10 ms·

Was going to post the same thing (albeit far more poorly explained). Isn't Microsoft embarrassed about this? This has been an issue for my last two laptops ove

Was going to post the same thing (albeit far more poorly explained). Isn't Microsoft embarrassed about this? This has been an issue for my last two laptops over the last 5 years. How is it acceptable for this problem to still exist? My Lenovo supports S3 sleep, but I didn't discover it until probably a year into having bought it, so at that point my battery's ability to hold charge had already been sufficiently degraded, to the point where I'm having to charge this thing every day when I'm mostly only using it for basic web browsing. I will never buy another Windows laptop, and if Visual Studio ran on Mac I'd probably switch my PC out also. I'm not a mac guy, I find MacOS fairly unintuitive, and really hate the placement of the Ctrl key, but at this point it's clear that Apple's model better lends itself to quality, and I'm sick of all the broken crap that is deemed acceptable in the Windows world. As I was typing this, a great example of said broken crap, is Lenovo popping up a MessageBox asking me to reboot to update my firmware. Didn't software developers all agree well over a decade ago that windows stealing focus was not a good thing? So why then is a top of the line brand in the PC world writing shit like this?

allwein 5y ago
> and if Visual Studio ran on Mac I'd probably switch my PC out also Not sure if it supports all the features you need, but it exists. https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/
- glenarma 5y ago
  That’s just a rebranded Xamarin IDE - but for .NET development on Mac, I’ve found JetBrains Rider does most of what the full Visual Studio package does
  - beermonster 5y ago
    Yes it's just Xamarin modified to look like a native Visual Studio for Mac. Much better off using Rider (also works nicely on Linux).
    - ddek 5y ago
      IntelliJ is still a little broken on wayland I think. Last I checked they were waiting on a patch to Swing, so right now it's only running under XWayland, it's fairly buggy and doesn't scale nicely. You also need to set some env variables or you'll get a blank screen. It still works pretty well though, which is better than any other similar IDE.
  - hoistbypetard 5y ago
    I like Rider better even on Windows. My favorite thing about Visual Studio on Windows was always the debugger, and I think Clion and Rider have lapped them there in the past two years.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    Seconding Rider if you're on macOS. It shares its analysis code with ReSharper, so it's extremely featureful. In fact, it's usually faster than VS + ReSharper because it isn't running two code analysis engines at once and it doesn't have to run the analysis out-of-process.
- can16358p 5y ago
  Note that if OP expects anything like the "real" Visual Studio that runs on Windows, this is really nothing compared to it. I'd even go further and actually prefer Vscode with the right extensions compared to this "Visual Studio".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 867-5309 5y ago
    sounds like when we try to run iTunes on Windows - each competitor is intentionally crapping on the other's users
    - Lamad123 5y ago
      iTunes is crappy in Macs, too!!
    - my123 5y ago
      Don't worry, the Music app on macOS is just as bad as iTunes on Windows...
    - ziml77 5y ago
      It's more that Visual Studio is a massive project that was built around running on Windows. It would be a huge undertaking to bring it over to another OS and probably not add nearly enough value. The only reason macOS has "Visual Studio" at all is because Microsoft bought out Xamarin and rebranded their Xamarin Studio product.
      - can16358p 5y ago
        Yup it would just not be worth it to bring real VS to macOS. Then why decrease its brand value by marketing a crappy product like Xamarin (which I think has always been bad, and I honestly don't know why MS bothered to buy it) as if it was VS? Just call it Xamarin, or VS "lite", or anything, but not VS as it is not VS.
nikau 5y ago
Your battery is likely worn from keeping it charged at 100% constantly, lenovo have an option to limit max charge to something like 80% which will greatly reduce battery wear, you just have to turn it off if you are actually planning to run it without AC for as long as possible.
- motoboi 5y ago
  His battery is likely worn by recharging cycles. As the computer is being discharged more often.
  - nikau 5y ago
    Nope, its from charging to 100% constantly which accelerates wear massively. I've had my Lenovo carbon x1 for a few years set to 80% max charge and its battery life is still good. Battery stats report 480 charging cycles, capacity has dropped only 8 percent from rated.
