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yeah, I came out of that viewing with a reduced opinion of Bezos and it may not be fair to judge him based on just a moment. Musk seems to approach space as a s

yeah, I came out of that viewing with a reduced opinion of Bezos and it may not be fair to judge him based on just a moment. Musk seems to approach space as a serious thing with deep existential consequences to failing. This is not to excuse Musk who has a litany of personality flaws but it just seems that one is a serious person and the other is not.

CapitalistCartr 5y ago
Space IS musk's business; Bezos is playing. His business is Amazon, and always will be.
- ulfw 5y ago
  and Tesla is just a toy or what. Come on.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    Elon has said from the start that his end game is Mars colonization. All of his other enterprises are means to achieve that. He sounded like a loon back then, but not now.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      Still feel like Venus is the more serious option Mars is easier to "practice on", and get some toy colonies going, but once scale starts to matter, Venus is better. At some point, you rather have too much energy and good self-sufficiency at geological scales, than too little energy and bad self-sufficiency. Of course this stuff has been debated endlessly, but I do not recall reading the "Mars is the stepping stone, Venus is the real deal" needle thread. If Musk was serious, I think he would admit this, rather than hype-beasting the stepping stone and the real deal.
      - wonderwonder 5y ago
        Musk is ~50. His goal is to get a colony on mars. Mars is probably a lot easier to start with. Venus is a target probably 50 years after all of us have died. Its going to be the goal of someone that has likely not even been born yet. He is serious that's why he is aiming for an achievable goal. Venus is not an achievable goal with our technology level.
        Ericson2314 5y ago
        If he were to come out and say "Mars is the stepping stone that I can do within my lifetime, and Venus is the real goal we can only think about once we establish the demand on Mars, probably after I'm dead", that would be great and I would have more respect for him.
        0des 5y ago
        The SSL cert in the 'employer' link on your profile is broken.
      - BitwiseFool 5y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean with Venusian colonization. The surface is so utterly hostile that all probes we've managed to land only last for at most a few hours due to the intense atmospheric pressure, corrosive atmosphere, and temperatures hotter than the melting point of lead. Floating balloons were considered, but it turns out those have a whole host of practical engineering concerns that rule them out. Plus, getting back into orbit is nearly impossible from said cloudtop balloons. You'd basically need a full sized orbital rocket like the Falcon 9 because the gravity is basically the same and the atmosphere is still a major concern.
  - b112 5y ago
    Tesla is how you make everything for Mars. H2, petrol, they need O2. Mars needs solar power, batteries, motors, and the ability to build vehicles of labour. Guess what Tesla does? It supports Mars.
    - ccozan 5y ago
      I said that many times to my friends, Musk has created an entire tech ecosystem that supports human life on Mars. The gig with the android is the last piece: there are dangers in space, where humans are not safe. This is where this comes in place.
heurisko 5y ago
> Musk seems to approach space as a serious thing Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt. My colleagues liked it, but I found it ... disappointing, that it seemed to signal an end of an era that did see space as a serious thing, like in the film For All Mankind.
- wly_cdgr 5y ago
  Serious != humorless
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  I thought launching the car was genius. It captured the attention of so many people that otherwise would not be interested in the launch. Parents saw it as a way to capture their kids imagination (at least I did). Something had to go up, may as well not waste the experience. Wonder how many of Space X's contracts are a result of that moment.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  They had to launch a test payload. Might as well make it a fun one too.
- tibyat 5y ago
  It was just a rocket test...
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  > Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt. I'd say maybe 10% of that stunt was for publicity. The rocket had to be tested, it had to include a payload, and sending a suit to space provided extra data as well. edit: let's also not forget that there always been an element of humor in spaceflight. Apollo 10's callsigns were Snoopy and Charlie Brown. Watch the funny moonwalk videos. Read transcripts of flights. It's okay to have a laugh in space. The astronauts who make it to Mars will sorely need it.
  - heurisko 5y ago
    > I'd say maybe 10% of that stunt was for publicity. It was the dominant media image at the time. It was 100% publicity. There is a difference between convivial behaviour between people on a mission, and a stunt by a private company. I find the Pioneer Plaque cool and thought provoking. Launching a roadster into space? Not so much.
WalterBright 5y ago
> This is not to excuse Musk who has a litany of personality flaws Geez. Who doesn't have personality flaws?
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  We all do :) I was comparing two people and trying to make it clear I did not expect anyone to be perfect. I am personally a fan of Musk and think he is making the world a better place.
- mmmpop 5y ago
  Came to post this too. Bill Gates has plenty himself (and worse ones so far as I am concerned) but no one seems to mention that with the frequency they do Elon. Perhaps far fewer envy Gates' life compared to Elon's?
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Envy? Interesting accusation to throw out there. It is more believable that Bill Gates isn't really in the news much these days, but Elon is.
    - mmmpop 5y ago
      Just look at Bill and listen to him speak... that guy ain't talking his way into any romantic adventures if he weren't a gazillionaire. Elon's hair plugs aside, at least he's got a personality and isn't the ugliest guy in tech. So yeah, I'm coming from it totally from vanity but we're all human right? You couldn't pay me to be Bill Gates but I'd trade lives with Elon, no doubt.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        Heh, I wouldn't take either one's life, for any amount of money. Now, if I could have 0.1% of either of their money and quietly continue to live as I do now, sign me up!
      - 5y ago

