10 ms·

Walgreens closing 5 San Francisco stores due to 'organized retail crime'

97 points by andyxor 5y ago

zz865 5y ago
I'd think Amazon is a big influence too. Traditionally these pharmacies sell stuff a huge markups, its amazing how much cheaper OTC medicines and lotions are online. These big pharmacy chains are on borrowed time even without the shoplifting.
oliv__ 5y ago
> "This is a sad day for San Francisco," Safai said. "We can't continue to let these anchor institutions close that so many people rely on." This is the conclusion reached by that spokesperson? I guess the solution is to outlaw closing private stores in areas where they are needed. How outrageous that they should try to turn a profit there while the people need their goods /s Literally sounds like a chapter from Atlas Shrugged, except in real life
- faut_reflechir 5y ago
  It's not his most artful turn of phrase, but if you read the context of the remarks, I think Safai is saying "we can't continue to let them close" as in "we can't continue to allow these conditions which are forcing them to close," not as in "government should mandate that they stay open."
  - oliv__ 5y ago
    I sure hope you are right. The previous quote only mentions the "damage this will have on their community" so the focus seemed to be on the community's need here
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Maybe, but government has a history of forcing bad things on business.
nimos 5y ago
Surprised how far out those stores are - only the 300 Gough St one is really close to the Tenderloin.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  You want to be where the police aren't. A bank near me gets robbed a few times a year because the neighborhood is safe and isolated enough that the city mostly avoids stationing officers nearby.
  - lookalike74 5y ago
    How do they know that, are they exit polling the robbers?
- speedybird 5y ago
  The organized retail theft gangs have get-away cars (often nice ones.) They can drive to wherever the pickings are good.
rgergerger4 5y ago
In a few years we will be hearing about all the food deserts in San Francisco and how they stem from racism and white supremacy...
- woodruffw 5y ago
  It's pretty unlikely that Walgreens is included in the USDA's definition of a food desert. I believe the most nutritious things available for sale there are dry cereal and maybe bananas.
  - boulos 5y ago
    Depends on the Walgreens location. Some have effectively a little grocer inside (gallons of milk, some fruits and vegetables, pasta, bread, etc.).
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      I'm sure it varies by area, but in NYC I've never seen vegetables in a Walgreens (or DR, or Rite-Aid, &c.). They sometimes have milk and eggs, but it's usually the smaller packages (half a gallon or less / half a dozen respectively) and the dry goods that aren't cereal tend to be smaller or "instant" varieties (pouched rice and pasta is what I've seen). I think you'd struggle to healthfully feed an individual with just a Walgreens, much less a family.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  Historic racism -> Intergenerational poverty -> Crime -> Area divestment -> Food desert.
  - adventured 5y ago
    That's fascinating. I grew up in an area - Appalachia, specifically an area among the poorest regions east of the Mississippi - with entrenched forever poverty, and vast underinvestment in pretty much every way you could name. It never occurred to anyone to put together organized retail crime gangs and endlessly plunder local stores until they were all forced to close. What other excuses do you have?
themodelplumber 5y ago
> During this time to help combat this issue, we increased our investments in security measures in stores across the city to 46 times our chain average in an effort to provide a safe environment.” I wonder how they arrived at this number of 46x. 46x the chain average of single minutes spent reviewing security staff resumes? 46x the chain average of security camera photos sent to LEOs? 46x the average number of bic lighters placed further back? No, up more? No, up and back higher, like where you can't reach? No, they can really jump that high, so up higher?
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  I don't get it. Are you making a joke that's gone over my head? > our investments in security measures in stores Clearly this refers to their dollar expenditure on security measures, however that had been accounted.
- vnchr 5y ago
  Most Walgreens don’t have dedicated security guards. If these stores had guards working all operating hours (2-3 shifts per day, every day) and some stores might have employed multiple security guards, the multiple is there.
  - sammalloy 5y ago
    I want to add to your comment, that the problem with Walgreens security in SF is well known, far before the issues with the changes in the law took front and center. I actually had a conversation with a friend about how bad their security was back in 2007. The issue is purely one of store layout and design. They could easily fix that and solve most of the problem.
    - mikysco 5y ago
      I feel like criminals are also abundantly aware at this point they won't face prosecution from SF's DA, so feel agency to commit "minor" crimes like this with impunity. But most of the SF stores do have a very old-school layout.
zthrowaway 5y ago
Turns out defunding the police and not enforcing laws has consequences.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  San Francisco never defunded the police. (IIRC, voters passed a measure eliminating a mininum funding mandate, but the actual budget has increased.) The SFPD may choose not to enforce laws, but I don't think anyone outside of SFPD directed that, it's just organized nonfeasance as leadership political protest.
  - google234123 5y ago
    > organized nonfeasance as leadership political protest Nope, this is fake news. You should learn more about your DA Chesa Boudin. He rarely brings cases to trial, fired a bunch of prosecutors and 30 others have left, and removed cash bail which puts repeat offenders right back on the street after arrest.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      The police don't want to arrest criminals and fill out paperwork if the people they pick up aren't going to be held. That's a knock on effect of what you're describing.
