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Some ovens are teflon coated, and some of those have cleaning modes that effectively kill of pet birds. I don't get how that can even be allowed ad a regular h

Some ovens are teflon coated, and some of those have cleaning modes that effectively kill of pet birds. I don't get how that can even be allowed ad a regular household appliance.

gruez 5y ago
> Some ovens are teflon coated, and some of those have cleaning modes that effectively kill of pet birds. it seems unlikely that they have both teflon coat it and a self-cleaning mode (800+F) that burns it off?
antasvara 5y ago
Alcohol kills humans in relatively small quantities as well, and it would certainly kill a bird with significantly less. Chocolate makes dogs incredibly sick as well, while not having the same effect on humans. This isn't to say that we shouldn't ban PFAS. They're proven to be dangerous to humans, and we should absolutely be concerned about long-term effects. It's just that "it kills a bird" isn't a justification for banning something. I'm under the impression that burned food and smoke isn't great for you either; it's possible that the trade-off between a dirty oven and increased PFAS exposure is acceptable. Ultimately it depends on the magnitude of the danger, and I don't know enough about airborne PFAS to know if it warrants a blanket ban on any products with Teflon.
- dataviz1000 5y ago
  Also, they use warfarin to treat stroke victims and rat poison. Because it is poisonous isn't reason to not use it in humans.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  >Chocolate makes dogs incredibly sick as well, while not having the same effect on humans. Few people know this, but the thing in chocolate that kills dogs, theobromine, acts as a caffeine-like stimulant in human beings but with a much longer half-life. Although human livers are much more able to deal with it than dogs, this could conceivably be causing human problems in people who often eat a lot of chocolate less than seven hours before bed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthine [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine >I don't know enough about airborne PFAS to know if it warrants a blanket ban on any products with Teflon. If you look at the CDC website, PFAS has a rap sheet a mile long. You should probably just clean your pans. If you can afford it, get a reverse osmosis system [3], they are very good at removing PFAS. [2] https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html [3] https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-water-treatment-technologies https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-wa...
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > this could conceivably be causing human problems in people who often eat a lot of chocolate less than seven hours before bed Well so will the actual caffeine. Still, "not having the same effect on humans" is pretty misleading. It's maybe 4x more potent in a dog. Body weight is a much bigger factor. Not many people are going to eat "one ounce of milk chocolate per pound of body weight" or the equivalent dose of darker chocolate.
    - poulpy123 5y ago
      Only because it's too expensive
      - ben_w 5y ago
        1 oz/lb is about 5kg for an adult male. The price isn’t the only reason you’re not going to eat that much.
    - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
      This of course varies by person. I am more or less immune to caffeine (in human concentrations), drinking all kind of coffees before going to bed (espresso, filtered, turkish, ...). I noticed several times that it had the opposite effect (putting me to sleep). My brother has the same.
  - gadders 5y ago
    Xylitol the artificial sweetener is another thing that is harmless in people but very bad for dogs. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/xylitol-toxicity-in-dogs https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/xylitol-toxicity-in-d...
    - m463 5y ago
      except: "Excessive consumption may induce laxative effects" I wonder about this. Is this a benign side effect, or the body's way of moving a troublesome substance out of the digestive system?
- noja 5y ago
  > It's just that "it kills a bird" isn't a justification for banning something. I don't know, it killing lots of things with lungs seems like a red flag to me. Perhaps it warrants switching the assumption "Teflon good (until proved harmful)" to "Teflon bad (until proven safe)".
  - lugged 5y ago
    It's already proven not to be safe. If you overheat a pan and breath it in you'll come down with flu like symptoms and nausea.
  - antasvara 5y ago
    I'd be open to that viewpoint. Assuming something to be bad based on an animal trial is generally how we approve medicines, so there's precedent for it. I will say that we should be wary of banning products based on potential long-term effects with unknown magnitude. Knowing where to draw that line is tough.
- tapland 5y ago
  I don't know of any household appliances that as part of their regular functioning doses you with alcohol. Or many household appliances that can reliably kill of your pets at all. So I don't really get this nitpick.
  - antasvara 5y ago
    The point is that quantities of alcohol that hurt/kill birds aren't illegal, because those quantities aren't dangerous enough to humans to warrant legal action. It's similar to how we don't accept animal trials as all the evidence required to approve a new drug. Some things kill animals and not humans. Some quantities of substances kill animals and not humans. Knowing that a product kills your bird is cause for investigation or concern, but not a reason for a blanket ban.
- Ginden 5y ago
  > Alcohol kills humans in relatively small quantities as well In absolute quantities it's less toxic than fructose, paracetamol or THC. It's among least toxic substances found in nature. Almost no one dies from acute toxicity of alcohol - almost all alcohol-related deaths are due to accidents and chronic toxicity (long term exposure to toxicant).
aeternum 5y ago
Dihydrogen monoxide kills 3.9k in the US every year and can kill pretty much every living thing if consumed in large enough quantities. It's crazy that we consume the stuff on a daily basis.
- tromp 5y ago
  I see wet you did there...
- mark-r 5y ago
  https://dhmo.org/ https://dhmo.org/

