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> The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life befor

by preach 5y ago

> The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity. Do you agree?

baxuz 5y ago
The author contradicts himself: > Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or of a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. > The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  There is no contradiction, except that maybe you don't like the word "God."
  - hprotagonist 5y ago
    or conflate god and religion. (which prophetic voices through the ages, bonhoeffer included, have consistently reminded us is wrong)
- karaterobot 5y ago
  There is no contradiction here. An upsurge of religious power in the public sphere is not equivalent to an upsurge in the fear of God.
api 5y ago
I have a secular hypothesis about stupidity that echoes this: that it’s root is narcissism. A person becomes stupid when they come to believe that they could not be wrong. This could be why profoundly accomplished people sometimes become stupid. Their accomplishment convinces them that they are intellectually superior, at which point they proceed to stop thinking critically.
- brighton36 5y ago
  Just replace the word 'God' with 'The community', and religious theories tend to make a lot more sense.
- baremetal 5y ago
  your secular hypothesis and theistic views on this are in agreement. self-worship.
NalNezumi 5y ago
To me that just seems like a theistic wording of "be humble because you are not perfect, and there's always a potential that you're wrong" An atheistic wording could come from a moral perspective or appealing to virtuous characteristic. A more scientific/ modern observation based re-wording of that is just the dunning kruger effect. (specifically the middle plateau of it)
- mistermann 5y ago
  I think sometimes religion comes with more reverence or a genuine deep respect for the idea.
- User23 5y ago
  What is virtuous and what is moral for the atheist? Is it more than the bits of the religious morality his ancestors believed that doesn't contradict his present desires? That question seriously troubled me for some time. Ethics cannot be deduced from logic and aesthetics. To give an example, why exactly is rape wrong? Logically, evolutionary science lets us conclude that it increases individual fitness by increasing mating opportunities and group fitness by spreading alleles that are good at reproducing themselves. Judging by the popularity of the subject in fine art, aesthetics can't condemn it either. So what makes it wrong? Is it anything more than a bald assertion? On what basis and by whose authority? Is ethics merely the science of discerning whatever it is that the strongest secular power one is subject to will permit? I find that proposition philosophically unsatisfying. Meanwhile, while there is plenty of room for elaboration, a theist can rest on the moral foundation that Mankind was created with inherent dignity in the image of the Creator and thus rape, murder, theft, and various other offenses against that dignity are objectively immoral, regardless of what whoever holds the local monopoly on violence thinks. Additionally, to aid those who may not be capable of drawing those inferences, the sacred scriptures literally spell out the most obvious dos and don'ts.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    There is clear evidence that morality originated with the evolution of societal thinking and human collaboration. Morality is evolutionary useful because it improves in-group trust and collaboration. In other words, there is clear evidence that morality existed thousands of years before religion. Experiments also show that even 2 year old humans and a number of animal species have clear moral thinking.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Tolkein said that it didn't pay to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you happened to live near one. In the same way, it's a good idea to think very carefully about how God affects you, if you happen to live in a universe where He exists. So the first question is, do you live in such a universe? Is He there, or not? Not "would you prefer Him to exist, or not?" Not "Does your culture say He exists?" But does He actually exist? Is He really there? If He exists, this is a very different universe than if He doesn't. And it would be wisdom to live in a manner that fits the universe you are in...
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  > So the first question is, do you live in such a universe? Is He there, or not? If one cannot falsify a god's existence then can it be proven to exist?
throw7 5y ago
I think understanding/explaining what "fear of God" means is kind of hard to explain in the postmodern world. It's partly recognizing that to know God is to fear God, but that also is not that great of an explanation. There's another verse about walking humbly with thy God. That may be a better more modern verse to pick I'd say.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Micah 6:8? He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

by preach 5y ago

baxuz 5y ago

The author contradicts himself: > Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or of a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. > The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity.

AlbertCory 5y ago
There is no contradiction, except that maybe you don't like the word "God."
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  or conflate god and religion. (which prophetic voices through the ages, bonhoeffer included, have consistently reminded us is wrong)
karaterobot 5y ago
There is no contradiction here. An upsurge of religious power in the public sphere is not equivalent to an upsurge in the fear of God.

api 5y ago

I have a secular hypothesis about stupidity that echoes this: that it’s root is narcissism. A person becomes stupid when they come to believe that they could not be wrong. This could be why profoundly accomplished people sometimes become stupid. Their accomplishment convinces them that they are intellectually superior, at which point they proceed to stop thinking critically.

brighton36 5y ago
Just replace the word 'God' with 'The community', and religious theories tend to make a lot more sense.
baremetal 5y ago
your secular hypothesis and theistic views on this are in agreement. self-worship.

NalNezumi 5y ago

To me that just seems like a theistic wording of "be humble because you are not perfect, and there's always a potential that you're wrong" An atheistic wording could come from a moral perspective or appealing to virtuous characteristic. A more scientific/ modern observation based re-wording of that is just the dunning kruger effect. (specifically the middle plateau of it)

mistermann 5y ago
I think sometimes religion comes with more reverence or a genuine deep respect for the idea.
User23 5y ago
What is virtuous and what is moral for the atheist? Is it more than the bits of the religious morality his ancestors believed that doesn't contradict his present desires? That question seriously troubled me for some time. Ethics cannot be deduced from logic and aesthetics. To give an example, why exactly is rape wrong? Logically, evolutionary science lets us conclude that it increases individual fitness by increasing mating opportunities and group fitness by spreading alleles that are good at reproducing themselves. Judging by the popularity of the subject in fine art, aesthetics can't condemn it either. So what makes it wrong? Is it anything more than a bald assertion? On what basis and by whose authority? Is ethics merely the science of discerning whatever it is that the strongest secular power one is subject to will permit? I find that proposition philosophically unsatisfying. Meanwhile, while there is plenty of room for elaboration, a theist can rest on the moral foundation that Mankind was created with inherent dignity in the image of the Creator and thus rape, murder, theft, and various other offenses against that dignity are objectively immoral, regardless of what whoever holds the local monopoly on violence thinks. Additionally, to aid those who may not be capable of drawing those inferences, the sacred scriptures literally spell out the most obvious dos and don'ts.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  There is clear evidence that morality originated with the evolution of societal thinking and human collaboration. Morality is evolutionary useful because it improves in-group trust and collaboration. In other words, there is clear evidence that morality existed thousands of years before religion. Experiments also show that even 2 year old humans and a number of animal species have clear moral thinking.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Tolkein said that it didn't pay to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you happened to live near one. In the same way, it's a good idea to think very carefully about how God affects you, if you happen to live in a universe where He exists. So the first question is, do you live in such a universe? Is He there, or not? Not "would you prefer Him to exist, or not?" Not "Does your culture say He exists?" But does He actually exist? Is He really there? If He exists, this is a very different universe than if He doesn't. And it would be wisdom to live in a manner that fits the universe you are in...

paulryanrogers 5y ago
> So the first question is, do you live in such a universe? Is He there, or not? If one cannot falsify a god's existence then can it be proven to exist?

throw7 5y ago

I think understanding/explaining what "fear of God" means is kind of hard to explain in the postmodern world. It's partly recognizing that to know God is to fear God, but that also is not that great of an explanation. There's another verse about walking humbly with thy God. That may be a better more modern verse to pick I'd say.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
Micah 6:8? He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.