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Nearly all politicians act like this when they're in power. The general public is easily mislead. HN notices it when it's a tech issue, but it happens in econo

Nearly all politicians act like this when they're in power. The general public is easily mislead. HN notices it when it's a tech issue, but it happens in economics, medicine, basically everywhere. They have zero incentives to accept responsibility.

jeremyjh 5y ago
Nearly all politicians prosecute reporters? No, I'm pretty sure that is just the fascists.
- SamPatt 5y ago
  Substitute whistleblower for reporter and yes, nearly all politicians will use the criminal justice system to silence their critics. Was Obama a fascist? I have no desire to engage in whataboutism, they all show their true colors when they're in power and shown corrupt or incompetent.
  - jeremyjh 5y ago
    >I have no desire to engage in whataboutism Then don't. I think Snowden should be pardoned and considered a national hero, but he unquestionably committed a very serious crime. There was no crime committed in the State of Missouri on this matter.
- kmlx 5y ago
  > pretty sure that is just the fascists. i’m not from the US, but is it common in the US to use these kinds of accusations? seems ultra far fetched.
  - SamPatt 5y ago
    Yes. Most online discourse about politics will eventually have someone claim fascism or make a Hilter reference. If you aren't among one of the two sides it can be humorous to watch at times.
    - lloydgrossman 5y ago
      and there's the 3rd response: the enlightened centrist.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      "The creator of Godwin’s Law explains why some Nazi comparisons don’t break his famous Internet rule" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08/14/the-creator-of-godwins-law-explains-why-some-nazi-comparisons-dont-break-his-famous-internet-rule/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08... "It’s Time to Call Nazis ‘Nazis’" https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-time-to-call-nazis-nazis https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-time-to-call-nazis-nazis Chap behind Godwin's law suspends his own rule for Charlottesville fascists: 'By all means, compare them to Nazis' https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/14/godwins_law_creator_rescinds_ruling_after_nazis_march_in_charlottesville/ https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/14/godwins_law_creator_r... And there's the law itself. Mike Godwin takes pains to clarify that it's not about valid or invalid comparison, or who's "winning" or "losing" the discussion, as it is an observation that productive discussion within the thread is over. Specifically: So - *WHAT DOES IT MEAN*? Fine, fine - it means that somebody's eventually going to say something about the Nazis in any thread that lasts very long. When it happens, the thread is going to start either degenerating into a long flamewar over Nazi Germany or about Godwin's Law. Either way, the thread is effectively over, and you can safely killfile the thread and move on. ... 2. What happens if we're actually talking about Nazis? Then you've already invoked Godwin's Law, and the chances are that your thread isn't going to last all that much longer as a sane discussion. Them's the breaks. 3. What about arguing with Neo-Nazis? Arguing with Neo-Nazis is probably the quickest path to getting Nazi invocations, because, well, they're actually accurate. Still, trying to invoke Godwin's Law near a Neo-Nazi isn't really a good idea because it's not terribly original and they'll probably get off on it anyway. Just ignore them and occasionally publish a FAQ detailing what actually happened during the Holocaust and such; arguing probably isn't going to help you. http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/ http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/ This thread has reached the discussion-of-Godwin's-law stage, so there's that. And remember that "it can't happen here" is also a fallacy.
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    From the extremists, yes, it is common. The "other" side's elected officials are nearly always labelled "fascists". However, the majority of the electorate is smart enough to recognize that it's just a failed appeal to emotion, and nothing more. (except maybe exhausting)
  - cowpig 5y ago
    I used to recoil at these kinds of statements until I saw what the Trump administration was doing. It's not an exaggeration. Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Richard Spencer, all these people in Trump's inner circle are self-described "alt-right," "white nationalist," or some other euphemism for ethno-fascist. Racism and fascism in the US are very real, serious problems, and have become synonymous with the Republican party. edit, here is a link or two: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/05/stephen-miller-duke-donald-trump https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/05/stephen-miller-duke-... https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-calls-for-stephen-miller-to-leave-white-house https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-...
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Just think how much trouble we would have saved if only we'd been able to call Mussolini a Fascist in the 30s.
    - jessaustin 5y ago
      Mussolini called himself a fascist, and certainly didn't mind when everyone else did as well.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Is prosecuting reporters not, like, definitionally fascist?
    - jeremyjh 5y ago
      Right, you don't need any other supporting information and you don't have to bring political parties into it. If a politician is prosecuting a reporter for embarrassing the state - not for committing a crime - they are a fascist.
      - kmlx 5y ago
        i don’t think either of you is correct. there are many tenets of fascism, and prosecuting (or straight up imprisoning) journalists is a common occurance in socialist and capitalist countries. by your definition a lot of capitalist and socialist countries around the world are fascist, which is false.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        ModernMech 5y ago
        I don't think they meant to imply that all people who imprison reporters are definitionally fascist, but that fascists definitely imprison reporters as a matter of course. The claim was that accusing someone of imprisoning reporters of being fascist is "ultra far fetched". But if imprisoning reporters is something that fascists are wont to do, then it doesn't seem to me that questioning if these people are fascist is "ultra far fetched". You could also want to know if they were socialists if that's the thing you believe socialists do.
dylan604 5y ago
Because of HN no-politics type of policy, the only time HN can get riled up is when the politics involve tech. It's not that HN readers have no interest in these other topics. There's limitations on what the man will allow you to discuss about the other man. Hi dang!!!

jeremyjh 5y ago

Nearly all politicians prosecute reporters? No, I'm pretty sure that is just the fascists.

