5 ms·

You're making a lot of assumptions here, some of which are incorrect in my opinion. If anything, WSL is making Linux more irrelevant as a development environme

You're making a lot of assumptions here, some of which are incorrect in my opinion. If anything, WSL is making Linux more irrelevant as a development environment, and Windows 11 is going to take this to the next level (take a look at Hanselman's demo video [1]). Yes, production runs in majority on Linux but development happens massively on Windows. With macOS a distant second and Linux barely used as desktops. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4VYjxzx2us https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4VYjxzx2us

DeathArrow 5y ago
You can even use the full Visual Studio to develop for Linux, Android and iOS.
sidkshatriya 5y ago
The fact that Microsoft was compelled to add a subsystem for Linux shows which way the technology momentum is.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  It just shows that servers run Linux. Because there is the majority of the development happening.
  - sidkshatriya 5y ago
    Which is just the point I'm making: develop for Linux and don't worry about development for the Windows platform in 2021 (for most scenarios). And if you're using WSL you are using Linux effectively. Windows is just that UI around you. Microsoft makes some good products/services and I think they have shifted in strategy. They are not so interested in what _specific_ APIs/OS you use (Win32 or Linux ...) as long as you do it "inside" Windows on the Desktop or on Azure in the Cloud. It clear that the Linux platform is dominating because Linux is everywhere from servers to mobiles. One of the parent comments was complaining about lack of good _native_ windows support in Crystal. I've responded to why it may not be critical to have good _native_ windows support anymore above in detail...
    - egeozcan 5y ago
      People are really thinking too much into the possibilities. Many people also don't use WSL. Many don't even have the basic nix tools on their path. You may say that they aren't your target audience, but many new technologies weren't popular until they made them their target audience.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Windows NT already had POSIX support. They also realized that the crowd that buys Macs to do UNIX development doesn't care about Linux, they only want a POSIX like environment. And since GNU/Linux has eroded the other UNIXes, the Linux kernel ABI has become more relevant than POSIX, that is all.
pkulak 5y ago
I'm going to watch that video tomorrow because this stuff is fascinating and I really want to see what amazing stuff MSFT has come up with now, with WSL already being pretty darn good. That said, it's still a VM and Windows is still a PITA to deal with. Just today I wanted install a script as a Windows service. Windows won't do it. You have to Google for 20 minutes, then download some .exe and use that as a wrapper. The simplest things are difficult or impossible, and I don't think shoving your life into a VM is going to solve all that.
- egeozcan 5y ago
  > Windows is still a PITA to deal with I think even a big chunk of Windows users would agree with that too. However, the point is, it's still massively, unbelievably popular and not supporting Windows is like having a web app that doesn't run on Safari (which IMHO also suck from a developers perspective, pretty okay when just using). You can get away with it, yes, but your audience will be (depending on context) unnecessarily limited.
  - pkulak 5y ago
    Yeah, I did kinda argue next to your point. haha
- vips7L 5y ago
  Power shells New-Service command didn’t work for you??
  - pkulak 5y ago
    I did use something from the terminal (no idea what terminal, there's like 4...), and it installed, but then when I ran it it timed out. Finally found something called "NSSM", and that worked a treat. Of course, only after wading through 100 paid clones with huge Google Ad budgets.
chillfox 5y ago
Looking forward to watching that video. But to be honest, Windows is a gaming console for me. My Windows box is hooked up to a 40' tv and has an Xbox controller attached. Work is something I do on a Ubuntu machine.
southerntofu 5y ago
How is WSL making GNU/Linux distros irrelevant? I've been running Windows apps on my system for maybe 15 years with Wine but somehow that hasn't made Windows irrelevant, in spite of my best wishes.
- hota_mazi 5y ago
  It makes running Linux as a primary OS irrelevant. Linux on the desktop has always been a joke, but it's even more irrelevant now. You run Windows as your main development OS and when you're ready to deploy your app to Linux, you launch WSL or run a CI/CD pipeline. But there is now zero reason to ever run Linux as the main OS on your desktop.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > But there is now zero reason to ever run Linux as the main OS on your desktop. s/Linux/Windows/ /s More seriously, i don't understand your point. Just because you're happy with Microsoft's practices doesn't mean free distros are all "a joke" or "irrelevant". Many people use GNU/Linux as a daily driver and we're more than satisfied. Personal opinion: i just don't understand the appeal for Windows. MacOS at least has some design/UX guidelines which you can like or dislike but they're consistent about... Windows has just so many anti-patterns i don't have enough fingers to count. The only times i ever needed windows was because of phone-related crapware, and even then Wine was more than enough. Why would i need Windows at all?

