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Odd to see my hometown here on HN, though many HNers are from here. Calgary has some unique issues -- the major ones being that the politics of the province are

Odd to see my hometown here on HN, though many HNers are from here. Calgary has some unique issues -- the major ones being that the politics of the province are brutally toxic and this has halted and even reversed a lot of gains we made in the last decade trying to turn it around. Oil and gas dying is part of the problem, but ask many new grads from local universities why they are leaving and the answer is mainly that this is just not the place for them. That's a terrible sign for the future. The comment by julianlam elsewhere in this thread reminded me of a time I toured a local startup's office who had "reclaimed" an executive level of a previous oil and gas company. The entire floor was decorated like a Roman Emperor's quarters and the boardroom table itself was worth somewhere north of $200k (possibly as much as half a millon).

izend 5y ago
Timely article today in CBC News: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/young-albertans-leaving-the-province-1.6208420 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/young-albertans-leavi...
MattGaiser 5y ago
> Oil and gas dying is part of the problem, but ask many new grads from local universities why they are leaving and the answer is mainly that this is just not the place for them. That's a terrible sign for the future I am a young guy in Calgary and from Calgary. More than half my high school classmates are gone. Packed up to Vancouver or Toronto, with a few stateside. Most came back after university for a bit, but then departed.
- sunsunsunsun 5y ago
  I had the same experience, nearly all the people I knew from high school left Calgary/Alberta. Including myself. The few people who stayed work in oil and gas.
- cmauniada 5y ago
  Also from Calgary and just graduated, all of the people I knew from my group have moved to the states. Not really sure what I’m doing here but I enjoy my job so I don’t think I’ll move anytime soon.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  This is true a lot of places though. The minute people finish high school or post secondary they leave. I guess the difference is most people are moving from smaller places to cities for work and Calgary in theory should be a city where people would want to stay.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    Not only that, but Calgary was the place young people were coming just 5-10 years ago. We were (and in many ways still are) a really young city.
refurb 5y ago
Alberta has always been boom and bust, ever since oil was first discovered. There was an old bumper sticker from the 80's "Give Alberta another oil boom and I swear I won't waste it". Office space vacancies in Calgary are nothing new. The economy will recover, people will forget the hard times, new buildings will go up and we'll do it all over again. Back in the late 1990's/early 2000's it had a tech boom feel to it. Newly graduated engineers and geologists making the equivalent of $200,000 at 22. A friend from high school dropped out of his 2nd year of university because he could get a job paying $100,000 right now. Plenty of new vehicle, boats and new construction. The Calgary-Edmonton corridor is one of the wealthiest areas in Canada. Alberta had the highest level of in-migration for a long time. And keep in mind oil is now at $80/barrel and climbing. Those sweet, sweet oil royalties will be flowing into gov't coffers soon enough.
- mabbo 5y ago
  > "Give Alberta another oil boom and I swear I won't waste it". I immediately hear Ron Howard's voice (Arrested Development narrator) saying "They did waste it".
  - asah 5y ago
    It seems that this is the default. Norway is a notable exception.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      > It seems that this is the default. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
    - atatatat 5y ago
      Benevolent dictators are the way to go, if you can only find one.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Luckily Norway is rather solid democracy.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
I left Alberta (Edmonton) in 1996 for much the same reasons. Moved to Toronto to take part in the .com thing. It's an ongoing cycle and seems to get worse on the downside of every bust. Sometimes I imagine going back, because my elderly parents are there and my brother is there and I still have lots of friends there. But I can't imagine transplanting my children into that province. Like you said, the politics are toxic.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  I usually think of politics as a country-level issue, so it's hard for me to understand your point - can you elaborate on how does "toxic politics" on a city level look like that would make me not want to live there? Poor quality of municipal services caused by e.g. waste and corruption; or something entirely different?
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    You're missing a level with this - the provincial government is the issue. If you're American, think of how Florida has been dealing with COVID or how Texan electricity policies have affected things lately - it's that sort of thing. The provincial government launched us into the #1 COVID spot in Canada (we were competing with some of the worst America states for a while) and they have consistently doubled down on bad bets and bad policies focusing on what used to be rather than accepting the new reality that Alberta needs to start planning for the future.
  - AMerrit 5y ago
    They likely mean Alberta provincial politics, which are kind of a mess. The current provincial government has done poorly with the COVID situation, and has spent as much effort battling cartoons on Netflix for being too "anti oil & gas" as anything.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    Canada is a highly federal country. In some ways even more so than the US. The political situation differs a lot between provinces, and the provincial governments have a lot of power. And Alberta has essentially been a one party state under conservative rule for the last 50+ years (minus one 4 year term where a nominally left wing party took power by "fluke" because of a feud/split in the conservative vote). Every position of consequence there is connected to the conservative party, which is connected in turn to the oil and gas industry. And they have bungled COVID badly.

izend 5y ago

Timely article today in CBC News: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/young-albertans-leaving-the-province-1.6208420 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/young-albertans-leavi...