    - motoboi 5y ago
      It’s not charging to 100% that wears batteries out. It’s storage at 100% that does that. If you charge to 50% and keep it there, it basically last years. If you use your notebook primarily on AC, battery is charged and kept on “storage” until you unplug from AC. Over the years, this is equivalent to a battery stored on a box. So, time stored on a box with 50% is better than 80%, which is also better than 100%. But. If your notebook is used primarily unplugged from AC, that 100% is better than 80%, because you’ll have fewer deeper discharges. Deep discharges is what form dentrites. Dentrities is what kill lithium batteries.
      - nikau 5y ago
        > If you use your notebook primarily on AC, battery is charged and kept on “storage” until you unplug from AC. Over the years, this is equivalent to a battery stored on a box. I'm not sure what you mean, by default most laptops will charge to 100% and keep trickle charging it to that level consistently while on AC. Setting a charge max of 40% would be ideal, but there is point where you want to maintain some level of runtime when removed from AC, so 80% is a reasonable compromise.
dustinmoris 5y ago
JetBrains Rider. If you care about quality, don't bother with Visual Studio at all.
- pico303 5y ago
  Or CLion, if you’re doing C++ or Rust development
tentacleuno 5y ago
> if Visual Studio ran on Mac It is! What do you mean? :)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sk0g 5y ago
  The Mac version of Visual Studio is closer to a fork of MonoDevelop than mainline VS. Rider is a better experience than either though, IMO.
t_von_doom 5y ago
As a Mac user with the same gripe of the ctrl key placement: Remapping it to the caps lock works wonders :)
- browningstreet 5y ago
  I use so many keyboards, not all of which are under my control.. I wish I could, but it would bring chaos to my typing world.
  - loonster 5y ago
    Something like that exists for DVORAK. Maybe someone else makes a similar product that works like an any keyboard. https://www.keyghost.com/qido/ https://www.keyghost.com/qido/
  - selfup 5y ago
    You can set this in the OS itself.
    - manquer 5y ago
      Wouldn't you need root/admin access for that ?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
nyxaiur 5y ago
The implementation of the none S3 sleep on most windows laptops these days is not microsofts fault. Critical updates (firmware) always have priority and even on mac's you get negging pop-ups for updates all the time. That said you can fix everything what you said with one checkbox. It's not the pc which sucks it's you the user. For all the people downvoting. He is the equivalent of people making "screenshots" with their mobile phone instead of using printscrn. I bet you are complaining about your own users all the time and here you defend someone who can't even be bothered to look at the options he has. smh
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  The complaint was not that the firmware notification existed or was urgent, but that it stole input focus.
LindyTalker 5y ago
Visual studio running on Mac? I’ve been using visual studio code on it for years no problem. I’m now realizing there’s a difference between the two. Care to explain a little more why you use VS and not VSC?
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code are completely different things. VSC can do a subset of what VS can do, but some people really need the full power of a traditional IDE. VS vs VSC is like the difference between a smartphone camera and a full camera platform. You can rig up an iPhone (VSC) to do everything a D6 (VS) can do, but it won't be as usable.
  - esclerofilo 5y ago
    But Visual Studio 2019 is available for mac.
    - my123 5y ago
      It shares some code nowadays (started with a MonoDevelop codebase). However, Visual Studio (not Code) for Mac is mostly targeted at at C# or mobile development. If you want to make Windows apps, it just doesn't support that scenario.
    - vips7L 5y ago
      And they just announced they’re rewriting it to native for Mac in 2022…
jabroni_salad 5y ago
I actually just want them to fix connected standby and properly be able to do these things with low power. My phone (a oneplus 6) can be on standby for nearly a week. That windows laptops attempt at this mode drains the battery by the end of a workday is just pathetic. Instant resume should be available with no practical compromises.
- spicybright 5y ago
  That is seriously bad. Just as a data point, my 2019 mac sleeps perfectly for multiple days, no problem.
  - Godel_unicode 5y ago
    My 2019 Razer Blade does the same.
JadeNB 5y ago
