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Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

651 points by elorant 5y ago

kgeist 5y ago
It's probably true of any social network and not specific to Facebook. Here in Russia, we have our own alternatives which are more popular than Facebook, and the symptoms are pretty much same
cmod 5y ago
somewhat related: to be happy, hide from the spotlight [0] [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/10/fame-prestige-happiness-trap/620379/ https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/10/fame-pres...
marricks 5y ago
While I hate FB I also hate headlines like this, why poll the public on something the media affects? Just report what findings are and the effects. It’s like a couple months ago having headlines saying “more American’s (USA) are afraid of crime rising than any time in the past 20 years!” and crime only rose slightly… it’s the cart leading the horse.
karlzt 5y ago
Check: https://accountabletech.org/media/polling/ https://accountabletech.org/media/polling/ The majority of Americans voters believe that Facebook does more harm than good.
AniseAbyss 5y ago
Facebook is just the messenger, the real problem is American culture. Stop consuming US media and news. Unfortunately Canada is right next door.
vadfa 5y ago
If it's over 50% then it's no problem, they can just quit it without fearing network effects. There will be enough users in the new platform.
- zepto 5y ago
  What new platform? Why won’t the new platform be just as bad? Switching brand of cigarettes doesn’t protect your lungs.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    It will be just as bad, I'm just mocking this stupid survey.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Fair comment!
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Don't worry, we've switched to clean coal because it's better for the environment
  - jszymborski 5y ago
    I think that's a fair point, but I wonder if I can probe HNs brain on what a "healthy" online social network would look like. Here are some thoughts I have: 1) The platform does not have a user-engagement incentive. 2) Personal network sizes are restricted. You can't be "friends" with everyone. Adding friends perhaps comes at some cost or is just strictly capped. 3) Sharing outside your friends network from the platform is not possible. This platform is for sharing with your friends, not the world. 4) Trust in the platform and how it shares your data. The easiest way to trust the server is if everything is E2EE, but we all know that's not trivial. Perhaps the limits in scaling E2EE can work synergistically with (2) and (3) (1) seems to be the hardest thing here in my mind. Anybody have thoughts on what could make a social network "healthy"?
    - pzo 5y ago
      some good points. I would add also: 5) limit how many posts / pictures / content you can share per day to avoid information overload. This should make people double thing what they are writing and hopefully more higher quality content. 6) automatically limit time spend for everyone on social media for e.g. 30-60 min per person per day. 7) Different business model than ads.
starik36 5y ago
It would be interesting to see whether people think news networks also harm their mental health.
- Applejinx 5y ago
  Once Facebook's got through with them, I'm sure people do think that. Quite aside from the deterioration of that medium, there's been good money in helping nefarious actors poison that well.
- ArtDev 5y ago
  Yes but I have found that, in the case of Google News, the content prioritized up by the algorithm tends to be things I am interested in; which tend to be more commercial in nature. For example, boardgames. If I was clicking on outrageous type news headlines, it might look different. I have disciplined my curiosity to not click on obnoxious viral headlines. I see a click as a vote, so I don't do that. Social Media is trickier because the media and the social part is mixed up. I quit social media about 7 months ago and I don't see going back.
macksd 5y ago
As a side note, I'm a little saddened when I see friends apologize for their posts. There's such a reaction to "influencer culture" that people feel like foodgrams and humblebrags are a terrible thing, and in excess they certainly can be, but I think from most people it's a billion times better than strawman political arguments and manipulative media that is far worse for our mental health than just comparing ourselves to someone's good day. I had a friend post a picture of food made from ingredients they had made in their own garden, and it made them feel so good to eat it because they had had a rough year and it was a good personal win, so they apologetically posted a photo of it. Forget the rest of the trash on Facebook - seeing a friend I haven't seen in a while experience something good and being able to share that with them is something we need more of in the world. I'd trade away all the "only geniuses can remember the order of operations for this future scam page" or "you won't believe how this person misrepresents their opponents views and tears that misrepresentation apart!" and keep stuff like this.
- chickenfries 5y ago
  I agree with you that I wish social media was full of more posts like this, but foodgrams and humble brags as you put it are also one of the reasons I avoid social media these days. Seeing a feed of the best moments of other peoples lives leaves me feeling depressed. "Comparison is the thief of joy." I'm happy for my friends, but seeing it all collected in one place makes my own life feel inadequate. I'm much happier when I avoid social media.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    It's strange... I thought we were wired as a species to live vicariously, to feel joy when others are blessed, and feel pain when they suffer. You're not the only one that doesn't get that out of Facebook... Why? Is it the quantity? The format? What turns it into a place of covetousness and bitterness?
    - pmontra 5y ago
      Maybe the distance and the volume? I belong to some whatsapp and Telegram groups with people I know and I meet with at least every few months. We share stuff, even foodgrams. It's ok to hear from them. I can't just cope with all the stuff posted by some people I know but I didn't meet with for years. There are too many of them. I need time to live my life so I gave up Facebook, downsized my network and do things with people I meet.
rtoway 5y ago
Last I checked, studies on the issue of social media and mental health are pretty mixed and inconclusive. But it is a popular belief regardless
- dylan604 5y ago
  It's easy to click the button for the response you think people want to hear. Polls mean nothing except for the people being paid to run them.
distortedsignal 5y ago
Most important paragraph, IMO: > Conducted Oct. 8 to 10, the online poll surveyed 1,545 Canadians and cannot be assigned a margin of error because internet-based polls are not considered random samples. It's a pretty good sample-size, but we don't get error bars. I don't remember if there was anything FB-critical happening that week (when did the study about teen mental health come out?), but the timeframe could also affect the survey.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  it 's not just missing error bars, this is not a sample, period. so it's not something reliable.
  - xdavidliu 5y ago
    it is a sample. It's just not an unbiased sample [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics)#Kinds_of_samples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics)#Kinds_of_s...
    - hcrisp 5y ago
      Very unbiased. Only sampled people who were online and ostensibly only those who used Facebook. Since maybe ~60% of people use Facebook, I don't think the results speak for _all_ Canadians. If it did that's saying a lot for secondhand effects of social media platforms.
      - karmanyaahm 5y ago
        Not totally sure, but aren't people with extreme feelings more likely to answer a survey? Voluntary or nonresponse biases
        itsoktocry 5y ago
        >Not totally sure, but... This kind of discourse is annoying. You don't get "points" for making some hypothetical claim. If you think there is something wrong with an analysis, demonstrate it. Isn't that what "pro-science" people do?
flycaliguy 5y ago
Yeah, I mean, this is among Canadians willing to fill out a survey online. Frankly it feels like another push in the media world to shift blame to FB. As far as specifically Canadian factors, maybe don’t survey us in October when the days are getting noticeably shorter? I feel like we are all a little melancholy right now preparing for our lightless morning commutes.
- dr-detroit 5y ago
  If you love being exploited by the ultra rich why dont you just move to Russia and let the rest of us at least try to avoid the social media brainscramble.
- keewee7 5y ago
