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Remove healthcare and retirement benefits from employers' purview, then tax employers on the difference between their wages and 1.25x the poverty line (includi

Remove healthcare and retirement benefits from employers' purview, then tax employers on the difference between their wages and 1.25x the poverty line (including the typical cost of healthcare and 5% or 10% for retirement) in the positions' primary work county at a rate like 2.5x. Basically set a floor on compensation that's liveable.

Avicebron 5y ago
Is this an abstracted healthcare and retirement for all plan or is this, give everyone more money and they can figure it out, free market deal? I'm a little confused, generally healthcare and retirement are good things to have at work, so from where I see it, everyone should get it from their employer regardless of job or you're advocating using it to disburse to a healthcare for all scenario (EDIT: via the gov't) (which I'm all for). Side Note: For whoever is not the last one to the party like me, I just listened to a fascinating podcast (bbc) on David Ricardo's impact in economic theory, and a lot of the ills of today pretty much lay at his narcissistic feet. I would highly recommend taking a deep dive into how his economic policies actually make any mathematical sense and have influenced (conscious or not, the absurdity of modern markets and by extension modern business practices). /aside.
- Glyptodon 5y ago
  Abstracted, I'm not super opinionated about private sector vs public sector health care, but I'm very opinionated about employer provided healthcare being a not good idea - it turns into a fight where employees have to follow the moral dicta of the employer even if it's not something the employee agrees with, not to mention it's obnoxious to have it change and go through COBRA or exchanges for 3 month shots every time you change jobs. And that it messes up effective cost sharing. Not to mention people who won't change jobs because they're afraid of healthcare changes or losing it. Retirement is similar - retirement benefits are used in manipulative ways by employers to make the labor market less competitive (vesting schedules, match timing and amounts, etc.). And for 401k-style plans, there's no reason your employer should decide for you which terrible high-fee investments you can use.
  - Avicebron 5y ago
    Ok, I see you're point, dealing with the obnoxious employer - healthcare provider package deal that they've come to some agreement with is very annoying, borderline dangerous in the worst case scenario. I guess I'm only opinionated on people being able to receive healthcare, irregardless. Unfortunately I think that if it's not given out by the gov't, it needs to be given out by somebody (e.g. pay the monthly fees per job etc and be able to get something when needed), I just don't think that giving people the extra money and saying "well if you're extra smart, and extra resourceful, you can figure it out actually works"...it's sad, but sometimes the best thing is an inadvertent safety net, even if some people balk at it EDIT: I think retirement is similar, for basically the same reasons, yes, we all want to be the smart free spirited libertarian, but on net..what is this some sort of darwinian contest. boring yawn
    - Glyptodon 5y ago
      In the context of this conversation, I'm not intending to suggest that people should be able to not have healthcare or retirement, just that removing them from employers makes it vastly easier to set a wage floor based on a poverty level that can include their costs and that can be full-time/part-time agnostic because there won't be such a thing as "benefits eligibility" based on whether you work 40 hours for a specific employer or not.
cto_of_antifa 5y ago
This is pretty awesome IMHO. I feel like this is the exact prescription for industry players like Walmart that ride free on a system of public benefits their employees are forced to use.
gruez 5y ago
>then tax employers on the difference between their wages and 1.25x the poverty line why not just bump the minimum wage? It's effectively the same thing.
- Glyptodon 5y ago
  It's true that in theory the results should be about the same. Now that I'm thinking about it more ADA/Texas abortion-style enforcement of a better set minimum wage might be interesting.

Avicebron 5y ago

Is this an abstracted healthcare and retirement for all plan or is this, give everyone more money and they can figure it out, free market deal? I'm a little confused, generally healthcare and retirement are good things to have at work, so from where I see it, everyone should get it from their employer regardless of job or you're advocating using it to disburse to a healthcare for all scenario (EDIT: via the gov't) (which I'm all for). Side Note: For whoever is not the last one to the party like me, I just listened to a fascinating podcast (bbc) on David Ricardo's impact in economic theory, and a lot of the ills of today pretty much lay at his narcissistic feet. I would highly recommend taking a deep dive into how his economic policies actually make any mathematical sense and have influenced (conscious or not, the absurdity of modern markets and by extension modern business practices). /aside.

Glyptodon 5y ago
Abstracted, I'm not super opinionated about private sector vs public sector health care, but I'm very opinionated about employer provided healthcare being a not good idea - it turns into a fight where employees have to follow the moral dicta of the employer even if it's not something the employee agrees with, not to mention it's obnoxious to have it change and go through COBRA or exchanges for 3 month shots every time you change jobs. And that it messes up effective cost sharing. Not to mention people who won't change jobs because they're afraid of healthcare changes or losing it. Retirement is similar - retirement benefits are used in manipulative ways by employers to make the labor market less competitive (vesting schedules, match timing and amounts, etc.). And for 401k-style plans, there's no reason your employer should decide for you which terrible high-fee investments you can use.
- Avicebron 5y ago
  Ok, I see you're point, dealing with the obnoxious employer - healthcare provider package deal that they've come to some agreement with is very annoying, borderline dangerous in the worst case scenario. I guess I'm only opinionated on people being able to receive healthcare, irregardless. Unfortunately I think that if it's not given out by the gov't, it needs to be given out by somebody (e.g. pay the monthly fees per job etc and be able to get something when needed), I just don't think that giving people the extra money and saying "well if you're extra smart, and extra resourceful, you can figure it out actually works"...it's sad, but sometimes the best thing is an inadvertent safety net, even if some people balk at it EDIT: I think retirement is similar, for basically the same reasons, yes, we all want to be the smart free spirited libertarian, but on net..what is this some sort of darwinian contest. boring yawn
  - Glyptodon 5y ago
    In the context of this conversation, I'm not intending to suggest that people should be able to not have healthcare or retirement, just that removing them from employers makes it vastly easier to set a wage floor based on a poverty level that can include their costs and that can be full-time/part-time agnostic because there won't be such a thing as "benefits eligibility" based on whether you work 40 hours for a specific employer or not.

cto_of_antifa 5y ago

This is pretty awesome IMHO. I feel like this is the exact prescription for industry players like Walmart that ride free on a system of public benefits their employees are forced to use.

gruez 5y ago

>then tax employers on the difference between their wages and 1.25x the poverty line why not just bump the minimum wage? It's effectively the same thing.

Glyptodon 5y ago
It's true that in theory the results should be about the same. Now that I'm thinking about it more ADA/Texas abortion-style enforcement of a better set minimum wage might be interesting.