5 ms·

I'm not super pro-union (plenty of mess there) but there really are some reasonable asks union side. My guess, folks have been NOT working the 12+ hour days, h

I'm not super pro-union (plenty of mess there) but there really are some reasonable asks union side. My guess, folks have been NOT working the 12+ hour days, have NOT been doing the "rolling lunches" and other wild hollywood stuff (that a construction worker would think was crazy) during COVID. Might have opened their eyes to life outside of the hollywood dream machine. Maybe look for things as basic as: Mandated stop production 30 minute lunches. Mandated 10 hour turnarounds seem totally reasonable And bottom line, new media isn't new media anymore, it's big business so sorting that out also makes sense I've never fully understood why hollywood can't always take a standard 30 minute lunch break. The job site across the street, lunch time, everyone puts down their stuff and eats and relaxes. And end of day, they are gone (unless it's a rush and paying overtime). (note this is my list - union's position may be different etc).

TheDudeMan 5y ago
Aren't there already laws that grant breaks during work? Does Hollywood not abide by those? Who polices that sort of thing? (Also not very pro-union.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- breadzeppelin__ 5y ago
  Not related to hollywood but I worked wildland fire for the local sheriff for a couple years and the 'mandated lunch breaks' were pretty much bullshit. MAYBE 15 minutes to stop and eat (often not even sitting down), then get back to work but had to report at least a half hour of unpaid downtime on the shift report at the end of the day. No wonder that area expertise is also hemorrhaging skilled workers. Luckily it was only part time for me but those guys are really getting fucked over between low pay and the ridiculous breaks
- mchusma 5y ago
  They have to abide by them, which is what I can't understand here. I'm in California and the laws are strict, it's easy to sue, and the companies involved (e.g. Disney) are giant. So I just can't see them getting away with violating labor laws. I assume they are looking for protection above and beyond what the law requires? I can't find the actual demands anywhere. The website and links are all basically propaganda links (no section that says "this is what we are asking for").
  - tessierashpool 5y ago
    > I just can't see them getting away with violating labor laws tell me you have never in your working life gone anywhere near the entertainment industry without telling me you have never in your working life gone anywhere near the entertainment industry.
- slownews45 5y ago
  No - those laws do not apply in Hollywood. This is in part because with a CBA (union agreement) the union can bargain away rights you might otherwise have under law. This can also be because wage orders (ie #12) modify rules or provide for exceptions. And then even if on a union set, some things will be ignored (despite all the safety talk from the unions some trades find some of the safety practices a bit overboard or impractical -> looking at you fall prevention standards etc) especially for old timers who started before some of the safety rules came in (juicers / grips etc). So union lunch break rules etc control - but can be ignored, and enforcement would be through a grievance usually vs a court case in some cases etc.
- oceanghost 5y ago
  I worked at a Walmart 20 years ago that would lock employees in at night-- even when their shifts were over, in an attempt to get them to work extra hours. My first gig out of college-- the company said they didn't pay vacations or holidays for the first 6 months. I had no idea this was illegal in California, but one of the other hires did and got them in some major amount of trouble for it. They also asked me to sign a non-compete, I knew that was illegal and told them "I'll sign if you want, but these are illegal in California so its unenforceable." And they also forbade me from talking about my compensation, which is illegal. I later found out some people were making half what I was, and some people were making significantly more than I was. During the negotiations they told me they absolutely couldn't go over number X, when in fact that was not true. Of course they didn't want people comparing salaries. Employment is the wild west. A law just means you have some recourse when they do a thing, not that they won't do it.
  - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
    Apparently Walmart has made some changes for the better then. I worked there for a 2ish years, right up to COVID. You'd get in trouble (and your boss too!) for working very much overtime. Also you'd get in trouble if you didn't take at least a 30 minute lunch break, and you'd get in serious trouble for working off the clock. Walmart probably got too many lawsuits or something.
    - oceanghost 5y ago
      Two things happened in California (I don't know if you're in CA of course) started cracking down on employers making employees work through their breaks--and-- forcing employers to actually pay for hours worked with severe penalties. This is why they're so strict now, at least in CA. Then they got walloped with a lawsuit about it. I actually used the situation to my advantage. Once I realized what was going on-- I snuck out the loading dock which was never closed and took leisurely lunches. It was assumed you couldn't get out, so you hadn't. I can't have been the only Walmart rogue who realized this, but I never saw anyone else do it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wal-mart-attacked-for-locking-in-overnight-workers-at-its-stores-74288.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wal-mart-a...