MattGaiser 5y ago

> Oil and gas dying is part of the problem, but ask many new grads from local universities why they are leaving and the answer is mainly that this is just not the place for them. That's a terrible sign for the future I am a young guy in Calgary and from Calgary. More than half my high school classmates are gone. Packed up to Vancouver or Toronto, with a few stateside. Most came back after university for a bit, but then departed.

sunsunsunsun 5y ago
I had the same experience, nearly all the people I knew from high school left Calgary/Alberta. Including myself. The few people who stayed work in oil and gas.
cmauniada 5y ago
Also from Calgary and just graduated, all of the people I knew from my group have moved to the states. Not really sure what I’m doing here but I enjoy my job so I don’t think I’ll move anytime soon.
bluefirebrand 5y ago
This is true a lot of places though. The minute people finish high school or post secondary they leave. I guess the difference is most people are moving from smaller places to cities for work and Calgary in theory should be a city where people would want to stay.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Not only that, but Calgary was the place young people were coming just 5-10 years ago. We were (and in many ways still are) a really young city.

refurb 5y ago

Alberta has always been boom and bust, ever since oil was first discovered. There was an old bumper sticker from the 80's "Give Alberta another oil boom and I swear I won't waste it". Office space vacancies in Calgary are nothing new. The economy will recover, people will forget the hard times, new buildings will go up and we'll do it all over again. Back in the late 1990's/early 2000's it had a tech boom feel to it. Newly graduated engineers and geologists making the equivalent of $200,000 at 22. A friend from high school dropped out of his 2nd year of university because he could get a job paying $100,000 right now. Plenty of new vehicle, boats and new construction. The Calgary-Edmonton corridor is one of the wealthiest areas in Canada. Alberta had the highest level of in-migration for a long time. And keep in mind oil is now at $80/barrel and climbing. Those sweet, sweet oil royalties will be flowing into gov't coffers soon enough.

mabbo 5y ago
> "Give Alberta another oil boom and I swear I won't waste it". I immediately hear Ron Howard's voice (Arrested Development narrator) saying "They did waste it".
- asah 5y ago
  It seems that this is the default. Norway is a notable exception.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    > It seems that this is the default. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
  - atatatat 5y ago
    Benevolent dictators are the way to go, if you can only find one.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Luckily Norway is rather solid democracy.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

I left Alberta (Edmonton) in 1996 for much the same reasons. Moved to Toronto to take part in the .com thing. It's an ongoing cycle and seems to get worse on the downside of every bust. Sometimes I imagine going back, because my elderly parents are there and my brother is there and I still have lots of friends there. But I can't imagine transplanting my children into that province. Like you said, the politics are toxic.

PeterisP 5y ago
I usually think of politics as a country-level issue, so it's hard for me to understand your point - can you elaborate on how does "toxic politics" on a city level look like that would make me not want to live there? Poor quality of municipal services caused by e.g. waste and corruption; or something entirely different?
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  You're missing a level with this - the provincial government is the issue. If you're American, think of how Florida has been dealing with COVID or how Texan electricity policies have affected things lately - it's that sort of thing. The provincial government launched us into the #1 COVID spot in Canada (we were competing with some of the worst America states for a while) and they have consistently doubled down on bad bets and bad policies focusing on what used to be rather than accepting the new reality that Alberta needs to start planning for the future.
- AMerrit 5y ago
  They likely mean Alberta provincial politics, which are kind of a mess. The current provincial government has done poorly with the COVID situation, and has spent as much effort battling cartoons on Netflix for being too "anti oil & gas" as anything.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Canada is a highly federal country. In some ways even more so than the US. The political situation differs a lot between provinces, and the provincial governments have a lot of power. And Alberta has essentially been a one party state under conservative rule for the last 50+ years (minus one 4 year term where a nominally left wing party took power by "fluke" because of a feud/split in the conservative vote). Every position of consequence there is connected to the conservative party, which is connected in turn to the oil and gas industry. And they have bungled COVID badly.