  What I don't understand is the selective outrage against Facebook/Instagram. Why not Twitter, YouTube, reddit and TikTok?
  - golemiprague 5y ago
    Because facebook give a place for not so lefty people to express their mind. Twitter and reddit are lefty so they are protected, Tiktok is Chinese so no political points gains attacking it since they don't care about some American opinion. Youtube people actually have to invest time and effort to make an engaging content so people at least have some basic appreciation for it.
  - na85 5y ago
    Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, and TikTok don't have megalomaniac CEOs who got rich selling out their users to advertisers while spending that money on PR messages like "privacy is dead" and then turning around to buy all the mansions around theirs so that they can protect their privacy. Also there's that little itty bitty issue where Facebook was purposely manipulating people's timeline feeds to see if they could produce depression-like symptoms, without informed consent.
    - rndmind 5y ago
AzzieElbab 5y ago
what do most canadians think about the globe and mail?
- version_five 5y ago
  Yeah that was the first thing that went through my mind too. There are few traditional news outlets that don't try and incite rage driven attention. The globe and mail is not a tabloid (last I checked, I'm 10 years into a boycott) but it still tries to bait people into viewing its stories in a way that's tailored to its readership.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    realized it's been that way forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMXyzOaaU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMXyzOaaU8
renewiltord 5y ago
I actually used to use Instagram quite a lot because it brought me quite a bit of happiness seeing what my friends were up to and IG had defensive measures to protect me: - The “you’re all caught up” screen that stops me from scrolling - The fact that stories signify whether they’re watched - The fact that my posts feed only contained followed stuff plus ads So there was the sense of “I’m caught up with my friends’ lives”. Anyway, they’ve changed it: - They now place random stuff below the list of my friends’ posts - They place people I don’t follow into the ad slots for stories Anyway, I use it much less now and we just end up sharing photos in group chats. Does anyone know of what a true IG replacement is? Like something for your friends and you.
kebman 5y ago
I make a conscious effort to not get sucked into Facebook. One rule I have is to never browse past the first ad unless I've got the day off. That minimizes a lot of the time I spend there. Unfortunately I am involved in a few special interest groups in there, but at least the information we share serves a purpose. For everything else, I simply use the standalone Messenger app. That way I can still keep in touch with my friends, without having to scroll through mostly pointless Fb posts and ads.
secondcoming 5y ago
Twitter is worse
legitster 5y ago
I know Facebook is the great evil, but we really need to start looking at the mental health impacts of all social media. The unhappiest people I know are not on Facebook - they are religiously devoted to Twitter and Reddit. Heck, I'd like to know what sort of damage this post right here is doing to me. This is our generation's smoking but everyone only wants to know how harmful Marlboros are. Edit: Please upvote this more. I need to feel like my views are validated.
- ferdowsi 5y ago
  Reddit is an interesting one. Since it's an anonymous experience, I guess it'd be the same issues with any internet community. It can be stressful to see seemingly abhorrent viewpoints in such concentrated numbers. And it can be stressful when you feel a community is turning against you, even if your connections to that community are extremely tendentious.
  - legitster 5y ago
    I think Reddit is uniquely harmful to its users in several ways, maybe even moreso than Facebook: - Users get an intense, one-sided parasocial relationship but with no upside of even communicating directly with each other - The hivemind effect is very real, and using Reddit often gives people a very false sense of superiority of their knowledge on any given topics - Misinformation is rife. Even outside of the conspiracy hubs. It's amazing how many of the "front page" posts are often misleading or slanted - Astroturfing and content farming is even more prevalent but with less moderation.
    - uDontKnowMe 5y ago
      It's interesting you call relationships on Reddit para-social, I don't know if that quite fits the word because Reddit is more of a two-way reciprocal relationship between commenters. Perhaps Twitter fits that description better since you get a lot of power users like Trump and other celebrities which broadcast out to their followers but don't typically respond to normies.
- 5y ago
hk1337 5y ago
Facebook certainly has a good amount of blame but you also have to take some responsibility yourself if you keep logging on every day.
reliablity 5y ago
I stopped using Facebook for over 3 years now and I have been happier. I am still connected to friends, family and community over whatsapp. WhatsApp is much better because you are only connected with your friends, groups and not the whole world.
- hansoolo 5y ago
  Do you actually have not stopped using Facebook?
azangru 5y ago
Why don't they quit then?
- quadrangle 5y ago
  You can ask that for every single behavior that anyone claims goes against their deeper values like good health. Why do people keep smoking or eating junk food or staying up too late or yelling at family and friends when they lose their temper? It's true that deeds speak louder than words. But it's also true that habits are hard to break, and there's the thinking-fast-and-slow ideas that our judgments, actions, and values are different when we are in the immediate flow of emotion vs considering the big picture with detachment. If you ask "why" in a sincere curious way, there's a ton of interesting things to investigate. I hope that was the attitude you meant as opposed to the anti-curious condescending "why" that amounts to just being a doubter.
  - azangru 5y ago
    > If you ask "why" in a sincere curious way No, I was asking why in a frustrated rhetorical way. I get annoyed by the frequency with which people complain about social media, which is usually followed by requests for a government intervention or for a stricter moderation by the network owners. Just quit, I want to say. The internet is huge. Find yourself another hobby. A better network. Or, if you think you are addicted, as you may be to alcohol or drugs, seek help. It should be your responsibility, don't put it on others.
    - quadrangle 5y ago
      Thanks for your honest clarification. I totally get your reaction, and I have similar reactions myself all the time. Some wisdom I got from elsewhere which I'm still working to practice is to eat-your-projections. We notice how other people are complainers and blamers and they make excuses and don't take responsibility. So, we turn it around and ask, "how am I being a complainer and blamer?" And we might notice how we're complaining about the complainers. And best to find this self-reflection humorous. If we switch to blaming ourselves for complaining, we're still blaming and complaining. Ideally, we find some empathy as we realize now something about how the complainers feel, and we realize that we didn't stop to be really curious about what is going on in their experience. I agree with you completely about the value of taking responsibility. It's SO SO hard (I'm speaking for myself here!) to turn that around and literally ask, "what am I doing to take responsibility for this situation?" I.e. the situation in which other people were complaining, and their complaining triggered you, and you're unconsciously blaming them for your annoyed feelings instead of taking responsibility for your failure to be stoic. Sorry for all the meta, this is stuff I am practicing, and it really seems the only "out" to the pattern. And really, take everything I just wrote as me noticing your patterns because I have them myself. I'm working on leading by example before telling you what you "should" do ("shoulding you" in one way to say it). I'm laughing about this and about myself here, so I hope somehow that comes across in this overlong plain-text which I should expect to be misunderstood if I take my own damn advice. Haha ;)
greenail 5y ago