CapitalistCartr 5y ago

Space IS musk's business; Bezos is playing. His business is Amazon, and always will be.

ulfw 5y ago
and Tesla is just a toy or what. Come on.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  Elon has said from the start that his end game is Mars colonization. All of his other enterprises are means to achieve that. He sounded like a loon back then, but not now.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    Still feel like Venus is the more serious option Mars is easier to "practice on", and get some toy colonies going, but once scale starts to matter, Venus is better. At some point, you rather have too much energy and good self-sufficiency at geological scales, than too little energy and bad self-sufficiency. Of course this stuff has been debated endlessly, but I do not recall reading the "Mars is the stepping stone, Venus is the real deal" needle thread. If Musk was serious, I think he would admit this, rather than hype-beasting the stepping stone and the real deal.
    - wonderwonder 5y ago
      Musk is ~50. His goal is to get a colony on mars. Mars is probably a lot easier to start with. Venus is a target probably 50 years after all of us have died. Its going to be the goal of someone that has likely not even been born yet. He is serious that's why he is aiming for an achievable goal. Venus is not an achievable goal with our technology level.
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        If he were to come out and say "Mars is the stepping stone that I can do within my lifetime, and Venus is the real goal we can only think about once we establish the demand on Mars, probably after I'm dead", that would be great and I would have more respect for him.
        0des 5y ago
        The SSL cert in the 'employer' link on your profile is broken.
    - BitwiseFool 5y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean with Venusian colonization. The surface is so utterly hostile that all probes we've managed to land only last for at most a few hours due to the intense atmospheric pressure, corrosive atmosphere, and temperatures hotter than the melting point of lead. Floating balloons were considered, but it turns out those have a whole host of practical engineering concerns that rule them out. Plus, getting back into orbit is nearly impossible from said cloudtop balloons. You'd basically need a full sized orbital rocket like the Falcon 9 because the gravity is basically the same and the atmosphere is still a major concern.
- b112 5y ago
  Tesla is how you make everything for Mars. H2, petrol, they need O2. Mars needs solar power, batteries, motors, and the ability to build vehicles of labour. Guess what Tesla does? It supports Mars.
  - ccozan 5y ago
    I said that many times to my friends, Musk has created an entire tech ecosystem that supports human life on Mars. The gig with the android is the last piece: there are dangers in space, where humans are not safe. This is where this comes in place.

heurisko 5y ago

> Musk seems to approach space as a serious thing Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt. My colleagues liked it, but I found it ... disappointing, that it seemed to signal an end of an era that did see space as a serious thing, like in the film For All Mankind.

wly_cdgr 5y ago
Serious != humorless
wonderwonder 5y ago
I thought launching the car was genius. It captured the attention of so many people that otherwise would not be interested in the launch. Parents saw it as a way to capture their kids imagination (at least I did). Something had to go up, may as well not waste the experience. Wonder how many of Space X's contracts are a result of that moment.
ceejayoz 5y ago
They had to launch a test payload. Might as well make it a fun one too.
tibyat 5y ago
It was just a rocket test...
lapetitejort 5y ago
> Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt. I'd say maybe 10% of that stunt was for publicity. The rocket had to be tested, it had to include a payload, and sending a suit to space provided extra data as well. edit: let's also not forget that there always been an element of humor in spaceflight. Apollo 10's callsigns were Snoopy and Charlie Brown. Watch the funny moonwalk videos. Read transcripts of flights. It's okay to have a laugh in space. The astronauts who make it to Mars will sorely need it.
- heurisko 5y ago
  > I'd say maybe 10% of that stunt was for publicity. It was the dominant media image at the time. It was 100% publicity. There is a difference between convivial behaviour between people on a mission, and a stunt by a private company. I find the Pioneer Plaque cool and thought provoking. Launching a roadster into space? Not so much.

WalterBright 5y ago

> This is not to excuse Musk who has a litany of personality flaws Geez. Who doesn't have personality flaws?

wonderwonder 5y ago
We all do :) I was comparing two people and trying to make it clear I did not expect anyone to be perfect. I am personally a fan of Musk and think he is making the world a better place.
mmmpop 5y ago
Came to post this too. Bill Gates has plenty himself (and worse ones so far as I am concerned) but no one seems to mention that with the frequency they do Elon. Perhaps far fewer envy Gates' life compared to Elon's?
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Envy? Interesting accusation to throw out there. It is more believable that Bill Gates isn't really in the news much these days, but Elon is.
  - mmmpop 5y ago
    Just look at Bill and listen to him speak... that guy ain't talking his way into any romantic adventures if he weren't a gazillionaire. Elon's hair plugs aside, at least he's got a personality and isn't the ugliest guy in tech. So yeah, I'm coming from it totally from vanity but we're all human right? You couldn't pay me to be Bill Gates but I'd trade lives with Elon, no doubt.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      Heh, I wouldn't take either one's life, for any amount of money. Now, if I could have 0.1% of either of their money and quietly continue to live as I do now, sign me up!
    - 5y ago