7 ms·

Yeah I know a lot of FAANG people getting 500-600K packages. Makes it hard to even think about startups.

by m_ke 5y ago

websap 5y ago
Depends on your definition of Startup, late stage companies like Stripe and Databricks are definitely matching/beating these offers. Mid-stage companies like Convoy are also going very high, but there is an upside with those companies. Don't know much about early stage, but a few of my acquaintances are moving from FAANG companies to early stage companies to play the lottery.
- m_ke 5y ago
  I'm a founder taking a significant pay cut and worked at early stage startups before that. Had a few hot new ML startups try to recruit me and their offers are nowhere near what my friends at FAANG are making. Last time I was looking for work 8 years ago the gap was nowhere near this large.
  - websap 5y ago
    Not sure about founders, but if you're looking to hire top talent you need to pay them, give them the promise of meaningful equity. Software engineering is one of those professions where you don't work a 9 - 5 job. I'm constantly thinking about problems at work, while i do mundane tasks like cleaning my apartment, or doing the dishes.
    - m_ke 5y ago
      Yes but unfortunately most startups can't afford to compete with monopolies. As the OP mentions I'd recommend anyone considering startups to value equity at $0 unless it's a late stage company with a lot of traction and top VCs backing them.
      - moneywoes 5y ago
        Would you define late stage as Series B? Where do you draw that line?
        m_ke 5y ago
        Yes, ones that are obviously a year or two from an IPO or a major acquisition.
- adammarples 5y ago
  Stripe being founded 12 years ago with 7 billion in revenue I don't call a startup. Might as well call facebook a startup at this point. Databricks is 8 years old. They are just private.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Nearly public, to be exact
Fordec 5y ago
Yeah that's not a "competitive" difference any more, that's approaching levels of annual compensation nearly a full seed round for a whole startup. I used to buy into the whole risk vs reward of startups, but the numbers are far too biased towards founders and big tech salaries now for any individual contributor actually paying attention to the market to think about a startup job.
- m_ke 5y ago
  Other crazy part is how much startups are raising these days. Every other person that I talk to either just raised >$100mil or is about to.
jiggawatts 5y ago
What the... s%&#? Half a million a year for a developer or architect is bonkers. That's the equivalent of AUD 800K a year. That's more than what the Prime Minister and a cabinet member put together make here! How can that possibly make sense? For that kind of money you can easily hire 4 senior developers here! Any company "hiring local" at those prices isn't exploring their international staffing options properly...
- sharpy 5y ago
  Yes, US tech salaries are rather crazy. But at the scale they operate at, it is also relatively easy to justify such salaries. For example, just last month, I saved the company more than a million a year of cloud costs by doing 1 week of cost optimizations for just one of our services. I will create many times that in new revenues/cost savings in the remaining 2 months of the year. My total comp for year? Barely over half a million. So I'd say they are getting a good value.
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    To be blunt: so what? I just saved $500K per annum for a customer, after working on the most critical part of a merger between two 10K-user organisations, and I get less then half that. It's not like it's impossible to get someone that knows how to optimise infrastructure or do complex projects for less than a decent chunk of a million dollars a year! Like other people have commented, they're often making just tens of thousands in Europe, despite having comparable education, experience, and English language skills...
    - Infinitesimus 5y ago
      There are also people who do the thing you do who likely make much more. Just as there are folks who did what GP did and make much less. If $$ is what you optimize for, you can probably find the top 1% of compensation for businesses in your field and work there. For a lot of office workers, there are firms that value their skills and firms that do not. Remember that the comp numbers for Bay Area tech salaries are legit the top 1% globally or some very small percentage. Consider the difference between an comp "analyst" at a local bank and an "analyst" at an extremely profitable hedge fund. It's just money in the end and if you make enough to be happy, then the rest doesn't matter. If you want to compete for the top < 10% of compensation locally/globally in your field, then things have to change and it comes at some cost.
yholio 5y ago
I see these mind boggling sums in the Valley, $300.000, $600.000, can you please translate: how much does that net you per month, after taxes, reasonable healthcare and rent, ideally no further than 1 hour commute and free of black mold?
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  Assuming $500k in a big coastal city: $285k after taxes $50k in rent (generous) $10k in worst-case healthcare costs 30 minute commute Over $200k per year in take home pay after most expenses. Rough numbers, my monthly salary is ~$10k/mo (after tax) and I vest ~$50k in stock every 3 months (also after tax)
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    > Assuming $500k in a big coastal city: $285k after taxes In Californian coastal city, that is, or in NYC. It’s $305k in New Jersey, and $335k in Washington. And that is if you’re single. If you’re married, with $500k you’re looking at $325k after tax in California/NYC, $338k in NJ, and $366k in WA.
- johnqpub 5y ago
  I'm in Seattle so the situation is a bit better than the valley. But here's a breakdown: L6 at Amazon, single, no kids: ~$400K TC $33,333 per month gross About $100K in federal tax, no state income tax in WA. $8333 per month Healthcare: $34 a month for an HSA plan. $3,650 over the course of the year goes into the HSA, including the employer portion. That ends up being about $205 out of my pocket. This is a bit complicated if you're not American and familiar with the different account types but it's basically money you're saving that's not taxed, but you can only use it for healthcare expenses. $3000 max out of pocket per year for medical expenses. For all intents and purposes you can assume that's the most I'll ever pay. Out of network stuff makes it more complicated, but my network has essentially everyone. $250 a month, but you can use the HSA funds from above, so net $0. Rent: In the Seattle area a newish one bedroom that's about 50-60 m^2 will run you say, $2200 a month. You can go cheaper or more expensive, but that will get you something that's plenty nice. Commute is extremely dependent on exact location, but if you're in the city, the majority of it has a commute time of less than an hour. $33,333 -$8333 -$34 -$205 -$2200 = $22,561 income remaining. I think you'd be able to survive :) Obviously doesn't account for internet, a phone, a car, utilities or anything else, but that's maybe another $2K a month on the high end.