- toast0 5y ago
  > Aren't there already laws that grant breaks during work? Last I looked (when working a 24/7 single person operations desk in California), you could just pay extra hours instead of having a 'mandated' break. For that role, having a legal break wasn't really feasible for most of the shifts. How are you going to get someone to cover for 30 minutes only at 4 am in the middle of the graveyard shift? Anyway, that wasn't too bad, I did 4 pm to midnight and noon to midnight shifts, and it was OK to wander out for a few minutes to pick up takeout and eat at the desk. Lots of waiting around looking at the screen that stayed green most of the time. (Restart daemons when things turned red) Generally incidents only happened while developers were in the office, and there was one time the datacenter called to report a power outage, but it turned out it was just the breaker on the lighting circuit.
petee 5y ago
Most productions started up in August 2020 with strict Covid protocols; personally I've had 1 week off since then. Crews have been doing full days, with masks. Normal work under harder conditions. They finally offered 10hr turn around after we voted to strike; and its with strings. They cant even give an hour for sleep. Ive done the 14-17hr days, with 9hr turn around, and I live 1hr 20min from set, so thats 6hrs personal time a day to eat and sleep. As for lunch, many shows do have a 30 min lunch, but the flow works out that not everyone gets an equal lunch, some have responsibilities that require them back on set before the others. Production will not wait on one person to eat. Also 30 minutes in a 16 hour day isnt much anyway
- slownews45 5y ago
  Don't worry - for those of us not in industry or industry adjacent the industry seems totally crazy - ie, we get overtime occasionally, but hollywood seems built on it Seeing the money being thrown at SVOD by apple/netflix et al, where does it even go if not into below the line pockets? The production budgets for some of these things rival movies of the past.
  - petee 5y ago
    Thats the other big issue - we helped streaming get it's feet by allowing lower pay, lower benefits, and longer hours, back in 2007-8 since streaming wasnt yet considered 'viable'. They agreed to revisit it in the future when it was viable. Now they won't even discuss it. Extra money goes right to the companies. Actors dont get the same residuals from streaming either, just look at Scarlett Johansson's lawsuit. Streaming contract language is based on number of subscribers, so before Disney+ launched, they made a bunch of movies under the zero-to-tiny subscribers model, essentially a low budget contract, to avoid paying normal rates, but these were full fledged films and shows.
    - rndgermandude 5y ago
      My soul weeps for poor (net worth: 165 million according to google) Scarlett Johnansson. She was only paid 20 million for that movie, but then scammed out of additional royalties by Disney. How is somebody supposed to get by on a mere 20 million per movie. Making that movie took away half a year of her life! I think it's not just the studios' greed that causes the normal Hollywood workers to get fucked, it's also A-list actors' greed.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nradov 5y ago
Sometimes when shooting on location with permits to close city streets and the like there are heavy costs to running over the schedule. Or in some cases it's not possible at all. They might also be using expensive rental equipment which has to be returned by a certain time. So it can be cheaper to just force everyone to work through lunch and pay the overtime. (I don't think abusing workers that way is justified just to save a buck and I hope the union members achieve their goals.)
tuatoru 5y ago
> folks have been NOT working the 12+ hour days, have NOT been doing the "rolling lunches" and other wild hollywood stuff (that a construction worker would think was crazy) Why would a construction worker think 12+ hour days are crazy? My experience is that this is normal for roading workers in the road-making season. One-hour lunches, though: now that's just crazy talk.
diskzero 5y ago
I worked as a grip on numerous film and video shoots in the 80s and 90s. The working conditions were brutal but the pay was good. Lot's of people wanted to do the work, so the situation was ripe for the type of working conditions that are being reported. If you have ever worked on a film set (I can't comment on all of the environments IATSE members work in), it can be complete and total chaos with very small moments of coordination. I don't want to excuse the madness of why talent, technical and directorial can't all coordinate to improve the overall efficiency of the set. This is why people don't just put down their equipment at noon and grab lunch. Everyone is standing around super-busy doing nothing until that one magical moment where everything aligns and you better gosh darn be ready right then and there or you will find yourself replaced. Like it said, it could be brutal!