The knee jerk reaction to this is likely one to push for regulation but I don't think that is the solution. We should keep in mind that we still have choice, we can choose not to use Facebook. That choice is likely to have a powerful effect on the direction Facebook (or any other platform) takes. My fear is that government control of social media is such a tempting power it would be hard for politicians not abuse it. It strikes me that this is more of an issue with our culture than anything. That begs the question: can we choose to self moderate social media? The pandemic sure isn't helping.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  > we can choose not to use Facebook You're looking at this from a western perspective. Some non-western countries are entirely linked by Facebook products. When Facebook went down last week, some people couldn't access their BANKS. You OK with that? That's what Facebook wants: to become something you simply MUST use to survive. It goes deeper in the US as well but not as deep: some restaurants and small shops don't have websites, they have facebook/instragram pages, which means I cannot access them. We need legislation to stop Facebook creep, because that "creep" eventually makes it mandatory.
  - Minor49er 5y ago
    > You're looking at this from a western perspective. Some non-western countries are entirely linked by Facebook products. When Facebook went down last week, some people couldn't access their BANKS. You OK with that? Wasn't this because DNS servers were effectively DDoS'd when applications overwhelmed them with requests looking for Facebook without caching the response? Or are there actually banks out there that require Facebook to log in?
    - pzo 5y ago
      So many people these days instead of creating separate account to some websites (login/password) the use instead integrated Login via Facebook button. I tried to educate friends and family not to use this feature even for the reason that if their FB account will be blocked they will loose access to many other websites. However many people give up because it's not so convenient as to just clicking one FB button.
RealityVoid 5y ago
I used to think, untill recently, that Facebook was just a tool and all this hatred was overblown. After all, I modulated my use of it just fine. My usage is sparse, and I use messenger to talk with people I know, it kept us together. I can see how community and bringing old friends together is precious. But, recently, I realized someone I used to be very close has mental problems. Undiagnosed, but there is no other way I can explain his behaviour to myself. Obsessive behaviour, can only talk about his conspiratorial obsession, erratic, spends most of his time "learning" about a specific conspiracy. And I see how Facebook is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. And then I look on my dad's wall, and saw the same hatred and resentment growing, and it scared me, the possibility he might drift even more this way. Now I changed my mind. I think it is harmful and it does induce bad states in people that would otherwise be better, or at least... Surrounded by better support systems. But I still think it's not _just_ Facebook. It's a confluence of factors.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  This happened to a family member, they had undiagnosed schizophrenia and started posting craaaaaazy stuff on YouTube, got a following of fellow like-minded folk that only made things worse until it all exploded into a huge melt down / insane asylum situation. Crazy times.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  I think FB is probably bad, but I've also noticed that people have a tendency to blame delusional mental illnesses on whatever a person was going through/up to at the time it onset when it is often more like a timer went off.
  - RealityVoid 5y ago
    Yes, most likely the ilness would be there even without Facebook. But the platform enables some destructive behavior while in the real life, I hope, more productive support structures could exist. While mental illness is something you might be biologically predisposed, the outcome can vary wildly with or without support structures and good help. And I think on this end Facebook is profoundly destructive.
FpUser 5y ago
I think in this particular case the problem is not FB but people themselves. I am Canadian and it does not harm my mental health for a simple reason that I simply do not use FB or other "social media". I really do not give a hoot about somebody else's lifestyle and what they had for dinner.
remir 5y ago
Social media, ultimately, is information. There is no point in polarizing Facebook as good or bad. It is access to certain types of information and one must learn to discern if it can serve them or not.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Rootkits are information, too. Why do we have anti-malware functionality built into our systems/networks? Yes, I am am making the analogy that large parts of FB are equivalent to malware.
- white-flame 5y ago
  Facebook (and most other businesses in the space) is a system of manipulating and editorializing individuals' social communication in order to extract engagement-related profit. This is not a common carrier, but an active distorter.
- stemlord 5y ago
  Wrong, facebook is a politically involved corporate entity. Additionally they've proven relentlessly over the past decade plus to give zero fucks about improving their scorched earth method of making money.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
So social media turns out to be like alcohol. Possible to use in moderation, but abused to negative health detriments by most partakers.
cortexio 5y ago
What i dont understand is that i always see these negative articles about "facebook". What about twitter or instagram??? It almost feels like propaganda, even though i agree with those canadians to some extend.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
It’s interesting comparing this to internet pornography, which is bigger than FB as a whole, and which (according to youth self surveys) harms mental health (according to ~60% in some surveys).
yodsanklai 5y ago
Getting a bit tired of the Facebook bashing. Everyday some posts make the front page and don't provide any new or interesting information.
pmlnr 5y ago
... and so they stopped using it. Oh, right. That's never what follows.
cronix 5y ago
I'm getting kind of tired of the narrative that "x is evil/bad/harmful, but I'm too weak (we won't admit addiction) to not use x. Everyone I know uses x. Government needs to regulate x (so I don't have to change my ways)." I deleted my account over a year ago now, because I do view them as evil and do cause overall societal harm. It's not life ending. You'll adjust and then wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I made the choice for myself. The only people you'll lose touch with were superficial relationships to begin with. Do you honestly care what that dude you went to gradeschool with but haven't seen for 30 years does? Real relationships don't depend on x platform. All they require is you, and the other person.
- arduinomancer 5y ago
  I dunno On one hand I get it because having a global centralized media source running bleeding edge optimization algorithms against humans is highly unprecedented till recently. But at the same time I don't like the trend in recent years to completely "minimize individual responsibility" It makes sense why these narratives are popular too. It means I don't have to admit my lack of discipline.
- bjt2n3904 5y ago
  Slight nitpick. The argument isn't, "so I don't have to change my behaviors." The argument is, OTHER people are too weak to change their behaviors, so we need to have the government regulate THEIR behavior. (The greater good.) It's bad enough to be lazy and want someone else to fix your problems. It's almost worse to decide you know what other people's problems are, and decide what needs to happen for them. (Or phrased differently... What needs to happen to them.)
  - munk-a 5y ago
    No - since this is a social network this isn't all about personal responsibility. People hate-use facebook because everyone hate-uses facebook. There is no sane alternative because everyone needs to hate-use the same platform to be on it with everyone else.
    - 5y ago
newaccount2021 5y ago
as someone born and educated in Canada, I must say that as a nation they are some of the most feeble-minded people on Earth "being Canadian" has devolved down to a pathetic fake-smugness predicated on cherry-picked comparisons with the US. there is NOTHING else to being a Canadian in 2021. Canada is already the worst choice for businesses in the age of NAFTA. Zuck should just pull FB out of Canada entirely and leave Canadians with the CBC...the net impact on profits will be negligible at best, and long term it will benefit FB to be rid of these crybabies as for everyone else, if you don't have the willpower to log out of FB, you're just pathetic on so many levels and you deserve degraded mental health
999900000999 5y ago
