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I find it a bit sad that we've become so Puritan that even art is considered "adult".
by yosito 5y ago
I find it a bit sad that we've become so Puritan that even art is considered "adult".
- mdoms 5y agoUnfortunately the tech platforms are controlled by American companies with American values.
- tisthetruth 5y agoHaha the end result of being conditioned to wear shorts to the beach. In the future people won't even look at each other anymore. It will be taboo.
- shadilay 5y agoContext is dead because AI content moderation is infinitely cheaper than human moderation. It's time to end the tyranny of centralized services.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 5y agoWell, they already can plug their website into the decentralized www. What they want is to tap into an existing large audience.
- shadilay 5y agoAre you saying that an institution has to market itself to potential customers in order to exist and has to follow them to where they are? The aim here is to develop interoperability so users have the option of thousands of networks without lock in.
- dymk 5y agoOther way around. Cultural changes have driven companies to build broad catch-all moderation because that’s what the loudest demand.
- shadilay 5y agoThere is always a problem when you have to apply one set of standards globally. Ideally there would be far more censorship but it would only affect decentralized communities of ~150. Smaller groups can set rules to suit themselves, less so with billions of users.
- sebow 5y agoI don't think it's necessarily about being puritan. If images like these, which is by definition art, were what people posted on FB, Twitter, etc., then maybe to a degree they would be allowed on certain platforms. However the reality is that the vast majority is very hardcore material that should not be allowed. You either allow all or try to forbid everything, otherwise you end up in a mess since many people end up in the extremes, and the sensible content slowly fades away.If you're talking about the culture and society being puritan, I agree, but then again the access to information also drastically changed.To this you also include the fact that by definition facebook &co try to be very globalistic in nature, they also have to adapt to certain "societal norms"(thinking about the eastern ones), where people are way more puritan. Imo such art being displayed on OF is kind of a shame and a disgrace to those artists, considering the kind of material being posted there.
- sp332 5y agoI mean, some art is adult! Anyway it's less of a moral thing and more economical. Facebook sells ads next to user content. Anything that advertisers are unwilling to risk appearing next to is on thin ice.
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoIt is grossly inappropriate that we subjugate our entire culture to the capricious will of online advertisers. They are unaccountable, unelected, rife with fraud and not even subject to customer feedback. It's all the evils of both government bureaucracy and free markets distilled into one toxic concoction. I would rather pay a subscribtion fee for any social network I use, keep the data and decide what I get to see.
- microtherion 5y agoThere is definitely a lot of art that is "adult" for one reason or other. If I walked into my kids' daycare to see a reproduction of [0] on the wall, I'd definitely raise an eyebrow, and even [1] is probably enough to scare smaller children. We've kind of grown numbed to the iconography, but even as an older teenager I was fairly shocked by a closer look at [2]. The distinction between "art" and "pornography" is also somewhat artificial. It's hard to argue that [3] was not meant to be prurient when the model (underage, by today's standards) shortly thereafter became a mistress of the King of France, based on him having seen the painting. And some stuff that was painted might get you banned from OnlyFans even today, e.g. [4]. But the problem, it seems to me, is that the internet has turned into a place where (1) everything has to be "safe for children" and (2) said safety standards are defined (through US influence, I strongly suspect) to be highly permissive of violence, but super strict on nudity. [0] https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-war/CwHM2HdTO3l2vg https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-war/CwHM2HdTO3l2... [1] https://www.wikiart.org/en/max-ernst/the-angel-of-the-home-or-the-triumph-of-surrealism-1937 https://www.wikiart.org/en/max-ernst/the-angel-of-the-home-o... [2] https://www.wikiart.org/en/matthias-grunewald/the-crucifixion-1524 https://www.wikiart.org/en/matthias-grunewald/the-crucifixio... [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:François_Boucher_-_Blond_Odalisque_(L%27Odalisque_Blonde)_-_WGA2906.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:François_Boucher_-_B... [4] https://www.wikiart.org/en/jean-honore-fragonard/girl-with-a-dog https://www.wikiart.org/en/jean-honore-fragonard/girl-with-a...
- x14km2d 5y agoWhat the...?: [1] Artworks of Max Ernst are not aviable in your country on copyright grounds. https://i.imgur.com/LHeQimw.png https://i.imgur.com/LHeQimw.png
- codetrotter 5y agoClassic Germany
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- YetAnotherNick 5y agoThere is difference between adult and vulgar. Adult just means that it might have bad influence on children, nothing else.
- tarsinge 5y agoThis is kind of what the parent comment is pointing, non vulgar/non sexual nude being seen as having a bad influence is puritan.
- yosito 5y agoI am not sure why seeing, for example, the statue of Michael Angelo, might have a bad influence on Children except according to some perverse religion where the human body is somehow bad.