> really hate the placement of the Ctrl key Macs used to be really customiseable, and they haven't got around to ripping all of that out yet. System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys You can control how the various keys behave.
derefr 5y ago
> Isn’t Microsoft embarrassed about this? Do Microsoft Surface devices have this problem (the heat/fans spinning/high battery drain while sleeping, I mean)? If not, then Microsoft has no need to be embarrassed; it’s the rest of the PC laptop industry that should be embarrassed for not shipping hardware that does the right thing when the OS asks it to. (Though, I mean, the rest of the PC industry should already be embarrassed, for still shipping new PCs in 2021 that don’t have Thunderbolt/USB4 ports, and desktop PCs that don’t even have a single USB-C port.) There’s also the fact that Microsoft is (perhaps by accident of fate) “building for the future”; a lot of Windows 11’s assumptions in particular make sense given hardware and CPU steppings in mind that should have shipped a year ago, but which are caught in the COVID logistical conga-line and so won’t be seen for another year. That includes e.g. Intel CPUs with ARM-like big/LITTLE designs.
- darzu 5y ago
  Yes, Surface devices have this problem. It was a frequent occurrence for me to put my Surface Book into my bag and later take it out completely dead or hot and drained.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Wouldn't put all the blame on hardware. It's a back and forth sometimes to get the OS and hardware working together. It's not a 50/50 responsibility split, but it's definitely not 100% on hardware.
tshaddox 5y ago
My bet is that Microsoft and Windows laptop manufacturers aren’t embarrassed by this because approximately no one uses their laptop as a portable device. The laptops just sit on the desk charging 99.9% of the time. People use their smartphones the rest of the time.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Most companies issue laptops instead of desktops. While commuting back and forth to work those are definitely asleep in a bag/briefcase.
- klodolph 5y ago
  Really? Maybe in 2020 or 2021, but not in 2019. My work laptop got dragged to meetings and gets taken on flights to remote offices. My personal laptop gets used in every room of the house.
pw6hv 5y ago
> As I was typing this, a great example of said broken crap, is Lenovo popping up a MessageBox asking me to reboot to update my firmware. Didn't software developers all agree well over a decade ago that windows stealing focus was not a good thing? So why then is a top of the line brand in the PC world writing shit like this? Don't think that MacOS spares you about that either. Update notifications are equally distracting.
- finalfire 5y ago
  > Don't think that MacOS spares you about that either. Update notifications are equally distracting. You're right but if I recall correctly notifications do not steal the focus.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  > why then is a top of the line brand in the PC world writing shit like this "It's OK when we do it"
orangecat 5y ago
Isn't Microsoft embarrassed about this? Yeah, I was astounded when I recently found out about the "modern standby" idiocy. I've almost always used Mac laptops, but I just assumed that at some point in the last 20 years the PC world would figure out reliable sleep. And it seems like they mostly did, and then Microsoft broke it for no good reason?
zeckalpha 5y ago
VS for Mac: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-2022-for-mac-preview-1-is-now-available/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-20...
- lillecarl 5y ago
  Isn't this the MonoDevelop/Xamarin Studio version of VS?
eatbitseveryday 5y ago
> Visual Studio ran on Mac Visual Studio Code does. Is that the same? Even has native M1 support.
- pxc 5y ago
  It's not the same at all. Visual Studio is an IDE (like Eclipse) and Visual Studio Code is an extensible text editor (like Emacs). It is pretty good though. It's enjoying a big surge in popularity lately and seems to deserve it.
devwastaken 5y ago
Microsoft released windows 11, so, no, they have no shame. Microsoft is a company without leadership, without direction, and without a central vision. The only feature of windows that people like, is that it continues to run the software they need. Other than that the OS itself gets in the way, stops your workflow, and makes your life harder. And the only other commercial alternative is just as bad in other ways. The natural result of letting the computer marker be controlled by a few big players.
seanw444 5y ago
Battery drain a problem? Join the Framework laptop movement. Mac bothers you slightly less than Windows does (and costs more for the same hardware)? Make the jump to Ubuntu and dip your leg into desktop Linux. If you're inseparable from Visual Studio, I'd think Wine could handle it.

