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I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. As people or groups acquire

I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. As people or groups acquire more resources through their capitalist success, the obvious next step for them is to distort the system to their advantage through regulatory capture. A "free market" can only be sustained until someone gets rich enough to bribe themselves into an unfair advantage.

stronglikedan 5y ago
It's still the best system we've ever had (without the crony part). I'm all for making it better, or even replacing it, just not with something that has been tried before. Especially something that's been tried and failed many times, at the cost of millions of lives.
- malermeister 5y ago
  I'd argue something better was there in the form of Socialist Yugoslavia - an economically successful country, with social freedoms and freedom of movement (only passport that was able to freely travel both blocks during the cold war!), greater economic self-determination than today's capitalist systems (all companies were worker-run coops, competing in the marketplace with leadership elected by workers). Unfortunately, ethnic strife and nationalism brought it to an end. I also think that line of reasoning ignores the opportunity cost of not trying - it's easy for us to condemn other systems for killing people when we are not part of the millions in the global south being killed by capitalism _right now_. Try telling a person living in the Congo, ravaged by warlords fighting for resources to sell on the marketplace, how capitalism is "the best system we've ever had" and see how they feel about it.
imtringued 5y ago
> I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. I don't know what you mean by "the system" but land value taxes and negative interest rates would solve most of the problems. Of course the fact that something as obvious as land value taxes isn't universal and that economics don't even want to think about negative interest rates tells you that we are still far away from a practically realizable "utopia". Let's be serious. Land ownership is permanent in a world where almost everything else isn't. If you want a dynasty you buy things that can last generations. How does one value a perpetual asset like land? Everyone has a different time frame. Some may only consider the next 10 years of returns in their valuation of the land. Some may go as far as 100 years. As the total yield of the asset is potentially infinite, land becomes an increasingly speculative investment. Since shelter is a basic human need, these yields are obtained through coercion and simply diverted from the people who worked to earn their money. If the government collects that money it can then reduce indirect taxes that fund infrastructure and services that increase the value of the land and tax the recipient of the services directly. If you do not want those services then just move somewhere else.

stronglikedan 5y ago

It's still the best system we've ever had (without the crony part). I'm all for making it better, or even replacing it, just not with something that has been tried before. Especially something that's been tried and failed many times, at the cost of millions of lives.

malermeister 5y ago
I'd argue something better was there in the form of Socialist Yugoslavia - an economically successful country, with social freedoms and freedom of movement (only passport that was able to freely travel both blocks during the cold war!), greater economic self-determination than today's capitalist systems (all companies were worker-run coops, competing in the marketplace with leadership elected by workers). Unfortunately, ethnic strife and nationalism brought it to an end. I also think that line of reasoning ignores the opportunity cost of not trying - it's easy for us to condemn other systems for killing people when we are not part of the millions in the global south being killed by capitalism _right now_. Try telling a person living in the Congo, ravaged by warlords fighting for resources to sell on the marketplace, how capitalism is "the best system we've ever had" and see how they feel about it.

imtringued 5y ago

> I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. I don't know what you mean by "the system" but land value taxes and negative interest rates would solve most of the problems. Of course the fact that something as obvious as land value taxes isn't universal and that economics don't even want to think about negative interest rates tells you that we are still far away from a practically realizable "utopia". Let's be serious. Land ownership is permanent in a world where almost everything else isn't. If you want a dynasty you buy things that can last generations. How does one value a perpetual asset like land? Everyone has a different time frame. Some may only consider the next 10 years of returns in their valuation of the land. Some may go as far as 100 years. As the total yield of the asset is potentially infinite, land becomes an increasingly speculative investment. Since shelter is a basic human need, these yields are obtained through coercion and simply diverted from the people who worked to earn their money. If the government collects that money it can then reduce indirect taxes that fund infrastructure and services that increase the value of the land and tax the recipient of the services directly. If you do not want those services then just move somewhere else.