      - xrd 5y ago
        I don't want to fill out TPF reports either but if that's a requirement of my job, shouldn't I do it?
        BobbyJo 5y ago
        Sure. And objectively the cops should keep arresting these people. Unfortunately people aren't robots, and morale is a thing.
bryan0 5y ago
Discussion from a few months ago when Target reduced SF store hours due to retail theft: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27718204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27718204
b9be520d93286 5y ago
[flagged]
zz865 5y ago
NYC is similar https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/nyc-man-leads-record-shattering-shoplifting-surge-with-46-arrests/ https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/nyc-man-leads-record-shatterin... > Rodriguez is finally in jail, but he rode the city’s revolving door of justice to allegedly rip off Walgreens 37 times this year. He was particularly partial to the drug store at 91-08 Roosevelt Ave. in Jackson Heights, which he hit 23 times, police said.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  The NY Post has an editorial incentive to hype up cases like this. Having lived in the city my entire life: I've never heard anything remotely similar to this. It's a bit like the guy who keeps trying to steal subway trains[1]: you can write a great breathless article about him, but there's still only one of him. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_McCollum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_McCollum
  - speedybird 5y ago
    Maybe this Rodriguez is the single guy in the city who decided to make crime a career. Or maybe he's the single guy the city permitted to get away with it for so long. No systemic problems, just one particular guy who is singled out for exceptionally tolerant treatment by the system.. for some reason. Probably not though. I bet there are dozens if not hundreds more like him.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      > I bet there are dozens if not hundreds more like him. To be clear: betting like this is baseless speculation. I'm telling you from lived experience that it just isn't that common here, especially when you factor in how dense and populous NYC is compared to SF. And it's probably not the case that he's "singled out" in any way (other than for reporting by the NYP). He's the "spiders Georg"[1] of shoplifting. There's always one! [1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/spiders-georg https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/spiders-georg
      - 5y ago
throwaway3776 5y ago
Throwaway, but I can assure you as an SF resident, most of us are more than happy to see Walgreens go. They pay and treat their employees terribly along with pushing junk food and other garbage to people just trying to fill a prescription. We are excited for quality, owner operated pharmacies to return and replace them. Just like they served us before Walgreens came in and muscled them all out of business. It’s almost as if not looking out for your community results in that community not looking out for you.
- ziml77 5y ago
  I've been to multiple Walgreens and none of them have pushed junk food on anyone. In fact, the most direct path from the entrance to the pharmacy hasn't even contained the food. That's always been on the opposite side of the store.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    Mine has a tower of Pringles, minimum.
- gruez 5y ago
  >We are excited for quality, owner operated pharmacies to return and replace them. Just like they served us before Walgreens came in and muscled them all out of business. What makes you think that the owner operated pharmacies won't be targeted by shoplifters? Are a significant chunk of the shoplifters doing it for ideological reasons? >It’s almost as if not looking out for your community results in that community not looking out for you. Sounds like victim blaming to me. The whole point of having laws and law enforcement is to have an official way to pay your dues to the community and get protection in return, rather than having to pay for "protection" from the community itself.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    > What makes you think that the owner operated pharmacies won't be targeted by shoplifters? Footage from the LA Riots.
zardo 5y ago
Walgreens is losing money and shutting down hundreds of stores nation wide.
- throwoutway 5y ago
  > During this time to help combat this issue, we increased our investments in security measures in stores across the city to 46 times our chain average in an effort to provide a safe environment.” From the article. This isn’t normal
xrd 5y ago
I wonder if there is some Marxist website somewhere celebrating this. These huge businesses like Walmart, Walgreens and Starbucks target and study successful mom and pop businesses and then move in ruthlessly. In Portland I've seen so many great local businesses destroyed because they couldn't compete with the large chains. And, if that eventually doesn't work out for the chain, they close up shop. Amazon and Walmart have destroyed small mom and pop grocery stores across the country. I bet these retail gangs wouldn't go after a mom and pop shop of any kind. The owner would probably fight them with their bare hands. That's why they are going after Walgreens. In some weird way, this feels like capitalism, actually. It's just a hidden facet we don't see often.
- DantesKite 5y ago
  > I bet these retail gangs wouldn't go after a mom and pop shop of any kind. The owner would probably fight them with their bare hands. That's why they are going after Walgreens. That's a big assumption...If elderly Asian people are being attacked on the streets, I don't think their moral code extends to mom and pop shops, even if they're willing to throw down, unless they bring out guns.
  - staticautomatic 5y ago
    Wait, what? You think it's retail gangs committing the anti-Asian violence? Based on what?

