and my brain just screams No!.
agumonkey 5y ago
Maybe there's a pedagogical setup where learning becomes .. smooth. What's hard is grokking very different and abstract notions in one go. But if someone can walk you slowly through fun smaller instances of it, let your brain adapt (<= maybe 80% of learning) in a happy mood, then come back the day after to do that again. Which puts the pressure on the environment (reminiscent of people saying focus on the process not the results). Everything can be insufferably hard when approached the wrong way, vice versa.
seaman1921 5y ago
I found the article useful, maybe it is not for everyone but I would try to use some of the tips to reduce the mindless surfing time. Eg. today I mindlessly surf for 2 hours, but maybe I do that for 20 minutes and then take a 15 minute walk - that might recharge me the same amount but still give me time to do something healthier or more mindful in the remaining time.
marginalia_nu 5y ago
I think it depends on what you consider work. For a lot of people doing manual labor, learning can absolutely be a leisure activity. It is a refreshing way to relax your tired body while stimulating a restless mind. If you spend your days in an office, then going to the gym and doing deadlifts may feel like a leisure activity. It conversely allows you to relax your tired mind while stimulating a restless body. What constitutes relaxation is dependent on what part of you needs to rest.
peterkelly 5y ago
> Learning is not a leisure activity Depends on what you're learning. My main non-scrolling hobby is music. Parts of learning to play better are hard work that require conscious effort, but the majority of time I spend on it is practice, which I find to be very relaxing and fun. I imagine the same is true for lots of other hobbies.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > Parts of learning to play better are hard work that require conscious effort, but the majority of time I spend on it is practice If you practice without conscious effort then you aren't practicing, you are just playing and almost surely isn't improving. There is a reason hobbyist stop improving early and then never improve even after years or even decades of practice, it is because they spend their quality focus and effort on their job rather than their hobby and therefore can't improve like professionals who gets paid to focus on it.
  - peterkelly 5y ago
    > If you practice without conscious effort then you aren't practicing, you are just playing and almost surely isn't improving This is true to an extent, but at least with music there's sort of a spectrum of difficult -> automatic (i.e. hard work -> pleasure) as you build up muscle memory. I played piano for many, many years without making conscious effort to improve, and, like you described, I didn't get any better. Once I decided to get serious and start taking lessons again things changed; it gave me an external incentive to make progress each fortnight and practice daily. There's an element of it that feels like pressure at first (its easier and more tempting to play something I already know than to work on a new song/exercise), but once I get the basics of it right and enter the phase of repeated practice to improve, that's where the fun part comes which I genuinely enjoy. With a bit of practice it becomes automatic and I can just enjoy the process and experiment with whatever comes into my mind (this is with jazz, not sure how it applies to other genres) I find it an extremely therapeutic experience.
badpun 5y ago
> but having an hour or two of straight mindlessness is not a bad thing I am sorry, but in my mind, if it’s only an hour or two per day on average, then you’re still a robot.
vinay_ys 5y ago
At some point in life, usually when we see people around us dying of age-related or chronic illness, we start giving importance to our physical health – usually the heart, liver, kidney, joints etc. If we think of the brain/mind as another critical organ, then we should start caring for it similarly but it is hard to spot chronic illness of the mind around us. Mental health is important – now what constitutes good mental health regime is under considerable debate. But nevertheless, if we care enough to proactively do something about it, it is already better than nothing.
ren_engineer 5y ago
>learning is not a leisure activity depends on what you are learning, I can casually watch documentaries or YT videos about a topic and still take away some facts with moderate focus when I'm tired after working all day. On the other hand if I'm trying to learn something really technically/conceptually complex I need a fresh mind and full focus on the task

kqr 5y ago

And to nobody's surprise, it turns out humans are different from each other. Learning is for me one of the highest forms of leisure. But I know not everyone feels that way.

stavros 5y ago

> Learning is not a leisure activity. I disagree with that. I agree with the rest of your comment, there's nothing wrong with turning your brain off for however long you want, but leisure doesn't have to mean "turning your brain off". I program for leisure because that's what I like to do.