I'm so happy to see awareness around the negative mental health effects of social media. You also don't get all that much from it, back when I was heavy into social media I was miserable, online dating never brought me a worthwhile person. The rare times I'd actually meet a real person, it was almost certain to be someone who was 30 plus and not interested in working. Deleted all my online dating profiles, limited my social media usage and I was making fantastic friends and meeting amazing girls in real life. This was very good for my mental health, during some of my really dark moments I'd spend hours per day on Reddit and Facebook arguing with other angry people. We don't need to be angry, you don't need to argue. You don't need to give the Match group $60 a month to chat with bots. You can still wave at someone at a concert and ask if they want drinks after the show.
- joe_the_user 5y ago
  It seems like there's a standard format "I quit social media and everything is great" post. Usually the poster implies they stepped into ready-made in-real-life contacts and maybe they did. But the implication that this is generally viable strategy for everyone seems wrong.
palidanx 5y ago
What I've realized about Facebook is that there is no way I can convey a really convey anything really meaningful in such a short post. What I started doing is writing a quarterly e-mail newsletter to about 80 of my closest friends and family about details thoughts I've had about life, travel, and personal experiences. Some friends have told me I should write a blog and put all my thoughts out there on the Internet, but I think this kind of defeats the whole purpose to share something intimate to a smaller crowd that the general Internet will never see.
angelzen 5y ago
https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674 https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674 > How do I permanently delete my Facebook account?
karmanyaahm 5y ago
Maybe voluntary response bias?
intrasight 5y ago
FB happens to be the platform by which people share. In an alternative universe where "ShareBook" was the dominant micro-blobbing platform, that would have been the target of these critiques. Depressed people says something about those people and about our culture in general.
throwawaybchr 5y ago
Most Canadians can stop using it then This entire topic is very silly. Parents are free to forbid their kids from using it. Adults can make their own decisions. What it is starting to become is that people want other people to stop using it because they want them to consume the content that they see fit.
uptownfunk 5y ago
Repeat after me: "I can be happy and thrive without social media." Here is how you become a billionaire today- Step 1: Create some thing people want to indulge in, whether or not it is healthy or good for them (as long as it's legal). Step 2: Convince them that it is good for them. Step 3: Acquire anyone else who tries to do the same or squash them out aggressively. Rinse and repeat.
uptownfunk 5y ago
Anyone ever think about getting rid of their smart phone and going back to a flip phone? Honestly, I'm tempted to try this experiment.
causalmodels 5y ago
Self reporting is a notoriously bad measure. It would be nice if we had actual, measurable data to go on.
amatecha 5y ago
"the online poll surveyed 1,545 Canadians" Sorry, but 0.00004% [0] of Canadians can't remotely be described as "most". Unfortunately, the qualifying words "survey suggests" was chopped off the end of the article title, making it seem far more of an authoritative assertion than it really is. :( [0] 1545 / 38246108 estimated population as per https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210929/dq210929c-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210929/dq210...
mlang23 5y ago
Apparently, canadians are a smart bunch!
subliminalpanda 5y ago
https://archive.is/St4NG https://archive.is/St4NG
Unklejoe 5y ago
It always seemed pretty obvious to me. Everyone is fake on social media, but it's not always apparent that it's fake (it it was, then it would defeat the purpose). What happens when it seems like literally everyone is living a better life than you? You feel like shit.
glonq 5y ago
It's true, but TBH so do the Leafs.
kyleblarson 5y ago
I'd say most sane people don't only believe that social media in general is unhealthy, they know it. Some might push for regulation but I would just suggest these people quit it all. I did so a few years ago (well I guess with the exception of HN) and haven't looked back. Sure I might not learn about a high school acquaintance's new baby or the like but the people I truly care about know how to get in touch with me and vice versa.
- passivate 5y ago
  I use it to promote my hobbies (digital art, photography). I don't believe it is unhealthy in general. Calling people who don't agree with you insane is not really a great way to have a healthy conversation.
designertop 5y ago
I've been hearing this for over 5 years now, but social media is still booming, and most people are still on Facebook, and similar apps, and spending more time than ever. It feels weird as if everyone agrees, and knows that smoking kills but continue to smokes more and more.
- Applejinx 5y ago
  Almost as if there are exploitable addictive properties that can be analyzed, maximized, monetized. To KNOW is not gonna change anything much. It's the nature of the beast.
- ahevia 5y ago
  I’ve asked this question to a few non-tech friends. They definitely know and recognize the harms of using social media, but for many them just struggle to quit. They don’t even know how to put their addictions into words. There were a few who also used it because it’s easy to keep up with family or friends who might live far away (which is a really valid use case!) and have no problem quitting it or never checking. These products are designed to be addicting. My hypothesis is that folks might recognize the harm but since the downside is reducing the quality of your mental state (FB doesn’t increase your risk of cancer ala smoking). It’s just not a priority to fix the addiction.
- smegger001 5y ago
  Alcoholics know they are destroying their liver buy still drink, heavy caffeine addicts know their sleep cycle is being disrupted but still drink coffee. Thing is, there is a socially acceptable amount that not significantly destructive. I can drink a coffee at 8 am and still get to sleep, I can have a beer at the monthly game night and still have a functional healthy liver. How much social media can I consume and not fall in depression, compulsive behavior or be polarized in a fringe ideology? Well for me I have mostly quit Facebook (other than messenger and using it for event scheduling for game night.) I don't do TikTok, Twitter, or Instagram. I only use Reddit for niche interest/hobbies and deleted all the default subs. I only use Snapchat to talk to a couple of people because its the best way to get ahold of them, and then there a couple of forums like hackernews i lurk and occasionaly post in and that enough for me. Used in moderation social media is fine. Just like a beer every month or so or a coffee in the morning
kazinator 5y ago
The title is falsified within a few sentences of the story, where it becomes clear that: Most Canadians believe that Facebook harms the mental health of others; their own use of Facebook is healthy and fine. Facebook issues are everyone else's problem, not mine, believes the average Facebook user.
trapatsas 5y ago
What mental health?
birtoise 5y ago
Why do they use it then? Just stop using. Damn ppl are dumb. “Oh it hurts when i poke my eye with a needle guess i will keep doing that for 3h everyday”
- Jonanin 5y ago
  Because people's stated and revealed preferences on this topic are drastically different.
- tomlin 5y ago
  found Zuck's sockpuppet
- achr2 5y ago
  Facebook and it's ilk are one of the most addictive forces ever conceived. It's hard enough to change significantly embedded habits, nearly impossible when those behaviours are expertly designed and continually refined to be as pervasive, addictive, and manipulative as possible.
abrokenpipe 5y ago
I never had an issue with facebook (granted I haven't used either for years), rather instagram. When I was in college instagram really took a toll on my mental health. I'd see friends post the exact same photos as I did and get 2x-3x-4x more likes, and I'd follow people who wouldn't follow me back, It made me question my self worth or social standing. I think facebooks system of "friends" rather than "followers" and reduced emphasis on likes is much less harmful, I always felt like I was being rated in front of everyone on insta. Looking back on it, it really bothers me because I had a lot of good friends that I am still close with, partied a lot, had good relationships, and overall had a really good college experience. I feel like instagram took a bit of that away from me. At some point I realized this and deleted the app, shortly after I was happy as could be.
stormbrew 5y ago
This is a link to the actual poll details from Leger, who conducted it. Contrary to a lot of the replies here that seem to think it was just a haphazard facebook poll or something, it's an online panel poll: https://leger360.com/surveys/legers-north-american-tracker-october-13-2021/ https://leger360.com/surveys/legers-north-american-tracker-o...

