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Serious question then, how does someone become a ‘developer’?

WalterSear 5y ago
Write code. Create stuff. Schooling can only ever provide you a starting off point.
adventured 5y ago
There's nothing wrong with using a bootcamp to get started. Everyone has to start somewhere. The bootcamps have often gotten a bad reputation for pretending they prepare you to dive right into a serious job as an experienced developer. Many of them are guilty of misleading people to pull customers, doing the typical thing of promising overly fast results. Bootcamps, self-education, go to school for it, internships; a combination of things. There are plenty of ways to get started and keep progressing.
DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
By developing software. …which is why “developer” is not a good job-description. I suppose it’s as if both a bricklayer and a civil-engineer referred to themselves as “builders”. —————- I think you meant to ask “how does someone become an SWE?” - in which case (because we don’t have professional licensing for SWE compared to civil-eng) it’s somewhat vaguer and, in my opinion, more based on the opinions of those around you. I suppose a succinct definition is “applies engineering principles to a problem-solving project” - and one can argue that being self-taught or a coding-camp attendee - or even an AS graduate - will very likely lack exposure to training in engineering principles that they can apply to their work.
- paulcole 5y ago
  No, I definitely didn’t mean SWE. I quoted the post I was replying to and they said ‘developer.’ Honestly, it seems like a bootcamp is a great way to get introduced to the possibility of an entry-level job as a developer but not an SWE.
aloisdg 5y ago
I would said by developing. I don't care where do you start. Just grab a keyboard and start. Choose a personal project. It can be an app for your phone, a small game, a website for your local sport club, a mod, a bot, whatever. You can reinvent the wheel, you can innovate, use all the libraries you want. There is no rules but start. Then line after line, bug after bug, someone become a developer. You will be your first user. Shit starts with the second one. You don't to be a professional one. You don't have to earn money. I think, that you just have to develop.
greggman3 5y ago
By developing ? I'm sure this isn't a good answer but I'd written tons of hobby programs before I got my first developer job. Not because someday I wanted a job but because I actually enjoyed programming and creating things on the computer. If you don't enjoy it or do enjoy it but don't have the time to do it outside of work I don't know what to suggest. I get that might be considered "no fair". I guess maybe you can become a doctor or lawyer without doing doctoring or lawyering in your spare time? But can you become an artist? I feel like most successful artists (video game artists, fashion designers, graphic designers, motion graphics editors) won't get the experience and job by just taking a crash course and then applying. You get in by showing a portfolio of art you've created. Programming might not be similar to art but it feels like getting in is similar, you show a portfolio of stuff you've created. And via this creation you learn much of the stuff you need to pass the interviews have stuff to show.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Programming might not be similar to art but it feels like getting in is similar, you show a portfolio of stuff you've created. Isn’t this just based on your own experiences and biases and the way things have been done historically because developers have mostly been people who had access to computers as kids/teenagers/college students? > If you don't enjoy it or do enjoy it but don't have the time to do it outside of work I don't know what to suggest. Maybe a bootcamp to get the basic skills and then seek out an entry-level job?
  - strix_varius 5y ago
    > Isn’t this just based on your own experiences and biases and the way things have been done historically because developers have mostly been people who had access to computers as kids/teenagers/college students? A dev-ready laptop can be had for less than $300; significantly cheaper than any bootcamp or university. Why would you attempt to invalidate another’s success by insinuating that it’s due to gatekeeping or privilege that just isn’t there?
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
I freelanced! I initially worked on a game server to develop the ultima online server I wanted (I was 14),then around 15 I was developing website in PHP and did one for my mother, which needed something for work (a mini questionnaire kind of thing), then I landed a software for an architect that needed help managing things and then one for some sort of small warehouse. I was extremely underpaid (I set the prices, and at 16 a thousand bucks looks like a lot of money), but by the time I was 19 I had a good chunk of experience, that was even before university. There is room!

Write code. Create stuff. Schooling can only ever provide you a starting off point.

There's nothing wrong with using a bootcamp to get started. Everyone has to start somewhere. The bootcamps have often gotten a bad reputation for pretending they prepare you to dive right into a serious job as an experienced developer. Many of them are guilty of misleading people to pull customers, doing the typical thing of promising overly fast results. Bootcamps, self-education, go to school for it, internships; a combination of things. There are plenty of ways to get started and keep progressing.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago

By developing software. …which is why “developer” is not a good job-description. I suppose it’s as if both a bricklayer and a civil-engineer referred to themselves as “builders”. —————- I think you meant to ask “how does someone become an SWE?” - in which case (because we don’t have professional licensing for SWE compared to civil-eng) it’s somewhat vaguer and, in my opinion, more based on the opinions of those around you. I suppose a succinct definition is “applies engineering principles to a problem-solving project” - and one can argue that being self-taught or a coding-camp attendee - or even an AS graduate - will very likely lack exposure to training in engineering principles that they can apply to their work.

paulcole 5y ago
No, I definitely didn’t mean SWE. I quoted the post I was replying to and they said ‘developer.’ Honestly, it seems like a bootcamp is a great way to get introduced to the possibility of an entry-level job as a developer but not an SWE.

aloisdg 5y ago

I would said by developing. I don't care where do you start. Just grab a keyboard and start. Choose a personal project. It can be an app for your phone, a small game, a website for your local sport club, a mod, a bot, whatever. You can reinvent the wheel, you can innovate, use all the libraries you want. There is no rules but start. Then line after line, bug after bug, someone become a developer. You will be your first user. Shit starts with the second one. You don't to be a professional one. You don't have to earn money. I think, that you just have to develop.

greggman3 5y ago

By developing ? I'm sure this isn't a good answer but I'd written tons of hobby programs before I got my first developer job. Not because someday I wanted a job but because I actually enjoyed programming and creating things on the computer. If you don't enjoy it or do enjoy it but don't have the time to do it outside of work I don't know what to suggest. I get that might be considered "no fair". I guess maybe you can become a doctor or lawyer without doing doctoring or lawyering in your spare time? But can you become an artist? I feel like most successful artists (video game artists, fashion designers, graphic designers, motion graphics editors) won't get the experience and job by just taking a crash course and then applying. You get in by showing a portfolio of art you've created. Programming might not be similar to art but it feels like getting in is similar, you show a portfolio of stuff you've created. And via this creation you learn much of the stuff you need to pass the interviews have stuff to show.

paulcole 5y ago
> Programming might not be similar to art but it feels like getting in is similar, you show a portfolio of stuff you've created. Isn’t this just based on your own experiences and biases and the way things have been done historically because developers have mostly been people who had access to computers as kids/teenagers/college students? > If you don't enjoy it or do enjoy it but don't have the time to do it outside of work I don't know what to suggest. Maybe a bootcamp to get the basic skills and then seek out an entry-level job?
- strix_varius 5y ago
  > Isn’t this just based on your own experiences and biases and the way things have been done historically because developers have mostly been people who had access to computers as kids/teenagers/college students? A dev-ready laptop can be had for less than $300; significantly cheaper than any bootcamp or university. Why would you attempt to invalidate another’s success by insinuating that it’s due to gatekeeping or privilege that just isn’t there?

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

I freelanced! I initially worked on a game server to develop the ultima online server I wanted (I was 14),then around 15 I was developing website in PHP and did one for my mother, which needed something for work (a mini questionnaire kind of thing), then I landed a software for an architect that needed help managing things and then one for some sort of small warehouse. I was extremely underpaid (I set the prices, and at 16 a thousand bucks looks like a lot of money), but by the time I was 19 I had a good chunk of experience, that was even before university. There is room!