97 points by andyxor 5y ago

I'd think Amazon is a big influence too. Traditionally these pharmacies sell stuff a huge markups, its amazing how much cheaper OTC medicines and lotions are online. These big pharmacy chains are on borrowed time even without the shoplifting.

oliv__ 5y ago

> "This is a sad day for San Francisco," Safai said. "We can't continue to let these anchor institutions close that so many people rely on." This is the conclusion reached by that spokesperson? I guess the solution is to outlaw closing private stores in areas where they are needed. How outrageous that they should try to turn a profit there while the people need their goods /s Literally sounds like a chapter from Atlas Shrugged, except in real life

faut_reflechir 5y ago
It's not his most artful turn of phrase, but if you read the context of the remarks, I think Safai is saying "we can't continue to let them close" as in "we can't continue to allow these conditions which are forcing them to close," not as in "government should mandate that they stay open."
- oliv__ 5y ago
  I sure hope you are right. The previous quote only mentions the "damage this will have on their community" so the focus seemed to be on the community's need here
- bluGill 5y ago
  Maybe, but government has a history of forcing bad things on business.

nimos 5y ago

Surprised how far out those stores are - only the 300 Gough St one is really close to the Tenderloin.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
You want to be where the police aren't. A bank near me gets robbed a few times a year because the neighborhood is safe and isolated enough that the city mostly avoids stationing officers nearby.
- lookalike74 5y ago
  How do they know that, are they exit polling the robbers?
speedybird 5y ago
The organized retail theft gangs have get-away cars (often nice ones.) They can drive to wherever the pickings are good.

rgergerger4 5y ago

In a few years we will be hearing about all the food deserts in San Francisco and how they stem from racism and white supremacy...