allwein 5y ago

> and if Visual Studio ran on Mac I'd probably switch my PC out also Not sure if it supports all the features you need, but it exists. https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/

glenarma 5y ago
That’s just a rebranded Xamarin IDE - but for .NET development on Mac, I’ve found JetBrains Rider does most of what the full Visual Studio package does
- beermonster 5y ago
  Yes it's just Xamarin modified to look like a native Visual Studio for Mac. Much better off using Rider (also works nicely on Linux).
  - ddek 5y ago
    IntelliJ is still a little broken on wayland I think. Last I checked they were waiting on a patch to Swing, so right now it's only running under XWayland, it's fairly buggy and doesn't scale nicely. You also need to set some env variables or you'll get a blank screen. It still works pretty well though, which is better than any other similar IDE.
- hoistbypetard 5y ago
  I like Rider better even on Windows. My favorite thing about Visual Studio on Windows was always the debugger, and I think Clion and Rider have lapped them there in the past two years.
- ziml77 5y ago
  Seconding Rider if you're on macOS. It shares its analysis code with ReSharper, so it's extremely featureful. In fact, it's usually faster than VS + ReSharper because it isn't running two code analysis engines at once and it doesn't have to run the analysis out-of-process.
can16358p 5y ago
Note that if OP expects anything like the "real" Visual Studio that runs on Windows, this is really nothing compared to it. I'd even go further and actually prefer Vscode with the right extensions compared to this "Visual Studio".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 867-5309 5y ago
  sounds like when we try to run iTunes on Windows - each competitor is intentionally crapping on the other's users
  - Lamad123 5y ago
    iTunes is crappy in Macs, too!!
  - my123 5y ago
    Don't worry, the Music app on macOS is just as bad as iTunes on Windows...
  - ziml77 5y ago
    It's more that Visual Studio is a massive project that was built around running on Windows. It would be a huge undertaking to bring it over to another OS and probably not add nearly enough value. The only reason macOS has "Visual Studio" at all is because Microsoft bought out Xamarin and rebranded their Xamarin Studio product.
    - can16358p 5y ago
      Yup it would just not be worth it to bring real VS to macOS. Then why decrease its brand value by marketing a crappy product like Xamarin (which I think has always been bad, and I honestly don't know why MS bothered to buy it) as if it was VS? Just call it Xamarin, or VS "lite", or anything, but not VS as it is not VS.

nikau 5y ago

Your battery is likely worn from keeping it charged at 100% constantly, lenovo have an option to limit max charge to something like 80% which will greatly reduce battery wear, you just have to turn it off if you are actually planning to run it without AC for as long as possible.

motoboi 5y ago
His battery is likely worn by recharging cycles. As the computer is being discharged more often.
- nikau 5y ago
  Nope, its from charging to 100% constantly which accelerates wear massively. I've had my Lenovo carbon x1 for a few years set to 80% max charge and its battery life is still good. Battery stats report 480 charging cycles, capacity has dropped only 8 percent from rated.
  - motoboi 5y ago
    It’s not charging to 100% that wears batteries out. It’s storage at 100% that does that. If you charge to 50% and keep it there, it basically last years. If you use your notebook primarily on AC, battery is charged and kept on “storage” until you unplug from AC. Over the years, this is equivalent to a battery stored on a box. So, time stored on a box with 50% is better than 80%, which is also better than 100%. But. If your notebook is used primarily unplugged from AC, that 100% is better than 80%, because you’ll have fewer deeper discharges. Deep discharges is what form dentrites. Dentrities is what kill lithium batteries.
    - nikau 5y ago
      > If you use your notebook primarily on AC, battery is charged and kept on “storage” until you unplug from AC. Over the years, this is equivalent to a battery stored on a box. I'm not sure what you mean, by default most laptops will charge to 100% and keep trickle charging it to that level consistently while on AC. Setting a charge max of 40% would be ideal, but there is point where you want to maintain some level of runtime when removed from AC, so 80% is a reasonable compromise.