TheDudeMan 5y ago

Aren't there already laws that grant breaks during work? Does Hollywood not abide by those? Who polices that sort of thing? (Also not very pro-union.)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
breadzeppelin__ 5y ago
Not related to hollywood but I worked wildland fire for the local sheriff for a couple years and the 'mandated lunch breaks' were pretty much bullshit. MAYBE 15 minutes to stop and eat (often not even sitting down), then get back to work but had to report at least a half hour of unpaid downtime on the shift report at the end of the day. No wonder that area expertise is also hemorrhaging skilled workers. Luckily it was only part time for me but those guys are really getting fucked over between low pay and the ridiculous breaks
mchusma 5y ago
They have to abide by them, which is what I can't understand here. I'm in California and the laws are strict, it's easy to sue, and the companies involved (e.g. Disney) are giant. So I just can't see them getting away with violating labor laws. I assume they are looking for protection above and beyond what the law requires? I can't find the actual demands anywhere. The website and links are all basically propaganda links (no section that says "this is what we are asking for").
- tessierashpool 5y ago
  > I just can't see them getting away with violating labor laws tell me you have never in your working life gone anywhere near the entertainment industry without telling me you have never in your working life gone anywhere near the entertainment industry.
slownews45 5y ago
No - those laws do not apply in Hollywood. This is in part because with a CBA (union agreement) the union can bargain away rights you might otherwise have under law. This can also be because wage orders (ie #12) modify rules or provide for exceptions. And then even if on a union set, some things will be ignored (despite all the safety talk from the unions some trades find some of the safety practices a bit overboard or impractical -> looking at you fall prevention standards etc) especially for old timers who started before some of the safety rules came in (juicers / grips etc). So union lunch break rules etc control - but can be ignored, and enforcement would be through a grievance usually vs a court case in some cases etc.
oceanghost 5y ago
I worked at a Walmart 20 years ago that would lock employees in at night-- even when their shifts were over, in an attempt to get them to work extra hours. My first gig out of college-- the company said they didn't pay vacations or holidays for the first 6 months. I had no idea this was illegal in California, but one of the other hires did and got them in some major amount of trouble for it. They also asked me to sign a non-compete, I knew that was illegal and told them "I'll sign if you want, but these are illegal in California so its unenforceable." And they also forbade me from talking about my compensation, which is illegal. I later found out some people were making half what I was, and some people were making significantly more than I was. During the negotiations they told me they absolutely couldn't go over number X, when in fact that was not true. Of course they didn't want people comparing salaries. Employment is the wild west. A law just means you have some recourse when they do a thing, not that they won't do it.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  Apparently Walmart has made some changes for the better then. I worked there for a 2ish years, right up to COVID. You'd get in trouble (and your boss too!) for working very much overtime. Also you'd get in trouble if you didn't take at least a 30 minute lunch break, and you'd get in serious trouble for working off the clock. Walmart probably got too many lawsuits or something.
  - oceanghost 5y ago
    Two things happened in California (I don't know if you're in CA of course) started cracking down on employers making employees work through their breaks--and-- forcing employers to actually pay for hours worked with severe penalties. This is why they're so strict now, at least in CA. Then they got walloped with a lawsuit about it. I actually used the situation to my advantage. Once I realized what was going on-- I snuck out the loading dock which was never closed and took leisurely lunches. It was assumed you couldn't get out, so you hadn't. I can't have been the only Walmart rogue who realized this, but I never saw anyone else do it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wal-mart-attacked-for-locking-in-overnight-workers-at-its-stores-74288.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wal-mart-a...
toast0 5y ago
> Aren't there already laws that grant breaks during work? Last I looked (when working a 24/7 single person operations desk in California), you could just pay extra hours instead of having a 'mandated' break. For that role, having a legal break wasn't really feasible for most of the shifts. How are you going to get someone to cover for 30 minutes only at 4 am in the middle of the graveyard shift? Anyway, that wasn't too bad, I did 4 pm to midnight and noon to midnight shifts, and it was OK to wander out for a few minutes to pick up takeout and eat at the desk. Lots of waiting around looking at the screen that stayed green most of the time. (Restart daemons when things turned red) Generally incidents only happened while developers were in the office, and there was one time the datacenter called to report a power outage, but it turned out it was just the breaker on the lighting circuit.