nivenkos 5y ago
Do you do it after working for 8 hours though? I sometimes do it on the weekend, mainly because then I can program in new and more interesting areas. But after work feels impossible, I just don't want to sit in front of the computer still.
- stavros 5y ago
  Yeah, I'll regularly finish work and continue programming for a few more hours. I like it a lot. Not always, of course, but not rarely either.
- saurik 5y ago
  I definitely tend to spend all my waking hours in front of a computer coding. If I am going to do something other than coding I would prefer to allocate an entire day to it than bother with a coding session that isn't going to benefit from the flow state that comes from coding for 16 hours straight. (Maybe you just hate your job? I work for myself.)
  - badpun 5y ago
    You’ve been able to sustain this over how many years?
    - saurik 5y ago
      FWIW, I turn 40 next month, which is apparently "old" in this field. With the exception of a few months in grad school when I became so utterly demoralized by how all of the software we use on a daily basis is horrible and I quit computers entirely (even doing a "powerpoint presentation" using physical cellophane slides that I carefully drew to look like a stereotypical powerpoint presentation with markers) I have kept up my excitement to use and program computers until the whee hours of the morning for three decades.
  - momirlan 5y ago
    It seems what you do is work, not "mindlessly surfing the internet". No need to worry, carry on.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  I could easily program after my previous jobs (small teams, relaxed atmosphere), but at my current job (large enterprise, constant crunch) it’s impossible. I’m just mentally done when I come home. I think about programming anything and my brain just screams No!.

agumonkey 5y ago

Maybe there's a pedagogical setup where learning becomes .. smooth. What's hard is grokking very different and abstract notions in one go. But if someone can walk you slowly through fun smaller instances of it, let your brain adapt (<= maybe 80% of learning) in a happy mood, then come back the day after to do that again. Which puts the pressure on the environment (reminiscent of people saying focus on the process not the results). Everything can be insufferably hard when approached the wrong way, vice versa.

seaman1921 5y ago

I found the article useful, maybe it is not for everyone but I would try to use some of the tips to reduce the mindless surfing time. Eg. today I mindlessly surf for 2 hours, but maybe I do that for 20 minutes and then take a 15 minute walk - that might recharge me the same amount but still give me time to do something healthier or more mindful in the remaining time.

marginalia_nu 5y ago

I think it depends on what you consider work. For a lot of people doing manual labor, learning can absolutely be a leisure activity. It is a refreshing way to relax your tired body while stimulating a restless mind. If you spend your days in an office, then going to the gym and doing deadlifts may feel like a leisure activity. It conversely allows you to relax your tired mind while stimulating a restless body. What constitutes relaxation is dependent on what part of you needs to rest.

peterkelly 5y ago

> Learning is not a leisure activity Depends on what you're learning. My main non-scrolling hobby is music. Parts of learning to play better are hard work that require conscious effort, but the majority of time I spend on it is practice, which I find to be very relaxing and fun. I imagine the same is true for lots of other hobbies.

Jensson 5y ago
> Parts of learning to play better are hard work that require conscious effort, but the majority of time I spend on it is practice If you practice without conscious effort then you aren't practicing, you are just playing and almost surely isn't improving. There is a reason hobbyist stop improving early and then never improve even after years or even decades of practice, it is because they spend their quality focus and effort on their job rather than their hobby and therefore can't improve like professionals who gets paid to focus on it.
- peterkelly 5y ago
  > If you practice without conscious effort then you aren't practicing, you are just playing and almost surely isn't improving This is true to an extent, but at least with music there's sort of a spectrum of difficult -> automatic (i.e. hard work -> pleasure) as you build up muscle memory. I played piano for many, many years without making conscious effort to improve, and, like you described, I didn't get any better. Once I decided to get serious and start taking lessons again things changed; it gave me an external incentive to make progress each fortnight and practice daily. There's an element of it that feels like pressure at first (its easier and more tempting to play something I already know than to work on a new song/exercise), but once I get the basics of it right and enter the phase of repeated practice to improve, that's where the fun part comes which I genuinely enjoy. With a bit of practice it becomes automatic and I can just enjoy the process and experiment with whatever comes into my mind (this is with jazz, not sure how it applies to other genres) I find it an extremely therapeutic experience.

badpun 5y ago

> but having an hour or two of straight mindlessness is not a bad thing I am sorry, but in my mind, if it’s only an hour or two per day on average, then you’re still a robot.

vinay_ys 5y ago

At some point in life, usually when we see people around us dying of age-related or chronic illness, we start giving importance to our physical health – usually the heart, liver, kidney, joints etc. If we think of the brain/mind as another critical organ, then we should start caring for it similarly but it is hard to spot chronic illness of the mind around us. Mental health is important – now what constitutes good mental health regime is under considerable debate. But nevertheless, if we care enough to proactively do something about it, it is already better than nothing.

ren_engineer 5y ago

>learning is not a leisure activity depends on what you are learning, I can casually watch documentaries or YT videos about a topic and still take away some facts with moderate focus when I'm tired after working all day. On the other hand if I'm trying to learn something really technically/conceptually complex I need a fresh mind and full focus on the task