dustinmoris 5y ago

JetBrains Rider. If you care about quality, don't bother with Visual Studio at all.

pico303 5y ago
Or CLion, if you’re doing C++ or Rust development

tentacleuno 5y ago

> if Visual Studio ran on Mac It is! What do you mean? :)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sk0g 5y ago
The Mac version of Visual Studio is closer to a fork of MonoDevelop than mainline VS. Rider is a better experience than either though, IMO.

t_von_doom 5y ago

As a Mac user with the same gripe of the ctrl key placement: Remapping it to the caps lock works wonders :)

browningstreet 5y ago
I use so many keyboards, not all of which are under my control.. I wish I could, but it would bring chaos to my typing world.
- loonster 5y ago
  Something like that exists for DVORAK. Maybe someone else makes a similar product that works like an any keyboard. https://www.keyghost.com/qido/ https://www.keyghost.com/qido/
- selfup 5y ago
  You can set this in the OS itself.
  - manquer 5y ago
    Wouldn't you need root/admin access for that ?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

nyxaiur 5y ago

The implementation of the none S3 sleep on most windows laptops these days is not microsofts fault. Critical updates (firmware) always have priority and even on mac's you get negging pop-ups for updates all the time. That said you can fix everything what you said with one checkbox. It's not the pc which sucks it's you the user. For all the people downvoting. He is the equivalent of people making "screenshots" with their mobile phone instead of using printscrn. I bet you are complaining about your own users all the time and here you defend someone who can't even be bothered to look at the options he has. smh

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
The complaint was not that the firmware notification existed or was urgent, but that it stole input focus.

LindyTalker 5y ago

Visual studio running on Mac? I’ve been using visual studio code on it for years no problem. I’m now realizing there’s a difference between the two. Care to explain a little more why you use VS and not VSC?

mkr-hn 5y ago
Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code are completely different things. VSC can do a subset of what VS can do, but some people really need the full power of a traditional IDE. VS vs VSC is like the difference between a smartphone camera and a full camera platform. You can rig up an iPhone (VSC) to do everything a D6 (VS) can do, but it won't be as usable.
- esclerofilo 5y ago
  But Visual Studio 2019 is available for mac.
  - my123 5y ago
    It shares some code nowadays (started with a MonoDevelop codebase). However, Visual Studio (not Code) for Mac is mostly targeted at at C# or mobile development. If you want to make Windows apps, it just doesn't support that scenario.
  - vips7L 5y ago
    And they just announced they’re rewriting it to native for Mac in 2022…

jabroni_salad 5y ago

I actually just want them to fix connected standby and properly be able to do these things with low power. My phone (a oneplus 6) can be on standby for nearly a week. That windows laptops attempt at this mode drains the battery by the end of a workday is just pathetic. Instant resume should be available with no practical compromises.

spicybright 5y ago
That is seriously bad. Just as a data point, my 2019 mac sleeps perfectly for multiple days, no problem.
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  My 2019 Razer Blade does the same.