651 points by elorant 5y ago

It's probably true of any social network and not specific to Facebook. Here in Russia, we have our own alternatives which are more popular than Facebook, and the symptoms are pretty much same

cmod 5y ago

somewhat related: to be happy, hide from the spotlight [0] [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/10/fame-prestige-happiness-trap/620379/ https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/10/fame-pres...

marricks 5y ago

While I hate FB I also hate headlines like this, why poll the public on something the media affects? Just report what findings are and the effects. It’s like a couple months ago having headlines saying “more American’s (USA) are afraid of crime rising than any time in the past 20 years!” and crime only rose slightly… it’s the cart leading the horse.

karlzt 5y ago

Check: https://accountabletech.org/media/polling/ https://accountabletech.org/media/polling/ The majority of Americans voters believe that Facebook does more harm than good.

AniseAbyss 5y ago

Facebook is just the messenger, the real problem is American culture. Stop consuming US media and news. Unfortunately Canada is right next door.

vadfa 5y ago

If it's over 50% then it's no problem, they can just quit it without fearing network effects. There will be enough users in the new platform.

zepto 5y ago
What new platform? Why won’t the new platform be just as bad? Switching brand of cigarettes doesn’t protect your lungs.
- vadfa 5y ago
  It will be just as bad, I'm just mocking this stupid survey.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Fair comment!
- dylan604 5y ago
  Don't worry, we've switched to clean coal because it's better for the environment
- jszymborski 5y ago
  I think that's a fair point, but I wonder if I can probe HNs brain on what a "healthy" online social network would look like. Here are some thoughts I have: 1) The platform does not have a user-engagement incentive. 2) Personal network sizes are restricted. You can't be "friends" with everyone. Adding friends perhaps comes at some cost or is just strictly capped. 3) Sharing outside your friends network from the platform is not possible. This platform is for sharing with your friends, not the world. 4) Trust in the platform and how it shares your data. The easiest way to trust the server is if everything is E2EE, but we all know that's not trivial. Perhaps the limits in scaling E2EE can work synergistically with (2) and (3) (1) seems to be the hardest thing here in my mind. Anybody have thoughts on what could make a social network "healthy"?
  - pzo 5y ago
    some good points. I would add also: 5) limit how many posts / pictures / content you can share per day to avoid information overload. This should make people double thing what they are writing and hopefully more higher quality content. 6) automatically limit time spend for everyone on social media for e.g. 30-60 min per person per day. 7) Different business model than ads.

starik36 5y ago

It would be interesting to see whether people think news networks also harm their mental health.

Applejinx 5y ago
Once Facebook's got through with them, I'm sure people do think that. Quite aside from the deterioration of that medium, there's been good money in helping nefarious actors poison that well.
ArtDev 5y ago
Yes but I have found that, in the case of Google News, the content prioritized up by the algorithm tends to be things I am interested in; which tend to be more commercial in nature. For example, boardgames. If I was clicking on outrageous type news headlines, it might look different. I have disciplined my curiosity to not click on obnoxious viral headlines. I see a click as a vote, so I don't do that. Social Media is trickier because the media and the social part is mixed up. I quit social media about 7 months ago and I don't see going back.

macksd 5y ago

As a side note, I'm a little saddened when I see friends apologize for their posts. There's such a reaction to "influencer culture" that people feel like foodgrams and humblebrags are a terrible thing, and in excess they certainly can be, but I think from most people it's a billion times better than strawman political arguments and manipulative media that is far worse for our mental health than just comparing ourselves to someone's good day. I had a friend post a picture of food made from ingredients they had made in their own garden, and it made them feel so good to eat it because they had had a rough year and it was a good personal win, so they apologetically posted a photo of it. Forget the rest of the trash on Facebook - seeing a friend I haven't seen in a while experience something good and being able to share that with them is something we need more of in the world. I'd trade away all the "only geniuses can remember the order of operations for this future scam page" or "you won't believe how this person misrepresents their opponents views and tears that misrepresentation apart!" and keep stuff like this.

chickenfries 5y ago
I agree with you that I wish social media was full of more posts like this, but foodgrams and humble brags as you put it are also one of the reasons I avoid social media these days. Seeing a feed of the best moments of other peoples lives leaves me feeling depressed. "Comparison is the thief of joy." I'm happy for my friends, but seeing it all collected in one place makes my own life feel inadequate. I'm much happier when I avoid social media.
- darkerside 5y ago
  It's strange... I thought we were wired as a species to live vicariously, to feel joy when others are blessed, and feel pain when they suffer. You're not the only one that doesn't get that out of Facebook... Why? Is it the quantity? The format? What turns it into a place of covetousness and bitterness?
  - pmontra 5y ago
    Maybe the distance and the volume? I belong to some whatsapp and Telegram groups with people I know and I meet with at least every few months. We share stuff, even foodgrams. It's ok to hear from them. I can't just cope with all the stuff posted by some people I know but I didn't meet with for years. There are too many of them. I need time to live my life so I gave up Facebook, downsized my network and do things with people I meet.

rtoway 5y ago

Last I checked, studies on the issue of social media and mental health are pretty mixed and inconclusive. But it is a popular belief regardless

dylan604 5y ago
It's easy to click the button for the response you think people want to hear. Polls mean nothing except for the people being paid to run them.

distortedsignal 5y ago

Most important paragraph, IMO: > Conducted Oct. 8 to 10, the online poll surveyed 1,545 Canadians and cannot be assigned a margin of error because internet-based polls are not considered random samples. It's a pretty good sample-size, but we don't get error bars. I don't remember if there was anything FB-critical happening that week (when did the study about teen mental health come out?), but the timeframe could also affect the survey.

cblconfederate 5y ago
it 's not just missing error bars, this is not a sample, period. so it's not something reliable.
- xdavidliu 5y ago
  it is a sample. It's just not an unbiased sample [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics)#Kinds_of_samples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics)#Kinds_of_s...
  - hcrisp 5y ago
    Very unbiased. Only sampled people who were online and ostensibly only those who used Facebook. Since maybe ~60% of people use Facebook, I don't think the results speak for _all_ Canadians. If it did that's saying a lot for secondhand effects of social media platforms.
    - karmanyaahm 5y ago
      Not totally sure, but aren't people with extreme feelings more likely to answer a survey? Voluntary or nonresponse biases
      - itsoktocry 5y ago
        >Not totally sure, but... This kind of discourse is annoying. You don't get "points" for making some hypothetical claim. If you think there is something wrong with an analysis, demonstrate it. Isn't that what "pro-science" people do?

flycaliguy 5y ago

Yeah, I mean, this is among Canadians willing to fill out a survey online. Frankly it feels like another push in the media world to shift blame to FB. As far as specifically Canadian factors, maybe don’t survey us in October when the days are getting noticeably shorter? I feel like we are all a little melancholy right now preparing for our lightless morning commutes.