Yeah I know a lot of FAANG people getting 500-600K packages. Makes it hard to even think about startups.

by m_ke 5y ago

Yeah I know a lot of FAANG people getting 500-600K packages. Makes it hard to even think about startups.

Depends on your definition of Startup, late stage companies like Stripe and Databricks are definitely matching/beating these offers. Mid-stage companies like Convoy are also going very high, but there is an upside with those companies. Don't know much about early stage, but a few of my acquaintances are moving from FAANG companies to early stage companies to play the lottery.

m_ke 5y ago
I'm a founder taking a significant pay cut and worked at early stage startups before that. Had a few hot new ML startups try to recruit me and their offers are nowhere near what my friends at FAANG are making. Last time I was looking for work 8 years ago the gap was nowhere near this large.
- websap 5y ago
  Not sure about founders, but if you're looking to hire top talent you need to pay them, give them the promise of meaningful equity. Software engineering is one of those professions where you don't work a 9 - 5 job. I'm constantly thinking about problems at work, while i do mundane tasks like cleaning my apartment, or doing the dishes.
  - m_ke 5y ago
    Yes but unfortunately most startups can't afford to compete with monopolies. As the OP mentions I'd recommend anyone considering startups to value equity at $0 unless it's a late stage company with a lot of traction and top VCs backing them.
    - moneywoes 5y ago
      Would you define late stage as Series B? Where do you draw that line?
      - m_ke 5y ago
        Yes, ones that are obviously a year or two from an IPO or a major acquisition.
adammarples 5y ago
Stripe being founded 12 years ago with 7 billion in revenue I don't call a startup. Might as well call facebook a startup at this point. Databricks is 8 years old. They are just private.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Nearly public, to be exact

Fordec 5y ago

Yeah that's not a "competitive" difference any more, that's approaching levels of annual compensation nearly a full seed round for a whole startup. I used to buy into the whole risk vs reward of startups, but the numbers are far too biased towards founders and big tech salaries now for any individual contributor actually paying attention to the market to think about a startup job.

