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Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you actually think I said he was a court jester?? Do you think that $368,000[1] of public money for a small local gover

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you actually think I said he was a court jester?? Do you think that $368,000[1] of public money for a small local government is a "paltry sum" , or that the amount of money changes whether a politician should have to follow proper processes? I know lots of people wouldn't think it's a problem and I'm an old curmudgeon. Lots of people are fine with low level corruption and poor practices that can lead to corruption or the appearance of corruption. I acknowledged that the very first thing I said, if that also wasn't clear. [1] Sure its NZD but come on that's got to be at least 80 real dollars.

amcoastal 5y ago
Have you thought this through at all? There are so many instances of local governments paying single artists for their art that isn't a problem. Have you walked around a city and enjoyed murals or art installations? Do you see those and your hair stands up on your neck worrying about the bidding process for those pieces? Why do you not want people to have nice things.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  You didn't answer my questions, but I'll be polite and answer yours. Yes, yes, and yes. Have you thought about it at all? You clearly completely missed the point with my example when you triumphantly announced he isn't anyone's brother. You don't know what he does for the person giving him public money. Similarly way off the point saying he's not a jester. Why should a jester not be allowed to have public money but a "wizard" can? > There are so many instances of local governments paying single artists for their art that isn't a problem. Non sequitur. I can't quite fathom this thinking. There are lots of instances of local governments paying for lots of things, and lots of instances of corruption in local government. > Have you walked around a city and enjoyed murals or art installations? Do you see those and your hair stands up on your neck worrying about the bidding process for those pieces? Yes absolutely if they are or seem questionable. > Why do you not want people to have nice things. Pathetic.
Aeolun 5y ago
My point is that he’s actually providing a service (or has been anyway). These things become problematic when no service is provided, or the quality of service is lower than you would have gotten otherwise. Clearly service was provided for going on 20 years, so that’s just fact. I also think that $18.000 NZD per year, for any local government, hell, even for a corner bakery, is a paltry amount. That’s below minimum wage anywhere that I know of.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > These things become problematic when no service is provided, or the quality of service is lower than you would have gotten otherwise. No, they are a problem when the process is not transparent or fair and open to others and don't have some modicum of value for money estimations performed. > I also think that $18.000 NZD per year, for any local government, hell, even for a corner bakery, is a paltry amount. That’s below minimum wage anywhere that I know of. I don't know what that has to do with how "fair" the money for the service was. He was not an employee, he was not being paid a salary to do a full time job. He got $368,000 for... something. Continuing his public performances that he was doing anyway and would have continued to do. Doesn't sound like the local tax payer got anything at all out of it. The politicians bought themselves a publicity stunt.
dane-pgp 5y ago
> at least 80 real dollars. By "real" you presumably mean "Bohemian": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#History
vel0city 5y ago
Over the course of 20 years $368k isn't a whole ton of money for a local government budget. $1,533/mo. That's NZ$0.004/mo per resident. Besides, he was providing somewhat of a public good in terms of tourism. It wasn't like he was just collecting a paycheck doing absolutely nothing. It doesn't appear he has any family or other business connections with that local government from a quick glance, so honestly his position seems about the same as any other local government employee. Is hiring a gardener giving an appearance of corruption as well?
- lostlogin 5y ago
  The population of Christchurch is 395,000ish, depending on what you include. How do you calculate $0.004 per month?
  - vel0city 5y ago
    368,000 total compensation / 20 years gives annual income. Per year / 12 months gives per month of $1,533. $1,533 wizard's monthly income / 395,000 population is ~0.0038810. I originally used a population of 390,000 which is ~0.0039308. I then just rounded to the nearest thousandth for the comment as I figured fractions of a penny that small are somewhat meaningless to my comment.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      Thank you, not sure why I couldn’t do that, but I couldn’t.

amcoastal 5y ago

Have you thought this through at all? There are so many instances of local governments paying single artists for their art that isn't a problem. Have you walked around a city and enjoyed murals or art installations? Do you see those and your hair stands up on your neck worrying about the bidding process for those pieces? Why do you not want people to have nice things.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
You didn't answer my questions, but I'll be polite and answer yours. Yes, yes, and yes. Have you thought about it at all? You clearly completely missed the point with my example when you triumphantly announced he isn't anyone's brother. You don't know what he does for the person giving him public money. Similarly way off the point saying he's not a jester. Why should a jester not be allowed to have public money but a "wizard" can? > There are so many instances of local governments paying single artists for their art that isn't a problem. Non sequitur. I can't quite fathom this thinking. There are lots of instances of local governments paying for lots of things, and lots of instances of corruption in local government. > Have you walked around a city and enjoyed murals or art installations? Do you see those and your hair stands up on your neck worrying about the bidding process for those pieces? Yes absolutely if they are or seem questionable. > Why do you not want people to have nice things. Pathetic.

Aeolun 5y ago

My point is that he’s actually providing a service (or has been anyway). These things become problematic when no service is provided, or the quality of service is lower than you would have gotten otherwise. Clearly service was provided for going on 20 years, so that’s just fact. I also think that $18.000 NZD per year, for any local government, hell, even for a corner bakery, is a paltry amount. That’s below minimum wage anywhere that I know of.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
> These things become problematic when no service is provided, or the quality of service is lower than you would have gotten otherwise. No, they are a problem when the process is not transparent or fair and open to others and don't have some modicum of value for money estimations performed. > I also think that $18.000 NZD per year, for any local government, hell, even for a corner bakery, is a paltry amount. That’s below minimum wage anywhere that I know of. I don't know what that has to do with how "fair" the money for the service was. He was not an employee, he was not being paid a salary to do a full time job. He got $368,000 for... something. Continuing his public performances that he was doing anyway and would have continued to do. Doesn't sound like the local tax payer got anything at all out of it. The politicians bought themselves a publicity stunt.

dane-pgp 5y ago

> at least 80 real dollars. By "real" you presumably mean "Bohemian": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#History

vel0city 5y ago

Over the course of 20 years $368k isn't a whole ton of money for a local government budget. $1,533/mo. That's NZ$0.004/mo per resident. Besides, he was providing somewhat of a public good in terms of tourism. It wasn't like he was just collecting a paycheck doing absolutely nothing. It doesn't appear he has any family or other business connections with that local government from a quick glance, so honestly his position seems about the same as any other local government employee. Is hiring a gardener giving an appearance of corruption as well?

lostlogin 5y ago
The population of Christchurch is 395,000ish, depending on what you include. How do you calculate $0.004 per month?
- vel0city 5y ago
  368,000 total compensation / 20 years gives annual income. Per year / 12 months gives per month of $1,533. $1,533 wizard's monthly income / 395,000 population is ~0.0038810. I originally used a population of 390,000 which is ~0.0039308. I then just rounded to the nearest thousandth for the comment as I figured fractions of a penny that small are somewhat meaningless to my comment.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Thank you, not sure why I couldn’t do that, but I couldn’t.