dr-detroit 5y ago
If you love being exploited by the ultra rich why dont you just move to Russia and let the rest of us at least try to avoid the social media brainscramble.
keewee7 5y ago
What I don't understand is the selective outrage against Facebook/Instagram. Why not Twitter, YouTube, reddit and TikTok?
- golemiprague 5y ago
  Because facebook give a place for not so lefty people to express their mind. Twitter and reddit are lefty so they are protected, Tiktok is Chinese so no political points gains attacking it since they don't care about some American opinion. Youtube people actually have to invest time and effort to make an engaging content so people at least have some basic appreciation for it.
- na85 5y ago
  Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, and TikTok don't have megalomaniac CEOs who got rich selling out their users to advertisers while spending that money on PR messages like "privacy is dead" and then turning around to buy all the mansions around theirs so that they can protect their privacy. Also there's that little itty bitty issue where Facebook was purposely manipulating people's timeline feeds to see if they could produce depression-like symptoms, without informed consent.
  - rndmind 5y ago

AzzieElbab 5y ago

what do most canadians think about the globe and mail?

version_five 5y ago
Yeah that was the first thing that went through my mind too. There are few traditional news outlets that don't try and incite rage driven attention. The globe and mail is not a tabloid (last I checked, I'm 10 years into a boycott) but it still tries to bait people into viewing its stories in a way that's tailored to its readership.
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  realized it's been that way forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMXyzOaaU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMXyzOaaU8

renewiltord 5y ago

I actually used to use Instagram quite a lot because it brought me quite a bit of happiness seeing what my friends were up to and IG had defensive measures to protect me: - The “you’re all caught up” screen that stops me from scrolling - The fact that stories signify whether they’re watched - The fact that my posts feed only contained followed stuff plus ads So there was the sense of “I’m caught up with my friends’ lives”. Anyway, they’ve changed it: - They now place random stuff below the list of my friends’ posts - They place people I don’t follow into the ad slots for stories Anyway, I use it much less now and we just end up sharing photos in group chats. Does anyone know of what a true IG replacement is? Like something for your friends and you.

kebman 5y ago

I make a conscious effort to not get sucked into Facebook. One rule I have is to never browse past the first ad unless I've got the day off. That minimizes a lot of the time I spend there. Unfortunately I am involved in a few special interest groups in there, but at least the information we share serves a purpose. For everything else, I simply use the standalone Messenger app. That way I can still keep in touch with my friends, without having to scroll through mostly pointless Fb posts and ads.

secondcoming 5y ago

Twitter is worse

legitster 5y ago

I know Facebook is the great evil, but we really need to start looking at the mental health impacts of all social media. The unhappiest people I know are not on Facebook - they are religiously devoted to Twitter and Reddit. Heck, I'd like to know what sort of damage this post right here is doing to me. This is our generation's smoking but everyone only wants to know how harmful Marlboros are. Edit: Please upvote this more. I need to feel like my views are validated.

ferdowsi 5y ago
Reddit is an interesting one. Since it's an anonymous experience, I guess it'd be the same issues with any internet community. It can be stressful to see seemingly abhorrent viewpoints in such concentrated numbers. And it can be stressful when you feel a community is turning against you, even if your connections to that community are extremely tendentious.
- legitster 5y ago
  I think Reddit is uniquely harmful to its users in several ways, maybe even moreso than Facebook: - Users get an intense, one-sided parasocial relationship but with no upside of even communicating directly with each other - The hivemind effect is very real, and using Reddit often gives people a very false sense of superiority of their knowledge on any given topics - Misinformation is rife. Even outside of the conspiracy hubs. It's amazing how many of the "front page" posts are often misleading or slanted - Astroturfing and content farming is even more prevalent but with less moderation.
  - uDontKnowMe 5y ago
    It's interesting you call relationships on Reddit para-social, I don't know if that quite fits the word because Reddit is more of a two-way reciprocal relationship between commenters. Perhaps Twitter fits that description better since you get a lot of power users like Trump and other celebrities which broadcast out to their followers but don't typically respond to normies.
5y ago

hk1337 5y ago

Facebook certainly has a good amount of blame but you also have to take some responsibility yourself if you keep logging on every day.

reliablity 5y ago

I stopped using Facebook for over 3 years now and I have been happier. I am still connected to friends, family and community over whatsapp. WhatsApp is much better because you are only connected with your friends, groups and not the whole world.

hansoolo 5y ago
Do you actually have not stopped using Facebook?

azangru 5y ago

Why don't they quit then?

quadrangle 5y ago
You can ask that for every single behavior that anyone claims goes against their deeper values like good health. Why do people keep smoking or eating junk food or staying up too late or yelling at family and friends when they lose their temper? It's true that deeds speak louder than words. But it's also true that habits are hard to break, and there's the thinking-fast-and-slow ideas that our judgments, actions, and values are different when we are in the immediate flow of emotion vs considering the big picture with detachment. If you ask "why" in a sincere curious way, there's a ton of interesting things to investigate. I hope that was the attitude you meant as opposed to the anti-curious condescending "why" that amounts to just being a doubter.
- azangru 5y ago
  > If you ask "why" in a sincere curious way No, I was asking why in a frustrated rhetorical way. I get annoyed by the frequency with which people complain about social media, which is usually followed by requests for a government intervention or for a stricter moderation by the network owners. Just quit, I want to say. The internet is huge. Find yourself another hobby. A better network. Or, if you think you are addicted, as you may be to alcohol or drugs, seek help. It should be your responsibility, don't put it on others.
  - quadrangle 5y ago
    Thanks for your honest clarification. I totally get your reaction, and I have similar reactions myself all the time. Some wisdom I got from elsewhere which I'm still working to practice is to eat-your-projections. We notice how other people are complainers and blamers and they make excuses and don't take responsibility. So, we turn it around and ask, "how am I being a complainer and blamer?" And we might notice how we're complaining about the complainers. And best to find this self-reflection humorous. If we switch to blaming ourselves for complaining, we're still blaming and complaining. Ideally, we find some empathy as we realize now something about how the complainers feel, and we realize that we didn't stop to be really curious about what is going on in their experience. I agree with you completely about the value of taking responsibility. It's SO SO hard (I'm speaking for myself here!) to turn that around and literally ask, "what am I doing to take responsibility for this situation?" I.e. the situation in which other people were complaining, and their complaining triggered you, and you're unconsciously blaming them for your annoyed feelings instead of taking responsibility for your failure to be stoic. Sorry for all the meta, this is stuff I am practicing, and it really seems the only "out" to the pattern. And really, take everything I just wrote as me noticing your patterns because I have them myself. I'm working on leading by example before telling you what you "should" do ("shoulding you" in one way to say it). I'm laughing about this and about myself here, so I hope somehow that comes across in this overlong plain-text which I should expect to be misunderstood if I take my own damn advice. Haha ;)