m_ke 5y ago
Other crazy part is how much startups are raising these days. Every other person that I talk to either just raised >$100mil or is about to.

jiggawatts 5y ago

What the... s%&#? Half a million a year for a developer or architect is bonkers. That's the equivalent of AUD 800K a year. That's more than what the Prime Minister and a cabinet member put together make here! How can that possibly make sense? For that kind of money you can easily hire 4 senior developers here! Any company "hiring local" at those prices isn't exploring their international staffing options properly...

sharpy 5y ago
Yes, US tech salaries are rather crazy. But at the scale they operate at, it is also relatively easy to justify such salaries. For example, just last month, I saved the company more than a million a year of cloud costs by doing 1 week of cost optimizations for just one of our services. I will create many times that in new revenues/cost savings in the remaining 2 months of the year. My total comp for year? Barely over half a million. So I'd say they are getting a good value.
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  To be blunt: so what? I just saved $500K per annum for a customer, after working on the most critical part of a merger between two 10K-user organisations, and I get less then half that. It's not like it's impossible to get someone that knows how to optimise infrastructure or do complex projects for less than a decent chunk of a million dollars a year! Like other people have commented, they're often making just tens of thousands in Europe, despite having comparable education, experience, and English language skills...
  - Infinitesimus 5y ago
    There are also people who do the thing you do who likely make much more. Just as there are folks who did what GP did and make much less. If $$ is what you optimize for, you can probably find the top 1% of compensation for businesses in your field and work there. For a lot of office workers, there are firms that value their skills and firms that do not. Remember that the comp numbers for Bay Area tech salaries are legit the top 1% globally or some very small percentage. Consider the difference between an comp "analyst" at a local bank and an "analyst" at an extremely profitable hedge fund. It's just money in the end and if you make enough to be happy, then the rest doesn't matter. If you want to compete for the top < 10% of compensation locally/globally in your field, then things have to change and it comes at some cost.

yholio 5y ago

I see these mind boggling sums in the Valley, $300.000, $600.000, can you please translate: how much does that net you per month, after taxes, reasonable healthcare and rent, ideally no further than 1 hour commute and free of black mold?

rgrmrts 5y ago
Assuming $500k in a big coastal city: $285k after taxes $50k in rent (generous) $10k in worst-case healthcare costs 30 minute commute Over $200k per year in take home pay after most expenses. Rough numbers, my monthly salary is ~$10k/mo (after tax) and I vest ~$50k in stock every 3 months (also after tax)
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  > Assuming $500k in a big coastal city: $285k after taxes In Californian coastal city, that is, or in NYC. It’s $305k in New Jersey, and $335k in Washington. And that is if you’re single. If you’re married, with $500k you’re looking at $325k after tax in California/NYC, $338k in NJ, and $366k in WA.
johnqpub 5y ago
I'm in Seattle so the situation is a bit better than the valley. But here's a breakdown: L6 at Amazon, single, no kids: ~$400K TC $33,333 per month gross About $100K in federal tax, no state income tax in WA. $8333 per month Healthcare: $34 a month for an HSA plan. $3,650 over the course of the year goes into the HSA, including the employer portion. That ends up being about $205 out of my pocket. This is a bit complicated if you're not American and familiar with the different account types but it's basically money you're saving that's not taxed, but you can only use it for healthcare expenses. $3000 max out of pocket per year for medical expenses. For all intents and purposes you can assume that's the most I'll ever pay. Out of network stuff makes it more complicated, but my network has essentially everyone. $250 a month, but you can use the HSA funds from above, so net $0. Rent: In the Seattle area a newish one bedroom that's about 50-60 m^2 will run you say, $2200 a month. You can go cheaper or more expensive, but that will get you something that's plenty nice. Commute is extremely dependent on exact location, but if you're in the city, the majority of it has a commute time of less than an hour. $33,333 -$8333 -$34 -$205 -$2200 = $22,561 income remaining. I think you'd be able to survive :) Obviously doesn't account for internet, a phone, a car, utilities or anything else, but that's maybe another $2K a month on the high end.