DeathArrow 5y ago

You can even use the full Visual Studio to develop for Linux, Android and iOS.

sidkshatriya 5y ago

The fact that Microsoft was compelled to add a subsystem for Linux shows which way the technology momentum is.

DeathArrow 5y ago
It just shows that servers run Linux. Because there is the majority of the development happening.
- sidkshatriya 5y ago
  Which is just the point I'm making: develop for Linux and don't worry about development for the Windows platform in 2021 (for most scenarios). And if you're using WSL you are using Linux effectively. Windows is just that UI around you. Microsoft makes some good products/services and I think they have shifted in strategy. They are not so interested in what _specific_ APIs/OS you use (Win32 or Linux ...) as long as you do it "inside" Windows on the Desktop or on Azure in the Cloud. It clear that the Linux platform is dominating because Linux is everywhere from servers to mobiles. One of the parent comments was complaining about lack of good _native_ windows support in Crystal. I've responded to why it may not be critical to have good _native_ windows support anymore above in detail...
  - egeozcan 5y ago
    People are really thinking too much into the possibilities. Many people also don't use WSL. Many don't even have the basic nix tools on their path. You may say that they aren't your target audience, but many new technologies weren't popular until they made them their target audience.
pjmlp 5y ago
Windows NT already had POSIX support. They also realized that the crowd that buys Macs to do UNIX development doesn't care about Linux, they only want a POSIX like environment. And since GNU/Linux has eroded the other UNIXes, the Linux kernel ABI has become more relevant than POSIX, that is all.

pkulak 5y ago

I'm going to watch that video tomorrow because this stuff is fascinating and I really want to see what amazing stuff MSFT has come up with now, with WSL already being pretty darn good. That said, it's still a VM and Windows is still a PITA to deal with. Just today I wanted install a script as a Windows service. Windows won't do it. You have to Google for 20 minutes, then download some .exe and use that as a wrapper. The simplest things are difficult or impossible, and I don't think shoving your life into a VM is going to solve all that.

egeozcan 5y ago
> Windows is still a PITA to deal with I think even a big chunk of Windows users would agree with that too. However, the point is, it's still massively, unbelievably popular and not supporting Windows is like having a web app that doesn't run on Safari (which IMHO also suck from a developers perspective, pretty okay when just using). You can get away with it, yes, but your audience will be (depending on context) unnecessarily limited.
- pkulak 5y ago
  Yeah, I did kinda argue next to your point. haha
vips7L 5y ago
Power shells New-Service command didn’t work for you??
- pkulak 5y ago
  I did use something from the terminal (no idea what terminal, there's like 4...), and it installed, but then when I ran it it timed out. Finally found something called "NSSM", and that worked a treat. Of course, only after wading through 100 paid clones with huge Google Ad budgets.

chillfox 5y ago

Looking forward to watching that video. But to be honest, Windows is a gaming console for me. My Windows box is hooked up to a 40' tv and has an Xbox controller attached. Work is something I do on a Ubuntu machine.

southerntofu 5y ago

How is WSL making GNU/Linux distros irrelevant? I've been running Windows apps on my system for maybe 15 years with Wine but somehow that hasn't made Windows irrelevant, in spite of my best wishes.

hota_mazi 5y ago
It makes running Linux as a primary OS irrelevant. Linux on the desktop has always been a joke, but it's even more irrelevant now. You run Windows as your main development OS and when you're ready to deploy your app to Linux, you launch WSL or run a CI/CD pipeline. But there is now zero reason to ever run Linux as the main OS on your desktop.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > But there is now zero reason to ever run Linux as the main OS on your desktop. s/Linux/Windows/ /s More seriously, i don't understand your point. Just because you're happy with Microsoft's practices doesn't mean free distros are all "a joke" or "irrelevant". Many people use GNU/Linux as a daily driver and we're more than satisfied. Personal opinion: i just don't understand the appeal for Windows. MacOS at least has some design/UX guidelines which you can like or dislike but they're consistent about... Windows has just so many anti-patterns i don't have enough fingers to count. The only times i ever needed windows was because of phone-related crapware, and even then Wine was more than enough. Why would i need Windows at all?