3 ms·

I am a big fan of showing two languages at the start. Statically typed Java/something so that the idea of data types is ingrained. Then rapidly switching to P

by urthor 5y ago

I am a big fan of showing two languages at the start. Statically typed Java/something so that the idea of data types is ingrained. Then rapidly switching to Python after the first lesson. A real problem I've seen (and had) with absolute beginners doing Python, is they really struggle with the types of abstract variables for the first little while when they're "getting stuff done." "Knowing" to use type() to debug your programs isn't something that comes intuitively to a novice who's been programming for all of 25 minutes, They have absolutely no idea that builtin is there or they need to use it. A quick Hello World in something with static types, and a "tour of data types" can go a long way. Also helps sell them on Python. I wonder if Typescript is suitably fun for this. Because I'm convinced that a significant part of the attraction of Python to beginners is pure aesthetics.

bborud 5y ago
I am not entirely convinced you need to worry too much about types in the sense we think of types. Sure, people have to have a basic understanding that there are different kinds of data, and that multiplying banana with poem doesn't make sense (well, actually, in Python it has an interpretation, so that was probably a bad example :-)). If your program has to figure out what type some variable is before operating on it, I think the aspiring programmer has already overcome the first few barriers and is already tackling a more advanced subject. I think initially the understanding that there are different classes of values you can assign to variables and that getting these confused can produce unwanted results is a very good first insight. And when that settles in the students mind, they might be receptive to "then there's this family of languages that get really particular about what goes where". (I also think it is important to try to not involve too much technical terminology early on. Have a look at Richard Feynman's lecture about the double-slit experiment and note how he uses absolutely no technical language. It is so well done it didn't even occur to me until after I saw the talk)
wink 5y ago
Probably biased here, but back in the days before frameworks I found plain PHP with HTTP a good case of explaining, out of necessity. Every variable arrives as a string anyway and you need to check if it's actually an integer if you want to use it as such (let's ignore weird autocasting). On the other hand I'm not sure it's teaching a good lesson here, because you're simply taking the un-typedness of HTTP parameters as an example, whereas in other environments you would simply explain there are number data types and strings and others...

by urthor 5y ago

bborud 5y ago

I am not entirely convinced you need to worry too much about types in the sense we think of types. Sure, people have to have a basic understanding that there are different kinds of data, and that multiplying banana with poem doesn't make sense (well, actually, in Python it has an interpretation, so that was probably a bad example :-)). If your program has to figure out what type some variable is before operating on it, I think the aspiring programmer has already overcome the first few barriers and is already tackling a more advanced subject. I think initially the understanding that there are different classes of values you can assign to variables and that getting these confused can produce unwanted results is a very good first insight. And when that settles in the students mind, they might be receptive to "then there's this family of languages that get really particular about what goes where". (I also think it is important to try to not involve too much technical terminology early on. Have a look at Richard Feynman's lecture about the double-slit experiment and note how he uses absolutely no technical language. It is so well done it didn't even occur to me until after I saw the talk)

wink 5y ago

Probably biased here, but back in the days before frameworks I found plain PHP with HTTP a good case of explaining, out of necessity. Every variable arrives as a string anyway and you need to check if it's actually an integer if you want to use it as such (let's ignore weird autocasting). On the other hand I'm not sure it's teaching a good lesson here, because you're simply taking the un-typedness of HTTP parameters as an example, whereas in other environments you would simply explain there are number data types and strings and others...