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Maybe women are just more interested in learning than men! It could just be a matter of “preferences” and that’s fine, right? Edit: For the sake of clarity, my

Maybe women are just more interested in learning than men! It could just be a matter of “preferences” and that’s fine, right? Edit: For the sake of clarity, my comment was tongue-in-cheek as it's the justification I repeatedly see whenever gender imbalance/inequality is mentioned on HN. I think it's patently ridiculous to say that one gender is for some reason more interested in learning than another.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
I think this is the case. Men preferring to work with their hands over books is observed over many cultures. The university system expanding mostly in the direction of brain-work leaves out these men. Ideally we would have a Germany-like system that better guides training for these populations and professions to help create a more robust working class.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > Men preferring to work with their hands over books is observed over many cultures If the books are about robots and the manual task is taking care of kids you'd draw the opposite conclusion.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Sorry I wasn’t clear, the use of ‘hands’ in my phrasing was alluding to an idiom: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+good+with+your+hands https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+good+with+your+hands Building mechanized and static systems with a specialized subset of tools has been found to be more of interest by men across cultures. Who knows if this is due to natural selection.
- watwut 5y ago
  Crafts, sewing and other hand work are female domain in the cultures worldwide. Like, seriously.
Jensson 5y ago
Right, it is fine, similarly men are more interested in learning about engineering topics etc. The main reason universities see more women than men is that universities focuses more on subjects women likes than men likes. If universities removed most social science courses you'd see mostly men in higher education. The reason you see people complain about these things here is that they reverse the complaints about men dominating engineering. It wouldn't be right if people only complained about men dominating engineering, so to even that out people also complain when women dominate other subjects.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Again, this assumes facts not in evidence. The idea that men are just more interested in engineering than women is a retcon over the fact that most (but not all) engineering fields have sharp gender imbalances. The correlation is demonstrated, but the causation simply is not. It's just as possible (and in fact more likely, I think) that engineering fields are making mistakes that retard participation from women, the same way other STEM fields that are imbalanced towards women are making mistakes that retard male participation. You see the same just-so storytelling when it's observed that women achieve more chemistry doctorates than they do physics doctorates. "But women are interested in medical careers". A chemistry PhD is not part of the ordinary path towards getting a medical degree. Or with math: "women are interested in being teachers, so they get math degrees". Not PhD's, they don't.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    I can believe in my theory until it is disproven. It has yet to be disproven, and given how the gender balance in these fields has similar bias in all developed nations I'll likely never get disproven. Your theory that women are held back by bias would require that every developed country coordinated their biases so they map the same by field. That doesn't make sense, there is no way I'll believe that is true unless some really extreme evidence is provided. How else would you explain that the gender ratio for these subjects in Russia is very close to the same as in USA? It isn't like they share culture etc. There are so many fields, why would biology have the most women, then chemistry, then civil, then mechanical etc? It is too much of a coincidence.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
“ I think it's patently ridiculous to say that one gender is for some reason more interested in learning than another.” You don’t think evolution plays a role in behavior?

mensetmanusman 5y ago

I think this is the case. Men preferring to work with their hands over books is observed over many cultures. The university system expanding mostly in the direction of brain-work leaves out these men. Ideally we would have a Germany-like system that better guides training for these populations and professions to help create a more robust working class.

Jensson 5y ago
> Men preferring to work with their hands over books is observed over many cultures If the books are about robots and the manual task is taking care of kids you'd draw the opposite conclusion.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Sorry I wasn’t clear, the use of ‘hands’ in my phrasing was alluding to an idiom: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+good+with+your+hands https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+good+with+your+hands Building mechanized and static systems with a specialized subset of tools has been found to be more of interest by men across cultures. Who knows if this is due to natural selection.
watwut 5y ago
Crafts, sewing and other hand work are female domain in the cultures worldwide. Like, seriously.

Jensson 5y ago

Right, it is fine, similarly men are more interested in learning about engineering topics etc. The main reason universities see more women than men is that universities focuses more on subjects women likes than men likes. If universities removed most social science courses you'd see mostly men in higher education. The reason you see people complain about these things here is that they reverse the complaints about men dominating engineering. It wouldn't be right if people only complained about men dominating engineering, so to even that out people also complain when women dominate other subjects.

tptacek 5y ago
Again, this assumes facts not in evidence. The idea that men are just more interested in engineering than women is a retcon over the fact that most (but not all) engineering fields have sharp gender imbalances. The correlation is demonstrated, but the causation simply is not. It's just as possible (and in fact more likely, I think) that engineering fields are making mistakes that retard participation from women, the same way other STEM fields that are imbalanced towards women are making mistakes that retard male participation. You see the same just-so storytelling when it's observed that women achieve more chemistry doctorates than they do physics doctorates. "But women are interested in medical careers". A chemistry PhD is not part of the ordinary path towards getting a medical degree. Or with math: "women are interested in being teachers, so they get math degrees". Not PhD's, they don't.
- Jensson 5y ago
  I can believe in my theory until it is disproven. It has yet to be disproven, and given how the gender balance in these fields has similar bias in all developed nations I'll likely never get disproven. Your theory that women are held back by bias would require that every developed country coordinated their biases so they map the same by field. That doesn't make sense, there is no way I'll believe that is true unless some really extreme evidence is provided. How else would you explain that the gender ratio for these subjects in Russia is very close to the same as in USA? It isn't like they share culture etc. There are so many fields, why would biology have the most women, then chemistry, then civil, then mechanical etc? It is too much of a coincidence.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

“ I think it's patently ridiculous to say that one gender is for some reason more interested in learning than another.” You don’t think evolution plays a role in behavior?