woodruffw 5y ago
It's pretty unlikely that Walgreens is included in the USDA's definition of a food desert. I believe the most nutritious things available for sale there are dry cereal and maybe bananas.
- boulos 5y ago
  Depends on the Walgreens location. Some have effectively a little grocer inside (gallons of milk, some fruits and vegetables, pasta, bread, etc.).
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I'm sure it varies by area, but in NYC I've never seen vegetables in a Walgreens (or DR, or Rite-Aid, &c.). They sometimes have milk and eggs, but it's usually the smaller packages (half a gallon or less / half a dozen respectively) and the dry goods that aren't cereal tend to be smaller or "instant" varieties (pouched rice and pasta is what I've seen). I think you'd struggle to healthfully feed an individual with just a Walgreens, much less a family.
BobbyJo 5y ago
Historic racism -> Intergenerational poverty -> Crime -> Area divestment -> Food desert.
- adventured 5y ago
  That's fascinating. I grew up in an area - Appalachia, specifically an area among the poorest regions east of the Mississippi - with entrenched forever poverty, and vast underinvestment in pretty much every way you could name. It never occurred to anyone to put together organized retail crime gangs and endlessly plunder local stores until they were all forced to close. What other excuses do you have?

themodelplumber 5y ago

> During this time to help combat this issue, we increased our investments in security measures in stores across the city to 46 times our chain average in an effort to provide a safe environment.” I wonder how they arrived at this number of 46x. 46x the chain average of single minutes spent reviewing security staff resumes? 46x the chain average of security camera photos sent to LEOs? 46x the average number of bic lighters placed further back? No, up more? No, up and back higher, like where you can't reach? No, they can really jump that high, so up higher?

throwawaylinux 5y ago
I don't get it. Are you making a joke that's gone over my head? > our investments in security measures in stores Clearly this refers to their dollar expenditure on security measures, however that had been accounted.
vnchr 5y ago
Most Walgreens don’t have dedicated security guards. If these stores had guards working all operating hours (2-3 shifts per day, every day) and some stores might have employed multiple security guards, the multiple is there.
- sammalloy 5y ago
  I want to add to your comment, that the problem with Walgreens security in SF is well known, far before the issues with the changes in the law took front and center. I actually had a conversation with a friend about how bad their security was back in 2007. The issue is purely one of store layout and design. They could easily fix that and solve most of the problem.
  - mikysco 5y ago
    I feel like criminals are also abundantly aware at this point they won't face prosecution from SF's DA, so feel agency to commit "minor" crimes like this with impunity. But most of the SF stores do have a very old-school layout.

zthrowaway 5y ago

Turns out defunding the police and not enforcing laws has consequences.

dragonwriter 5y ago
San Francisco never defunded the police. (IIRC, voters passed a measure eliminating a mininum funding mandate, but the actual budget has increased.) The SFPD may choose not to enforce laws, but I don't think anyone outside of SFPD directed that, it's just organized nonfeasance as leadership political protest.
- google234123 5y ago
  > organized nonfeasance as leadership political protest Nope, this is fake news. You should learn more about your DA Chesa Boudin. He rarely brings cases to trial, fired a bunch of prosecutors and 30 others have left, and removed cash bail which puts repeat offenders right back on the street after arrest.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    The police don't want to arrest criminals and fill out paperwork if the people they pick up aren't going to be held. That's a knock on effect of what you're describing.
    - xrd 5y ago
      I don't want to fill out TPF reports either but if that's a requirement of my job, shouldn't I do it?
      - BobbyJo 5y ago
        Sure. And objectively the cops should keep arresting these people. Unfortunately people aren't robots, and morale is a thing.

bryan0 5y ago

Discussion from a few months ago when Target reduced SF store hours due to retail theft: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27718204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27718204

b9be520d93286 5y ago

[flagged]

zz865 5y ago

NYC is similar https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/nyc-man-leads-record-shattering-shoplifting-surge-with-46-arrests/ https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/nyc-man-leads-record-shatterin... > Rodriguez is finally in jail, but he rode the city’s revolving door of justice to allegedly rip off Walgreens 37 times this year. He was particularly partial to the drug store at 91-08 Roosevelt Ave. in Jackson Heights, which he hit 23 times, police said.