greenail 5y ago

The knee jerk reaction to this is likely one to push for regulation but I don't think that is the solution. We should keep in mind that we still have choice, we can choose not to use Facebook. That choice is likely to have a powerful effect on the direction Facebook (or any other platform) takes. My fear is that government control of social media is such a tempting power it would be hard for politicians not abuse it. It strikes me that this is more of an issue with our culture than anything. That begs the question: can we choose to self moderate social media? The pandemic sure isn't helping.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
> we can choose not to use Facebook You're looking at this from a western perspective. Some non-western countries are entirely linked by Facebook products. When Facebook went down last week, some people couldn't access their BANKS. You OK with that? That's what Facebook wants: to become something you simply MUST use to survive. It goes deeper in the US as well but not as deep: some restaurants and small shops don't have websites, they have facebook/instragram pages, which means I cannot access them. We need legislation to stop Facebook creep, because that "creep" eventually makes it mandatory.
- Minor49er 5y ago
  > You're looking at this from a western perspective. Some non-western countries are entirely linked by Facebook products. When Facebook went down last week, some people couldn't access their BANKS. You OK with that? Wasn't this because DNS servers were effectively DDoS'd when applications overwhelmed them with requests looking for Facebook without caching the response? Or are there actually banks out there that require Facebook to log in?
  - pzo 5y ago
    So many people these days instead of creating separate account to some websites (login/password) the use instead integrated Login via Facebook button. I tried to educate friends and family not to use this feature even for the reason that if their FB account will be blocked they will loose access to many other websites. However many people give up because it's not so convenient as to just clicking one FB button.

RealityVoid 5y ago

I used to think, untill recently, that Facebook was just a tool and all this hatred was overblown. After all, I modulated my use of it just fine. My usage is sparse, and I use messenger to talk with people I know, it kept us together. I can see how community and bringing old friends together is precious. But, recently, I realized someone I used to be very close has mental problems. Undiagnosed, but there is no other way I can explain his behaviour to myself. Obsessive behaviour, can only talk about his conspiratorial obsession, erratic, spends most of his time "learning" about a specific conspiracy. And I see how Facebook is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. And then I look on my dad's wall, and saw the same hatred and resentment growing, and it scared me, the possibility he might drift even more this way. Now I changed my mind. I think it is harmful and it does induce bad states in people that would otherwise be better, or at least... Surrounded by better support systems. But I still think it's not _just_ Facebook. It's a confluence of factors.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
This happened to a family member, they had undiagnosed schizophrenia and started posting craaaaaazy stuff on YouTube, got a following of fellow like-minded folk that only made things worse until it all exploded into a huge melt down / insane asylum situation. Crazy times.
whimsicalism 5y ago
I think FB is probably bad, but I've also noticed that people have a tendency to blame delusional mental illnesses on whatever a person was going through/up to at the time it onset when it is often more like a timer went off.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  Yes, most likely the ilness would be there even without Facebook. But the platform enables some destructive behavior while in the real life, I hope, more productive support structures could exist. While mental illness is something you might be biologically predisposed, the outcome can vary wildly with or without support structures and good help. And I think on this end Facebook is profoundly destructive.

FpUser 5y ago

I think in this particular case the problem is not FB but people themselves. I am Canadian and it does not harm my mental health for a simple reason that I simply do not use FB or other "social media". I really do not give a hoot about somebody else's lifestyle and what they had for dinner.

remir 5y ago

Social media, ultimately, is information. There is no point in polarizing Facebook as good or bad. It is access to certain types of information and one must learn to discern if it can serve them or not.

r00fus 5y ago
Rootkits are information, too. Why do we have anti-malware functionality built into our systems/networks? Yes, I am am making the analogy that large parts of FB are equivalent to malware.
white-flame 5y ago
Facebook (and most other businesses in the space) is a system of manipulating and editorializing individuals' social communication in order to extract engagement-related profit. This is not a common carrier, but an active distorter.
stemlord 5y ago
Wrong, facebook is a politically involved corporate entity. Additionally they've proven relentlessly over the past decade plus to give zero fucks about improving their scorched earth method of making money.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

So social media turns out to be like alcohol. Possible to use in moderation, but abused to negative health detriments by most partakers.

cortexio 5y ago

What i dont understand is that i always see these negative articles about "facebook". What about twitter or instagram??? It almost feels like propaganda, even though i agree with those canadians to some extend.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

It’s interesting comparing this to internet pornography, which is bigger than FB as a whole, and which (according to youth self surveys) harms mental health (according to ~60% in some surveys).

yodsanklai 5y ago

Getting a bit tired of the Facebook bashing. Everyday some posts make the front page and don't provide any new or interesting information.

pmlnr 5y ago

... and so they stopped using it. Oh, right. That's never what follows.

cronix 5y ago

I'm getting kind of tired of the narrative that "x is evil/bad/harmful, but I'm too weak (we won't admit addiction) to not use x. Everyone I know uses x. Government needs to regulate x (so I don't have to change my ways)." I deleted my account over a year ago now, because I do view them as evil and do cause overall societal harm. It's not life ending. You'll adjust and then wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I made the choice for myself. The only people you'll lose touch with were superficial relationships to begin with. Do you honestly care what that dude you went to gradeschool with but haven't seen for 30 years does? Real relationships don't depend on x platform. All they require is you, and the other person.

arduinomancer 5y ago
I dunno On one hand I get it because having a global centralized media source running bleeding edge optimization algorithms against humans is highly unprecedented till recently. But at the same time I don't like the trend in recent years to completely "minimize individual responsibility" It makes sense why these narratives are popular too. It means I don't have to admit my lack of discipline.
bjt2n3904 5y ago
Slight nitpick. The argument isn't, "so I don't have to change my behaviors." The argument is, OTHER people are too weak to change their behaviors, so we need to have the government regulate THEIR behavior. (The greater good.) It's bad enough to be lazy and want someone else to fix your problems. It's almost worse to decide you know what other people's problems are, and decide what needs to happen for them. (Or phrased differently... What needs to happen to them.)
- munk-a 5y ago
  No - since this is a social network this isn't all about personal responsibility. People hate-use facebook because everyone hate-uses facebook. There is no sane alternative because everyone needs to hate-use the same platform to be on it with everyone else.
  - 5y ago

newaccount2021 5y ago

as someone born and educated in Canada, I must say that as a nation they are some of the most feeble-minded people on Earth "being Canadian" has devolved down to a pathetic fake-smugness predicated on cherry-picked comparisons with the US. there is NOTHING else to being a Canadian in 2021. Canada is already the worst choice for businesses in the age of NAFTA. Zuck should just pull FB out of Canada entirely and leave Canadians with the CBC...the net impact on profits will be negligible at best, and long term it will benefit FB to be rid of these crybabies as for everyone else, if you don't have the willpower to log out of FB, you're just pathetic on so many levels and you deserve degraded mental health

999900000999 5y ago

I'm so happy to see awareness around the negative mental health effects of social media. You also don't get all that much from it, back when I was heavy into social media I was miserable, online dating never brought me a worthwhile person. The rare times I'd actually meet a real person, it was almost certain to be someone who was 30 plus and not interested in working. Deleted all my online dating profiles, limited my social media usage and I was making fantastic friends and meeting amazing girls in real life. This was very good for my mental health, during some of my really dark moments I'd spend hours per day on Reddit and Facebook arguing with other angry people. We don't need to be angry, you don't need to argue. You don't need to give the Match group $60 a month to chat with bots. You can still wave at someone at a concert and ask if they want drinks after the show.