petee 5y ago

Most productions started up in August 2020 with strict Covid protocols; personally I've had 1 week off since then. Crews have been doing full days, with masks. Normal work under harder conditions. They finally offered 10hr turn around after we voted to strike; and its with strings. They cant even give an hour for sleep. Ive done the 14-17hr days, with 9hr turn around, and I live 1hr 20min from set, so thats 6hrs personal time a day to eat and sleep. As for lunch, many shows do have a 30 min lunch, but the flow works out that not everyone gets an equal lunch, some have responsibilities that require them back on set before the others. Production will not wait on one person to eat. Also 30 minutes in a 16 hour day isnt much anyway

slownews45 5y ago
Don't worry - for those of us not in industry or industry adjacent the industry seems totally crazy - ie, we get overtime occasionally, but hollywood seems built on it Seeing the money being thrown at SVOD by apple/netflix et al, where does it even go if not into below the line pockets? The production budgets for some of these things rival movies of the past.
- petee 5y ago
  Thats the other big issue - we helped streaming get it's feet by allowing lower pay, lower benefits, and longer hours, back in 2007-8 since streaming wasnt yet considered 'viable'. They agreed to revisit it in the future when it was viable. Now they won't even discuss it. Extra money goes right to the companies. Actors dont get the same residuals from streaming either, just look at Scarlett Johansson's lawsuit. Streaming contract language is based on number of subscribers, so before Disney+ launched, they made a bunch of movies under the zero-to-tiny subscribers model, essentially a low budget contract, to avoid paying normal rates, but these were full fledged films and shows.
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    My soul weeps for poor (net worth: 165 million according to google) Scarlett Johnansson. She was only paid 20 million for that movie, but then scammed out of additional royalties by Disney. How is somebody supposed to get by on a mere 20 million per movie. Making that movie took away half a year of her life! I think it's not just the studios' greed that causes the normal Hollywood workers to get fucked, it's also A-list actors' greed.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nradov 5y ago

Sometimes when shooting on location with permits to close city streets and the like there are heavy costs to running over the schedule. Or in some cases it's not possible at all. They might also be using expensive rental equipment which has to be returned by a certain time. So it can be cheaper to just force everyone to work through lunch and pay the overtime. (I don't think abusing workers that way is justified just to save a buck and I hope the union members achieve their goals.)

tuatoru 5y ago

> folks have been NOT working the 12+ hour days, have NOT been doing the "rolling lunches" and other wild hollywood stuff (that a construction worker would think was crazy) Why would a construction worker think 12+ hour days are crazy? My experience is that this is normal for roading workers in the road-making season. One-hour lunches, though: now that's just crazy talk.

diskzero 5y ago

I worked as a grip on numerous film and video shoots in the 80s and 90s. The working conditions were brutal but the pay was good. Lot's of people wanted to do the work, so the situation was ripe for the type of working conditions that are being reported. If you have ever worked on a film set (I can't comment on all of the environments IATSE members work in), it can be complete and total chaos with very small moments of coordination. I don't want to excuse the madness of why talent, technical and directorial can't all coordinate to improve the overall efficiency of the set. This is why people don't just put down their equipment at noon and grab lunch. Everyone is standing around super-busy doing nothing until that one magical moment where everything aligns and you better gosh darn be ready right then and there or you will find yourself replaced. Like it said, it could be brutal!