- pjc50 5y agoNudity and sexual content was always subject to suppression and censorship, it's just that "fine art" got a free exception for nudity for reasons that I've never seen adequately explained but are almost certainly to do with class. (The nude-but-not-sexual viewpoint is pretty valid, but some of the fine art is definitely sexual once you know the context, and some of it was controversial in its time e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_D%C3%A9jeuner_sur_l%27herbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_D%C3%A9jeuner_sur_l%27herbe )
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Nudity and sexual content was always subject to suppression and censorship, it's just that "fine art" got a free exception for nudity for reasons that I've never seen adequately explained but are almost certainly to do with class. This is true only for very unusual definitions of “always” and/or “fine art”; history is more than Victorian England.
- watwut 5y agoCan you name a culture where people don't have some taboo or restrictions about sexuality in art or drawings? It may he more loose or less loose, but it always exists somewhere.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> Nudity and sexual content was always subject to suppression and censorship Source? To my reading, this is a decisively late Christian/Puritan perspective on sex and the human body.
- retrac 5y agoAs far as I can tell, every human culture has some taboos about these things. In my readings, I've never heard of a culture where the base state is nudity and this is unremarkable. Even in cultures where we think they're nude, they're still working their own modesty standards. I am reminded how in some traditional New Guinean cultures, the males wear nothing but a gourd to cover the genitalia. But they're very shy without the gourds. Similarly, there isn't a single culture ever documented (to the best of my knowledge) where lovers don't usually seek some degree of privacy. Of course, exactly what counts as nude (or public lovemaking) and just how draconian the repercussions for transgression are, varies greatly.
- kome 5y agoWe who? it's the Americans. Those puritan standards for art are far from universal. In fact, they don't even cross the Atlantic well. That's what cultural imperialism is about: projecting one set of values as universal and natural, when it's really not. And that's the problem with having a big media/technology (de facto) monopoly, all located in one hegemonic country.
- vmception 5y agowell Austria / Europe hasn’t Its just the platforms in a country populated and founded by ideological and religious extremists kicked out of Europe
- inglor_cz 5y agoAustria is fairly Catholic for European standards, but Vienna, the capital, is a major exception. It had a "sexually liberated", freethinking and bohemian reputation already in the 19th century. Much like the USA, Europe does not fit into neat boxes made of stereotypes.
- vmception 5y agoI was waiting for this comment What I was really trying to do was mention the areas of Europe that are either “sexually liberated” or apathetic to sexuality and equally wont bother anybody or weakly say “it’s not my opinion it’s the advertisers!” because the advertisers don’t care either I wasn't aiming to imply or say the entire subcontinent is like that Not sure a better way to do that, even with your observation
- ravenstine 5y agoI'm not sure it's Puritan so much as it's modern society's strange desire to sexualize everything while also keeping sexuality behind glass, figuratively speaking.
- disneygibson 5y agoI’m glad that nude artwork is filtered out from the mainstream, because if it weren’t, the art world would become even more faddish and attention-seeking. I can’t even search YouTube for recipes or offgrid videos anymore, because the top results are always a woman in a sexualized pose. It’s okay to like boundaries. Everything doesn’t need to be blared in your face all the time. Saying this doesn’t make me a Puritan, it makes me in line with most of the people on earth.
- djbusby 5y ago> makes me in line with most of the people on earth. But why is your text grey?
- disneygibson 5y agoHN is a very niche audience. Most of the global population is in China, India, Africa, and the Muslim world (including Indonesia and Pakistan) and the majority of these people do not want nudity everywhere. As usual, a small segment of Western society deems itself morally superior to the entire world. New century, same old mentality.
- Stampo00 5y agoOr is this a clever art installation in itself commenting on ideas like censorship and views of the human body in modern society? I think this is ridiculously clever!
- nsonha 5y agoI think the whole concept of art is adult. Kids are less pretentious.
- stayux 5y agoAs an artist I avoid sharing over the internet oil nudes, anatomy sketches or artistic nude photography. I made the last attempt in early 2013 trough Instagram. Quickly realizing the big mistake I deleted my account and never come back. This are the new times. We will adapt as always.
- itronitron 5y agoOne positive aspect of that is that an artist could effectively prevent the sharing of their work on social media by including nudes in the work.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mixmastamyk 5y agoWhat happened?
- stayux 5y agoA mob of angry puritans attacked me in the comments and over-reported my act photos for abuse etc. (photos were black & white medium film and abstract as can possibly be - with no nipples in sight and no sexual provocation in composition). Someone (I assume moderators) deleted my posts minutes after upload. After several attempts to clear the issue and no reaction from Instagram I decided that it is not worth the effort. Mind you, at the time all influencers were using the platform in sexually subjective ways with no problems at all. Since then, I don't share on any platform my act photography, painting or drawing work. It is available only for exhibitions and print medium (albums).
- rufus_foreman 5y agoI don't know. I used to want to be able to draw like Egon Schiele. Back when I was in art school they had an assignment where you drew a self portrait in the style of another artist so I did Egon. Didn't do the full nude but you know. The guy could draw. Still wish I could draw like that but wishes aren't paychecks. People taking the subway to work might not want to see all that.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoPornography is bigger than Facebook…
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- SergeAx 5y agoWho are those "we"? I do not associate myself with YouTube, Facebook, Apple and other censorship giants.