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I mean don't let this one exception detract from the main point. We know men are stronger, faster, have better endurance and have higher bone density. We also k

I mean don't let this one exception detract from the main point. We know men are stronger, faster, have better endurance and have higher bone density. We also know people with more fat and less dense bones are more buoyant. It's interesting that the trade-off is in favor of women in ultra marathon swimming but it's not exactly a surprise that in that particular event there are additional factors in favor of women. Without even checking who wins those events I can also tell you white people are better than black people at them, again for the same reason (buoyancy). On the other hand over reliance of published studies may lead to you believe nonsense like lack of advantage of trans women (biologically born men) over women in almost all sporting events. Clear nonsense to anyone who ever seen how hormonal changes influence speed/strength/endurance development but suddenly a debate if the only thing we can go with are published studies (I mean, even that points to the obvious conclusion if you dig deep enough but the fact that it's not easy to get "people with more testosterone at puberty develop stronger bones/more muscle etc." published makes it seem way less obvious than it really is.

awb 5y ago
So, that's kind of the point is that the more we study bodies and collect data on their differences the more we might be able to find / create sports where men, women and transgender can compete on a relatively level playing field together. And we perhaps already have many of those sports in the Olympics like equestrian, darts, curling, motor biking, sailing etc. By including those events in the chart and showing little to no difference between the sexes in some sports, I think it actually helps the case that those other sports in the chart (which heavily favor strength and therefore testosterone), should continue to be played in separate divisions based on testosterone levels to create an even playing field. But just saying transgender women shouldn't compete with women in any sport (which is what the paper is advocating), I don't think is backed up by the data. I think that's why people are mad, is that they conveniently skip over all of the mixed sports where testosterone is of little to no advantage, but then say that the male advantage is "insurmountable in nearly all sports" but only provide data on the sports that are already split up. So, their proposition that transgender women not be allowed to compete with women in darts, sailing, etc. seems biased and they awkwardly skip providing any data around those sports in the paper.
- bluecalm 5y ago
  I am sorry to be blunt but you seem to be a kind of person who never was around serious competition. Men have significant advantage in darts, motor biking, sailing and it's not even remotely close in the case of last two. Men also have very significant advantage in chess which can't be explained by participation rate (a lot of recent discussion about it, I won't get into it but the conclusion is clear). In case of sailing it is obvious for anyone who ever done some - it's pays off to be strong and very often it pays off to be heavy. It also seems men do better in events that require prolonged focus (chess, go, bridge, eSports) without physical component. We don't know exactly why yet but denying that only creates unreasonable expectations for women.

awb 5y ago

So, that's kind of the point is that the more we study bodies and collect data on their differences the more we might be able to find / create sports where men, women and transgender can compete on a relatively level playing field together. And we perhaps already have many of those sports in the Olympics like equestrian, darts, curling, motor biking, sailing etc. By including those events in the chart and showing little to no difference between the sexes in some sports, I think it actually helps the case that those other sports in the chart (which heavily favor strength and therefore testosterone), should continue to be played in separate divisions based on testosterone levels to create an even playing field. But just saying transgender women shouldn't compete with women in any sport (which is what the paper is advocating), I don't think is backed up by the data. I think that's why people are mad, is that they conveniently skip over all of the mixed sports where testosterone is of little to no advantage, but then say that the male advantage is "insurmountable in nearly all sports" but only provide data on the sports that are already split up. So, their proposition that transgender women not be allowed to compete with women in darts, sailing, etc. seems biased and they awkwardly skip providing any data around those sports in the paper.

bluecalm 5y ago
I am sorry to be blunt but you seem to be a kind of person who never was around serious competition. Men have significant advantage in darts, motor biking, sailing and it's not even remotely close in the case of last two. Men also have very significant advantage in chess which can't be explained by participation rate (a lot of recent discussion about it, I won't get into it but the conclusion is clear). In case of sailing it is obvious for anyone who ever done some - it's pays off to be strong and very often it pays off to be heavy. It also seems men do better in events that require prolonged focus (chess, go, bridge, eSports) without physical component. We don't know exactly why yet but denying that only creates unreasonable expectations for women.