woodruffw 5y ago
The NY Post has an editorial incentive to hype up cases like this. Having lived in the city my entire life: I've never heard anything remotely similar to this. It's a bit like the guy who keeps trying to steal subway trains[1]: you can write a great breathless article about him, but there's still only one of him. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_McCollum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_McCollum
- speedybird 5y ago
  Maybe this Rodriguez is the single guy in the city who decided to make crime a career. Or maybe he's the single guy the city permitted to get away with it for so long. No systemic problems, just one particular guy who is singled out for exceptionally tolerant treatment by the system.. for some reason. Probably not though. I bet there are dozens if not hundreds more like him.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    > I bet there are dozens if not hundreds more like him. To be clear: betting like this is baseless speculation. I'm telling you from lived experience that it just isn't that common here, especially when you factor in how dense and populous NYC is compared to SF. And it's probably not the case that he's "singled out" in any way (other than for reporting by the NYP). He's the "spiders Georg"[1] of shoplifting. There's always one! [1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/spiders-georg https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/spiders-georg
    - 5y ago

throwaway3776 5y ago

Throwaway, but I can assure you as an SF resident, most of us are more than happy to see Walgreens go. They pay and treat their employees terribly along with pushing junk food and other garbage to people just trying to fill a prescription. We are excited for quality, owner operated pharmacies to return and replace them. Just like they served us before Walgreens came in and muscled them all out of business. It’s almost as if not looking out for your community results in that community not looking out for you.

ziml77 5y ago
I've been to multiple Walgreens and none of them have pushed junk food on anyone. In fact, the most direct path from the entrance to the pharmacy hasn't even contained the food. That's always been on the opposite side of the store.
- atatatat 5y ago
  Mine has a tower of Pringles, minimum.
gruez 5y ago
>We are excited for quality, owner operated pharmacies to return and replace them. Just like they served us before Walgreens came in and muscled them all out of business. What makes you think that the owner operated pharmacies won't be targeted by shoplifters? Are a significant chunk of the shoplifters doing it for ideological reasons? >It’s almost as if not looking out for your community results in that community not looking out for you. Sounds like victim blaming to me. The whole point of having laws and law enforcement is to have an official way to pay your dues to the community and get protection in return, rather than having to pay for "protection" from the community itself.
- atatatat 5y ago
  > What makes you think that the owner operated pharmacies won't be targeted by shoplifters? Footage from the LA Riots.

zardo 5y ago

Walgreens is losing money and shutting down hundreds of stores nation wide.

throwoutway 5y ago
> During this time to help combat this issue, we increased our investments in security measures in stores across the city to 46 times our chain average in an effort to provide a safe environment.” From the article. This isn’t normal

xrd 5y ago

I wonder if there is some Marxist website somewhere celebrating this. These huge businesses like Walmart, Walgreens and Starbucks target and study successful mom and pop businesses and then move in ruthlessly. In Portland I've seen so many great local businesses destroyed because they couldn't compete with the large chains. And, if that eventually doesn't work out for the chain, they close up shop. Amazon and Walmart have destroyed small mom and pop grocery stores across the country. I bet these retail gangs wouldn't go after a mom and pop shop of any kind. The owner would probably fight them with their bare hands. That's why they are going after Walgreens. In some weird way, this feels like capitalism, actually. It's just a hidden facet we don't see often.

DantesKite 5y ago
> I bet these retail gangs wouldn't go after a mom and pop shop of any kind. The owner would probably fight them with their bare hands. That's why they are going after Walgreens. That's a big assumption...If elderly Asian people are being attacked on the streets, I don't think their moral code extends to mom and pop shops, even if they're willing to throw down, unless they bring out guns.
- staticautomatic 5y ago
  Wait, what? You think it's retail gangs committing the anti-Asian violence? Based on what?