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I don't think that's true. Or at least we have different ideas about what's being discussed... Let's take JSON or YAML for example: Rust's closest siblings C

I don't think that's true. Or at least we have different ideas about what's being discussed... Let's take JSON or YAML for example: Rust's closest siblings C and C++ are typed, and you get a pretty much untyped messes when working with serialisation or deserialisation. You have to manually inspect every node or write manual ”NodeType" to struct conversation. They allow unwrapping to primitives at best (eg via template specialisation). In Haskell it's a bit more awkward, but you can kinda pull something similar off in terms of ergonomics. I've not worked with JSON in Haskell that much that I need to look for it, but I don't remember there being something as ergonomic as serde. Typescript doesn't support this type of validation either out of the box (there might be tools that add validation). In Elixir there's the Poison library, or it could be done with Kernel.struct/2 (not 100% sure this will work though). Of the "mainstream" languages Go is pretty much the only one that has as good ergonomics as Rust in that it supports it pretty much natively (via struct tags) --- This list excludes codegen tools which can generate (de)serialisers from an external schema (a la capnp, grpc, jsonschema, etc).

UK-Al05 5y ago
Most typed languages it's like this var account = JsonConvert.DeserializeObject<Account>(string/stream) That's it. No inspection or looping through trees. You can often get it to create objects via constructor for validation. It's been like this for 15 years...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vips7L 5y ago
Maybe we are having different ideas about what is being discussed, but in Java and C# (arguably the most mainstream languages) you have the same experience supported natively via annotations and attributes.
- spoiler 5y ago
  Ah, I stand corrected then. I've worked with the Microsoft tech stack very very little, so I've never bothered to learn C#. I've completely forgot about Java; I haven't used it in ages. Now that you mentioned Java, I realised Kotlin has it too.
rudedogg 5y ago
> Of the "mainstream" languages Go is pretty much the only one that has as good ergonomics as Rust in that it supports it pretty much natively (via struct tags) Swift does this too, using the Codable Protocol. The compiler generates the protocol conformance code for you, if you say a type is `Codable`, and the properties the type contains are all Codable types (Int, Float, String, URL, etc. conform to it), you don't have to do anything. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/archives_and_serialization/encoding_and_decoding_custom_types https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/archive...
- spoiler 5y ago
  Ah, I don't use Apple devices, so I've never been able to play with Swift(1). So I didn't know Swift had it too; thank you for pointing it out! (1): which is a shame, I remember when it came out that it seemed like a nice language
  - sli 5y ago
    Swift is available for Windows 10 and a few Linux distros (Ubuntu, Cent, and Amazon Linux 2) according to their download page.[0] If you're still interested, go give it a shot. [0]: https://swift.org/download/ https://swift.org/download/
dwohnitmok 5y ago
> In Haskell it's a bit more awkward, but you can kinda pull something similar off in terms of ergonomics. I've not worked with JSON in Haskell that much that I need to look for it, but I don't remember there being something as ergonomic as serde. I think Haskell's most popular JSON library aeson is basically the same thing and probably a source of inspiration for serde. data MyCustomType = ... deriving (Generic, ToJSON, FromJSON) or if you want more control you can use deriving-aeson -- I prefer snake case instead data MyCustomType = ... deriving Generic deriving (FromJSON, ToJSON) via CustomJSON '[FieldLabelModifier CamelToSnake]
- spoiler 5y ago
  Ah, I've heard about aeson, but not used it. Thanks for pointing it out!
dcow 5y ago
Swift also has native support. I am actually not a huge fan of the ergonomics of Go’s struct tags because of how cluttered they get in practice. It feels so unstructured like the rest of the language, but maybe that makes it perfect for Go.

UK-Al05 5y ago

Most typed languages it's like this var account = JsonConvert.DeserializeObject<Account>(string/stream) That's it. No inspection or looping through trees. You can often get it to create objects via constructor for validation. It's been like this for 15 years...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

vips7L 5y ago

Maybe we are having different ideas about what is being discussed, but in Java and C# (arguably the most mainstream languages) you have the same experience supported natively via annotations and attributes.

spoiler 5y ago
Ah, I stand corrected then. I've worked with the Microsoft tech stack very very little, so I've never bothered to learn C#. I've completely forgot about Java; I haven't used it in ages. Now that you mentioned Java, I realised Kotlin has it too.

rudedogg 5y ago

> Of the "mainstream" languages Go is pretty much the only one that has as good ergonomics as Rust in that it supports it pretty much natively (via struct tags) Swift does this too, using the Codable Protocol. The compiler generates the protocol conformance code for you, if you say a type is `Codable`, and the properties the type contains are all Codable types (Int, Float, String, URL, etc. conform to it), you don't have to do anything. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/archives_and_serialization/encoding_and_decoding_custom_types https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/archive...

spoiler 5y ago
Ah, I don't use Apple devices, so I've never been able to play with Swift(1). So I didn't know Swift had it too; thank you for pointing it out! (1): which is a shame, I remember when it came out that it seemed like a nice language
- sli 5y ago
  Swift is available for Windows 10 and a few Linux distros (Ubuntu, Cent, and Amazon Linux 2) according to their download page.[0] If you're still interested, go give it a shot. [0]: https://swift.org/download/ https://swift.org/download/

dwohnitmok 5y ago

> In Haskell it's a bit more awkward, but you can kinda pull something similar off in terms of ergonomics. I've not worked with JSON in Haskell that much that I need to look for it, but I don't remember there being something as ergonomic as serde. I think Haskell's most popular JSON library aeson is basically the same thing and probably a source of inspiration for serde. data MyCustomType = ... deriving (Generic, ToJSON, FromJSON) or if you want more control you can use deriving-aeson -- I prefer snake case instead data MyCustomType = ... deriving Generic deriving (FromJSON, ToJSON) via CustomJSON '[FieldLabelModifier CamelToSnake]

spoiler 5y ago
Ah, I've heard about aeson, but not used it. Thanks for pointing it out!

dcow 5y ago

Swift also has native support. I am actually not a huge fan of the ergonomics of Go’s struct tags because of how cluttered they get in practice. It feels so unstructured like the rest of the language, but maybe that makes it perfect for Go.