joe_the_user 5y ago
It seems like there's a standard format "I quit social media and everything is great" post. Usually the poster implies they stepped into ready-made in-real-life contacts and maybe they did. But the implication that this is generally viable strategy for everyone seems wrong.

palidanx 5y ago

What I've realized about Facebook is that there is no way I can convey a really convey anything really meaningful in such a short post. What I started doing is writing a quarterly e-mail newsletter to about 80 of my closest friends and family about details thoughts I've had about life, travel, and personal experiences. Some friends have told me I should write a blog and put all my thoughts out there on the Internet, but I think this kind of defeats the whole purpose to share something intimate to a smaller crowd that the general Internet will never see.

angelzen 5y ago

https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674 https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674 > How do I permanently delete my Facebook account?

karmanyaahm 5y ago

Maybe voluntary response bias?

intrasight 5y ago

FB happens to be the platform by which people share. In an alternative universe where "ShareBook" was the dominant micro-blobbing platform, that would have been the target of these critiques. Depressed people says something about those people and about our culture in general.

throwawaybchr 5y ago

Most Canadians can stop using it then This entire topic is very silly. Parents are free to forbid their kids from using it. Adults can make their own decisions. What it is starting to become is that people want other people to stop using it because they want them to consume the content that they see fit.

uptownfunk 5y ago

Repeat after me: "I can be happy and thrive without social media." Here is how you become a billionaire today- Step 1: Create some thing people want to indulge in, whether or not it is healthy or good for them (as long as it's legal). Step 2: Convince them that it is good for them. Step 3: Acquire anyone else who tries to do the same or squash them out aggressively. Rinse and repeat.

uptownfunk 5y ago

Anyone ever think about getting rid of their smart phone and going back to a flip phone? Honestly, I'm tempted to try this experiment.

causalmodels 5y ago

Self reporting is a notoriously bad measure. It would be nice if we had actual, measurable data to go on.

amatecha 5y ago

"the online poll surveyed 1,545 Canadians" Sorry, but 0.00004% [0] of Canadians can't remotely be described as "most". Unfortunately, the qualifying words "survey suggests" was chopped off the end of the article title, making it seem far more of an authoritative assertion than it really is. :( [0] 1545 / 38246108 estimated population as per https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210929/dq210929c-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210929/dq210...

mlang23 5y ago

Apparently, canadians are a smart bunch!

subliminalpanda 5y ago

https://archive.is/St4NG https://archive.is/St4NG

Unklejoe 5y ago

It always seemed pretty obvious to me. Everyone is fake on social media, but it's not always apparent that it's fake (it it was, then it would defeat the purpose). What happens when it seems like literally everyone is living a better life than you? You feel like shit.

glonq 5y ago

It's true, but TBH so do the Leafs.

kyleblarson 5y ago

I'd say most sane people don't only believe that social media in general is unhealthy, they know it. Some might push for regulation but I would just suggest these people quit it all. I did so a few years ago (well I guess with the exception of HN) and haven't looked back. Sure I might not learn about a high school acquaintance's new baby or the like but the people I truly care about know how to get in touch with me and vice versa.

passivate 5y ago
I use it to promote my hobbies (digital art, photography). I don't believe it is unhealthy in general. Calling people who don't agree with you insane is not really a great way to have a healthy conversation.

designertop 5y ago

I've been hearing this for over 5 years now, but social media is still booming, and most people are still on Facebook, and similar apps, and spending more time than ever. It feels weird as if everyone agrees, and knows that smoking kills but continue to smokes more and more.

Applejinx 5y ago
Almost as if there are exploitable addictive properties that can be analyzed, maximized, monetized. To KNOW is not gonna change anything much. It's the nature of the beast.
ahevia 5y ago
I’ve asked this question to a few non-tech friends. They definitely know and recognize the harms of using social media, but for many them just struggle to quit. They don’t even know how to put their addictions into words. There were a few who also used it because it’s easy to keep up with family or friends who might live far away (which is a really valid use case!) and have no problem quitting it or never checking. These products are designed to be addicting. My hypothesis is that folks might recognize the harm but since the downside is reducing the quality of your mental state (FB doesn’t increase your risk of cancer ala smoking). It’s just not a priority to fix the addiction.
smegger001 5y ago
Alcoholics know they are destroying their liver buy still drink, heavy caffeine addicts know their sleep cycle is being disrupted but still drink coffee. Thing is, there is a socially acceptable amount that not significantly destructive. I can drink a coffee at 8 am and still get to sleep, I can have a beer at the monthly game night and still have a functional healthy liver. How much social media can I consume and not fall in depression, compulsive behavior or be polarized in a fringe ideology? Well for me I have mostly quit Facebook (other than messenger and using it for event scheduling for game night.) I don't do TikTok, Twitter, or Instagram. I only use Reddit for niche interest/hobbies and deleted all the default subs. I only use Snapchat to talk to a couple of people because its the best way to get ahold of them, and then there a couple of forums like hackernews i lurk and occasionaly post in and that enough for me. Used in moderation social media is fine. Just like a beer every month or so or a coffee in the morning

kazinator 5y ago

The title is falsified within a few sentences of the story, where it becomes clear that: Most Canadians believe that Facebook harms the mental health of others; their own use of Facebook is healthy and fine. Facebook issues are everyone else's problem, not mine, believes the average Facebook user.

trapatsas 5y ago

What mental health?

birtoise 5y ago

Why do they use it then? Just stop using. Damn ppl are dumb. “Oh it hurts when i poke my eye with a needle guess i will keep doing that for 3h everyday”

Jonanin 5y ago
Because people's stated and revealed preferences on this topic are drastically different.
tomlin 5y ago
found Zuck's sockpuppet
achr2 5y ago
Facebook and it's ilk are one of the most addictive forces ever conceived. It's hard enough to change significantly embedded habits, nearly impossible when those behaviours are expertly designed and continually refined to be as pervasive, addictive, and manipulative as possible.

abrokenpipe 5y ago

I never had an issue with facebook (granted I haven't used either for years), rather instagram. When I was in college instagram really took a toll on my mental health. I'd see friends post the exact same photos as I did and get 2x-3x-4x more likes, and I'd follow people who wouldn't follow me back, It made me question my self worth or social standing. I think facebooks system of "friends" rather than "followers" and reduced emphasis on likes is much less harmful, I always felt like I was being rated in front of everyone on insta. Looking back on it, it really bothers me because I had a lot of good friends that I am still close with, partied a lot, had good relationships, and overall had a really good college experience. I feel like instagram took a bit of that away from me. At some point I realized this and deleted the app, shortly after I was happy as could be.

stormbrew 5y ago

This is a link to the actual poll details from Leger, who conducted it. Contrary to a lot of the replies here that seem to think it was just a haphazard facebook poll or something, it's an online panel poll: https://leger360.com/surveys/legers-north-american-tracker-october-13-2021/ https://leger360.com/surveys/legers-north-american-tracker-o...