4 ms·

Even though i'm no fan, i think that capitalism is a matches better with our genes. Competition for resources and mates seems to be what drives us. Criminals an

by scns 5y ago

Even though i'm no fan, i think that capitalism is a matches better with our genes. Competition for resources and mates seems to be what drives us. Criminals and scientists alike exert the highest effort till they hit 30 years of age. The old status pyramid does not care, if we wish it away. But i still think better forms of living are possible. Instead of a tribal us vs them, be it neighbour / sports team / city / state / skin colour / political affiliation / whatever... I think a more inclusive, communal style of living is possible. Would lower the rate of depression caused by loneliness / alienation too i think.

stronglikedan 5y ago
> Even though i'm no fan, i think that capitalism is a matches better with our genes. Capitalism can be great for all. Unfortunately, in the US at least, we only have crony capitalism.
- malermeister 5y ago
  I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. As people or groups acquire more resources through their capitalist success, the obvious next step for them is to distort the system to their advantage through regulatory capture. A "free market" can only be sustained until someone gets rich enough to bribe themselves into an unfair advantage.
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    It's still the best system we've ever had (without the crony part). I'm all for making it better, or even replacing it, just not with something that has been tried before. Especially something that's been tried and failed many times, at the cost of millions of lives.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      I'd argue something better was there in the form of Socialist Yugoslavia - an economically successful country, with social freedoms and freedom of movement (only passport that was able to freely travel both blocks during the cold war!), greater economic self-determination than today's capitalist systems (all companies were worker-run coops, competing in the marketplace with leadership elected by workers). Unfortunately, ethnic strife and nationalism brought it to an end. I also think that line of reasoning ignores the opportunity cost of not trying - it's easy for us to condemn other systems for killing people when we are not part of the millions in the global south being killed by capitalism _right now_. Try telling a person living in the Congo, ravaged by warlords fighting for resources to sell on the marketplace, how capitalism is "the best system we've ever had" and see how they feel about it.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    > I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. I don't know what you mean by "the system" but land value taxes and negative interest rates would solve most of the problems. Of course the fact that something as obvious as land value taxes isn't universal and that economics don't even want to think about negative interest rates tells you that we are still far away from a practically realizable "utopia". Let's be serious. Land ownership is permanent in a world where almost everything else isn't. If you want a dynasty you buy things that can last generations. How does one value a perpetual asset like land? Everyone has a different time frame. Some may only consider the next 10 years of returns in their valuation of the land. Some may go as far as 100 years. As the total yield of the asset is potentially infinite, land becomes an increasingly speculative investment. Since shelter is a basic human need, these yields are obtained through coercion and simply diverted from the people who worked to earn their money. If the government collects that money it can then reduce indirect taxes that fund infrastructure and services that increase the value of the land and tax the recipient of the services directly. If you do not want those services then just move somewhere else.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  >in the US at least, we only have crony capitalism. They're the same thing. You wouldn't distinguish communism from "crony communism," would you? Of course not; that would be absurd. Both systems create perverse incentives, and it is unproductive when everyone continues ignoring that fact.
iammisc 5y ago
> Would lower the rate of depression caused by loneliness / alienation too i think. depression is caused by the fact life today is too easy
- imtringued 5y ago
  You mean it's easy to withdraw from society. Just move to a small town, work at a gas station and watch netflix all day. It's easy.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    No I mean that life is too easy. Depression is caused by feeling that our actions do not translate into consequences in our daily life. When we are unable to achieve anything by our own hands, we start to feel that life is out of control, and depression quickly sinks in. This is the most common form of depression today. One does not even need to move to a small town or work at a gas station. Most can just leech off parents.

by scns 5y ago

stronglikedan 5y ago

> Even though i'm no fan, i think that capitalism is a matches better with our genes. Capitalism can be great for all. Unfortunately, in the US at least, we only have crony capitalism.

malermeister 5y ago
I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. As people or groups acquire more resources through their capitalist success, the obvious next step for them is to distort the system to their advantage through regulatory capture. A "free market" can only be sustained until someone gets rich enough to bribe themselves into an unfair advantage.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  It's still the best system we've ever had (without the crony part). I'm all for making it better, or even replacing it, just not with something that has been tried before. Especially something that's been tried and failed many times, at the cost of millions of lives.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    I'd argue something better was there in the form of Socialist Yugoslavia - an economically successful country, with social freedoms and freedom of movement (only passport that was able to freely travel both blocks during the cold war!), greater economic self-determination than today's capitalist systems (all companies were worker-run coops, competing in the marketplace with leadership elected by workers). Unfortunately, ethnic strife and nationalism brought it to an end. I also think that line of reasoning ignores the opportunity cost of not trying - it's easy for us to condemn other systems for killing people when we are not part of the millions in the global south being killed by capitalism _right now_. Try telling a person living in the Congo, ravaged by warlords fighting for resources to sell on the marketplace, how capitalism is "the best system we've ever had" and see how they feel about it.
- imtringued 5y ago
  > I would argue that any form of capitalism devolves into "crony capitalism" sooner or later. It's an inherent feature of the system. I don't know what you mean by "the system" but land value taxes and negative interest rates would solve most of the problems. Of course the fact that something as obvious as land value taxes isn't universal and that economics don't even want to think about negative interest rates tells you that we are still far away from a practically realizable "utopia". Let's be serious. Land ownership is permanent in a world where almost everything else isn't. If you want a dynasty you buy things that can last generations. How does one value a perpetual asset like land? Everyone has a different time frame. Some may only consider the next 10 years of returns in their valuation of the land. Some may go as far as 100 years. As the total yield of the asset is potentially infinite, land becomes an increasingly speculative investment. Since shelter is a basic human need, these yields are obtained through coercion and simply diverted from the people who worked to earn their money. If the government collects that money it can then reduce indirect taxes that fund infrastructure and services that increase the value of the land and tax the recipient of the services directly. If you do not want those services then just move somewhere else.
SantalBlush 5y ago
>in the US at least, we only have crony capitalism. They're the same thing. You wouldn't distinguish communism from "crony communism," would you? Of course not; that would be absurd. Both systems create perverse incentives, and it is unproductive when everyone continues ignoring that fact.

iammisc 5y ago

> Would lower the rate of depression caused by loneliness / alienation too i think. depression is caused by the fact life today is too easy

imtringued 5y ago
You mean it's easy to withdraw from society. Just move to a small town, work at a gas station and watch netflix all day. It's easy.
- iammisc 5y ago
  No I mean that life is too easy. Depression is caused by feeling that our actions do not translate into consequences in our daily life. When we are unable to achieve anything by our own hands, we start to feel that life is out of control, and depression quickly sinks in. This is the most common form of depression today. One does not even need to move to a small town or work at a gas station. Most can just leech off parents.