Some ovens are teflon coated, and some of those have cleaning modes that effectively kill of pet birds. I don't get how that can even be allowed ad a regular household appliance.

gruez 5y ago

> Some ovens are teflon coated, and some of those have cleaning modes that effectively kill of pet birds. it seems unlikely that they have both teflon coat it and a self-cleaning mode (800+F) that burns it off?

antasvara 5y ago

Alcohol kills humans in relatively small quantities as well, and it would certainly kill a bird with significantly less. Chocolate makes dogs incredibly sick as well, while not having the same effect on humans. This isn't to say that we shouldn't ban PFAS. They're proven to be dangerous to humans, and we should absolutely be concerned about long-term effects. It's just that "it kills a bird" isn't a justification for banning something. I'm under the impression that burned food and smoke isn't great for you either; it's possible that the trade-off between a dirty oven and increased PFAS exposure is acceptable. Ultimately it depends on the magnitude of the danger, and I don't know enough about airborne PFAS to know if it warrants a blanket ban on any products with Teflon.

dataviz1000 5y ago
Also, they use warfarin to treat stroke victims and rat poison. Because it is poisonous isn't reason to not use it in humans.
whatshisface 5y ago
>Chocolate makes dogs incredibly sick as well, while not having the same effect on humans. Few people know this, but the thing in chocolate that kills dogs, theobromine, acts as a caffeine-like stimulant in human beings but with a much longer half-life. Although human livers are much more able to deal with it than dogs, this could conceivably be causing human problems in people who often eat a lot of chocolate less than seven hours before bed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthine [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine >I don't know enough about airborne PFAS to know if it warrants a blanket ban on any products with Teflon. If you look at the CDC website, PFAS has a rap sheet a mile long. You should probably just clean your pans. If you can afford it, get a reverse osmosis system [3], they are very good at removing PFAS. [2] https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html [3] https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-water-treatment-technologies https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-wa...
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > this could conceivably be causing human problems in people who often eat a lot of chocolate less than seven hours before bed Well so will the actual caffeine. Still, "not having the same effect on humans" is pretty misleading. It's maybe 4x more potent in a dog. Body weight is a much bigger factor. Not many people are going to eat "one ounce of milk chocolate per pound of body weight" or the equivalent dose of darker chocolate.
  - poulpy123 5y ago
    Only because it's too expensive
    - ben_w 5y ago
      1 oz/lb is about 5kg for an adult male. The price isn’t the only reason you’re not going to eat that much.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    This of course varies by person. I am more or less immune to caffeine (in human concentrations), drinking all kind of coffees before going to bed (espresso, filtered, turkish, ...). I noticed several times that it had the opposite effect (putting me to sleep). My brother has the same.
- gadders 5y ago
  Xylitol the artificial sweetener is another thing that is harmless in people but very bad for dogs. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/xylitol-toxicity-in-dogs https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/xylitol-toxicity-in-d...
  - m463 5y ago
    except: "Excessive consumption may induce laxative effects" I wonder about this. Is this a benign side effect, or the body's way of moving a troublesome substance out of the digestive system?
noja 5y ago
> It's just that "it kills a bird" isn't a justification for banning something. I don't know, it killing lots of things with lungs seems like a red flag to me. Perhaps it warrants switching the assumption "Teflon good (until proved harmful)" to "Teflon bad (until proven safe)".
- lugged 5y ago
  It's already proven not to be safe. If you overheat a pan and breath it in you'll come down with flu like symptoms and nausea.
- antasvara 5y ago
  I'd be open to that viewpoint. Assuming something to be bad based on an animal trial is generally how we approve medicines, so there's precedent for it. I will say that we should be wary of banning products based on potential long-term effects with unknown magnitude. Knowing where to draw that line is tough.
tapland 5y ago
I don't know of any household appliances that as part of their regular functioning doses you with alcohol. Or many household appliances that can reliably kill of your pets at all. So I don't really get this nitpick.
- antasvara 5y ago
  The point is that quantities of alcohol that hurt/kill birds aren't illegal, because those quantities aren't dangerous enough to humans to warrant legal action. It's similar to how we don't accept animal trials as all the evidence required to approve a new drug. Some things kill animals and not humans. Some quantities of substances kill animals and not humans. Knowing that a product kills your bird is cause for investigation or concern, but not a reason for a blanket ban.
Ginden 5y ago
> Alcohol kills humans in relatively small quantities as well In absolute quantities it's less toxic than fructose, paracetamol or THC. It's among least toxic substances found in nature. Almost no one dies from acute toxicity of alcohol - almost all alcohol-related deaths are due to accidents and chronic toxicity (long term exposure to toxicant).

aeternum 5y ago

Dihydrogen monoxide kills 3.9k in the US every year and can kill pretty much every living thing if consumed in large enough quantities. It's crazy that we consume the stuff on a daily basis.

tromp 5y ago
I see wet you did there...
mark-r 5y ago
https://dhmo.org/ https://dhmo.org/