JadeNB 5y ago

> really hate the placement of the Ctrl key Macs used to be really customiseable, and they haven't got around to ripping all of that out yet. System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys You can control how the various keys behave.

derefr 5y ago

> Isn’t Microsoft embarrassed about this? Do Microsoft Surface devices have this problem (the heat/fans spinning/high battery drain while sleeping, I mean)? If not, then Microsoft has no need to be embarrassed; it’s the rest of the PC laptop industry that should be embarrassed for not shipping hardware that does the right thing when the OS asks it to. (Though, I mean, the rest of the PC industry should already be embarrassed, for still shipping new PCs in 2021 that don’t have Thunderbolt/USB4 ports, and desktop PCs that don’t even have a single USB-C port.) There’s also the fact that Microsoft is (perhaps by accident of fate) “building for the future”; a lot of Windows 11’s assumptions in particular make sense given hardware and CPU steppings in mind that should have shipped a year ago, but which are caught in the COVID logistical conga-line and so won’t be seen for another year. That includes e.g. Intel CPUs with ARM-like big/LITTLE designs.

darzu 5y ago
Yes, Surface devices have this problem. It was a frequent occurrence for me to put my Surface Book into my bag and later take it out completely dead or hot and drained.
spicybright 5y ago
Wouldn't put all the blame on hardware. It's a back and forth sometimes to get the OS and hardware working together. It's not a 50/50 responsibility split, but it's definitely not 100% on hardware.

tshaddox 5y ago

My bet is that Microsoft and Windows laptop manufacturers aren’t embarrassed by this because approximately no one uses their laptop as a portable device. The laptops just sit on the desk charging 99.9% of the time. People use their smartphones the rest of the time.

r00fus 5y ago
Most companies issue laptops instead of desktops. While commuting back and forth to work those are definitely asleep in a bag/briefcase.
klodolph 5y ago
Really? Maybe in 2020 or 2021, but not in 2019. My work laptop got dragged to meetings and gets taken on flights to remote offices. My personal laptop gets used in every room of the house.

pw6hv 5y ago

> As I was typing this, a great example of said broken crap, is Lenovo popping up a MessageBox asking me to reboot to update my firmware. Didn't software developers all agree well over a decade ago that windows stealing focus was not a good thing? So why then is a top of the line brand in the PC world writing shit like this? Don't think that MacOS spares you about that either. Update notifications are equally distracting.

finalfire 5y ago
> Don't think that MacOS spares you about that either. Update notifications are equally distracting. You're right but if I recall correctly notifications do not steal the focus.
throwawayboise 5y ago
> why then is a top of the line brand in the PC world writing shit like this "It's OK when we do it"

orangecat 5y ago

Isn't Microsoft embarrassed about this? Yeah, I was astounded when I recently found out about the "modern standby" idiocy. I've almost always used Mac laptops, but I just assumed that at some point in the last 20 years the PC world would figure out reliable sleep. And it seems like they mostly did, and then Microsoft broke it for no good reason?

zeckalpha 5y ago

VS for Mac: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-2022-for-mac-preview-1-is-now-available/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-20...

lillecarl 5y ago
Isn't this the MonoDevelop/Xamarin Studio version of VS?

eatbitseveryday 5y ago

> Visual Studio ran on Mac Visual Studio Code does. Is that the same? Even has native M1 support.

pxc 5y ago
It's not the same at all. Visual Studio is an IDE (like Eclipse) and Visual Studio Code is an extensible text editor (like Emacs). It is pretty good though. It's enjoying a big surge in popularity lately and seems to deserve it.

devwastaken 5y ago

Microsoft released windows 11, so, no, they have no shame. Microsoft is a company without leadership, without direction, and without a central vision. The only feature of windows that people like, is that it continues to run the software they need. Other than that the OS itself gets in the way, stops your workflow, and makes your life harder. And the only other commercial alternative is just as bad in other ways. The natural result of letting the computer marker be controlled by a few big players.

seanw444 5y ago

Battery drain a problem? Join the Framework laptop movement. Mac bothers you slightly less than Windows does (and costs more for the same hardware)? Make the jump to Ubuntu and dip your leg into desktop Linux. If you're inseparable from Visual Studio, I'd think Wine could handle it.