4 ms·

It's funny because if men didn't have clear advantage in sports (and competition in general as the advantage is there in less physical activities like mind spor

It's funny because if men didn't have clear advantage in sports (and competition in general as the advantage is there in less physical activities like mind sports/games as well) then it would be hard to justify existence of women only competitions. One of the conundrums of woke culture - no matter how you try to flex it your ideology doesn't fit the reality. Btw, that anyone needs to see studies to be convinced men has significant advantage in sports over women is already a sad sign of common sense often being lost nowadays.

silicon2401 5y ago
> One of the conundrums of woke culture - no matter how you try to flex it your ideology doesn't fit the reality. The danger and horror of ideologies that embrace contradictions is that they can justify whatever they want, at any time, without worrying about self-contradictions or consistency. It's up to everyone else to look past the superficial points and figure out what their real goals are
awb 5y ago
> Btw, that anyone needs to see studies to be convinced men has significant advantage in sports over women is already a sad sign of common sense often being lost nowadays. I for one appreciate data, even if it's obvious to others that are more familiar with the sport. It's interesting to me to see exactly the % difference rather than just intuitively noticing that there is a difference. Also, women do dominate some sports. For example, woman dominate ultra-long distance open water swimming (marathon swimming): https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/marathon-swimming-where-women-have-outperformed-the-men/ https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/marathon-swimming... > women hold 14 of the longest 23 current neutral endurance records https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/why-women-have-beaten-men-in-marathon-swimming/ https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/why-women-have-be... > the best women per year were 12-14% faster than the best men Just focusing on the narrow selection of swimming on TV I would have assumed that men are always faster than women at swimming, which isn't the case. Common sense will get you pretty far, but it shouldn't be the final verdict.
- bluecalm 5y ago
  I mean don't let this one exception detract from the main point. We know men are stronger, faster, have better endurance and have higher bone density. We also know people with more fat and less dense bones are more buoyant. It's interesting that the trade-off is in favor of women in ultra marathon swimming but it's not exactly a surprise that in that particular event there are additional factors in favor of women. Without even checking who wins those events I can also tell you white people are better than black people at them, again for the same reason (buoyancy). On the other hand over reliance of published studies may lead to you believe nonsense like lack of advantage of trans women (biologically born men) over women in almost all sporting events. Clear nonsense to anyone who ever seen how hormonal changes influence speed/strength/endurance development but suddenly a debate if the only thing we can go with are published studies (I mean, even that points to the obvious conclusion if you dig deep enough but the fact that it's not easy to get "people with more testosterone at puberty develop stronger bones/more muscle etc." published makes it seem way less obvious than it really is.
  - awb 5y ago
    So, that's kind of the point is that the more we study bodies and collect data on their differences the more we might be able to find / create sports where men, women and transgender can compete on a relatively level playing field together. And we perhaps already have many of those sports in the Olympics like equestrian, darts, curling, motor biking, sailing etc. By including those events in the chart and showing little to no difference between the sexes in some sports, I think it actually helps the case that those other sports in the chart (which heavily favor strength and therefore testosterone), should continue to be played in separate divisions based on testosterone levels to create an even playing field. But just saying transgender women shouldn't compete with women in any sport (which is what the paper is advocating), I don't think is backed up by the data. I think that's why people are mad, is that they conveniently skip over all of the mixed sports where testosterone is of little to no advantage, but then say that the male advantage is "insurmountable in nearly all sports" but only provide data on the sports that are already split up. So, their proposition that transgender women not be allowed to compete with women in darts, sailing, etc. seems biased and they awkwardly skip providing any data around those sports in the paper.

silicon2401 5y ago

> One of the conundrums of woke culture - no matter how you try to flex it your ideology doesn't fit the reality. The danger and horror of ideologies that embrace contradictions is that they can justify whatever they want, at any time, without worrying about self-contradictions or consistency. It's up to everyone else to look past the superficial points and figure out what their real goals are

awb 5y ago

> Btw, that anyone needs to see studies to be convinced men has significant advantage in sports over women is already a sad sign of common sense often being lost nowadays. I for one appreciate data, even if it's obvious to others that are more familiar with the sport. It's interesting to me to see exactly the % difference rather than just intuitively noticing that there is a difference. Also, women do dominate some sports. For example, woman dominate ultra-long distance open water swimming (marathon swimming): https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/marathon-swimming-where-women-have-outperformed-the-men/ https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/marathon-swimming... > women hold 14 of the longest 23 current neutral endurance records https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/why-women-have-beaten-men-in-marathon-swimming/ https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/why-women-have-be... > the best women per year were 12-14% faster than the best men Just focusing on the narrow selection of swimming on TV I would have assumed that men are always faster than women at swimming, which isn't the case. Common sense will get you pretty far, but it shouldn't be the final verdict.

bluecalm 5y ago
I mean don't let this one exception detract from the main point. We know men are stronger, faster, have better endurance and have higher bone density. We also know people with more fat and less dense bones are more buoyant. It's interesting that the trade-off is in favor of women in ultra marathon swimming but it's not exactly a surprise that in that particular event there are additional factors in favor of women. Without even checking who wins those events I can also tell you white people are better than black people at them, again for the same reason (buoyancy). On the other hand over reliance of published studies may lead to you believe nonsense like lack of advantage of trans women (biologically born men) over women in almost all sporting events. Clear nonsense to anyone who ever seen how hormonal changes influence speed/strength/endurance development but suddenly a debate if the only thing we can go with are published studies (I mean, even that points to the obvious conclusion if you dig deep enough but the fact that it's not easy to get "people with more testosterone at puberty develop stronger bones/more muscle etc." published makes it seem way less obvious than it really is.
- awb 5y ago
  So, that's kind of the point is that the more we study bodies and collect data on their differences the more we might be able to find / create sports where men, women and transgender can compete on a relatively level playing field together. And we perhaps already have many of those sports in the Olympics like equestrian, darts, curling, motor biking, sailing etc. By including those events in the chart and showing little to no difference between the sexes in some sports, I think it actually helps the case that those other sports in the chart (which heavily favor strength and therefore testosterone), should continue to be played in separate divisions based on testosterone levels to create an even playing field. But just saying transgender women shouldn't compete with women in any sport (which is what the paper is advocating), I don't think is backed up by the data. I think that's why people are mad, is that they conveniently skip over all of the mixed sports where testosterone is of little to no advantage, but then say that the male advantage is "insurmountable in nearly all sports" but only provide data on the sports that are already split up. So, their proposition that transgender women not be allowed to compete with women in darts, sailing, etc. seems biased and they awkwardly skip providing any data around those sports in the paper.