SamPatt 5y ago
Substitute whistleblower for reporter and yes, nearly all politicians will use the criminal justice system to silence their critics. Was Obama a fascist? I have no desire to engage in whataboutism, they all show their true colors when they're in power and shown corrupt or incompetent.
- jeremyjh 5y ago
  >I have no desire to engage in whataboutism Then don't. I think Snowden should be pardoned and considered a national hero, but he unquestionably committed a very serious crime. There was no crime committed in the State of Missouri on this matter.
kmlx 5y ago
> pretty sure that is just the fascists. i’m not from the US, but is it common in the US to use these kinds of accusations? seems ultra far fetched.
- SamPatt 5y ago
  Yes. Most online discourse about politics will eventually have someone claim fascism or make a Hilter reference. If you aren't among one of the two sides it can be humorous to watch at times.
  - lloydgrossman 5y ago
    and there's the 3rd response: the enlightened centrist.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    "The creator of Godwin’s Law explains why some Nazi comparisons don’t break his famous Internet rule" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08/14/the-creator-of-godwins-law-explains-why-some-nazi-comparisons-dont-break-his-famous-internet-rule/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08... "It’s Time to Call Nazis ‘Nazis’" https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-time-to-call-nazis-nazis https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-time-to-call-nazis-nazis Chap behind Godwin's law suspends his own rule for Charlottesville fascists: 'By all means, compare them to Nazis' https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/14/godwins_law_creator_rescinds_ruling_after_nazis_march_in_charlottesville/ https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/14/godwins_law_creator_r... And there's the law itself. Mike Godwin takes pains to clarify that it's not about valid or invalid comparison, or who's "winning" or "losing" the discussion, as it is an observation that productive discussion within the thread is over. Specifically: So - *WHAT DOES IT MEAN*? Fine, fine - it means that somebody's eventually going to say something about the Nazis in any thread that lasts very long. When it happens, the thread is going to start either degenerating into a long flamewar over Nazi Germany or about Godwin's Law. Either way, the thread is effectively over, and you can safely killfile the thread and move on. ... 2. What happens if we're actually talking about Nazis? Then you've already invoked Godwin's Law, and the chances are that your thread isn't going to last all that much longer as a sane discussion. Them's the breaks. 3. What about arguing with Neo-Nazis? Arguing with Neo-Nazis is probably the quickest path to getting Nazi invocations, because, well, they're actually accurate. Still, trying to invoke Godwin's Law near a Neo-Nazi isn't really a good idea because it's not terribly original and they'll probably get off on it anyway. Just ignore them and occasionally publish a FAQ detailing what actually happened during the Holocaust and such; arguing probably isn't going to help you. http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/ http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/ This thread has reached the discussion-of-Godwin's-law stage, so there's that. And remember that "it can't happen here" is also a fallacy.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  From the extremists, yes, it is common. The "other" side's elected officials are nearly always labelled "fascists". However, the majority of the electorate is smart enough to recognize that it's just a failed appeal to emotion, and nothing more. (except maybe exhausting)
- cowpig 5y ago
  I used to recoil at these kinds of statements until I saw what the Trump administration was doing. It's not an exaggeration. Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Richard Spencer, all these people in Trump's inner circle are self-described "alt-right," "white nationalist," or some other euphemism for ethno-fascist. Racism and fascism in the US are very real, serious problems, and have become synonymous with the Republican party. edit, here is a link or two: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/05/stephen-miller-duke-donald-trump https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/05/stephen-miller-duke-... https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-calls-for-stephen-miller-to-leave-white-house https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-...
- mbg721 5y ago
  Just think how much trouble we would have saved if only we'd been able to call Mussolini a Fascist in the 30s.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Mussolini called himself a fascist, and certainly didn't mind when everyone else did as well.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Is prosecuting reporters not, like, definitionally fascist?
  - jeremyjh 5y ago
    Right, you don't need any other supporting information and you don't have to bring political parties into it. If a politician is prosecuting a reporter for embarrassing the state - not for committing a crime - they are a fascist.
    - kmlx 5y ago
      i don’t think either of you is correct. there are many tenets of fascism, and prosecuting (or straight up imprisoning) journalists is a common occurance in socialist and capitalist countries. by your definition a lot of capitalist and socialist countries around the world are fascist, which is false.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - ModernMech 5y ago
        I don't think they meant to imply that all people who imprison reporters are definitionally fascist, but that fascists definitely imprison reporters as a matter of course. The claim was that accusing someone of imprisoning reporters of being fascist is "ultra far fetched". But if imprisoning reporters is something that fascists are wont to do, then it doesn't seem to me that questioning if these people are fascist is "ultra far fetched". You could also want to know if they were socialists if that's the thing you believe socialists do.

dylan604 5y ago

Because of HN no-politics type of policy, the only time HN can get riled up is when the politics involve tech. It's not that HN readers have no interest in these other topics. There's limitations on what the man will allow you to discuss about the other man. Hi dang!!!