5 ms·

Rule #1: Don't talk to the police. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik You're better off taking the beating.

by Duff 15y ago

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
And it's not "Don't talk to the police if you have nothing to hide". Unfortunately, you are always better off to not talk to the police.
- eru 15y ago
  In America. I wonder about the situation in other legal systems.
baddox 15y ago
Something I've never understood from one example from that talk: If it's your word in court vs. the police officer's regarding an unrecorded conversation, how exactly does not talking help you? In the example (linked below), the police officer lied in court, saying that the defendant admitted to placing a hand on the plaintiff when the officer first approached the defendant. How does being silent help you in that example? The officer could still lie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=player_detailpage#t=286s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=playe...
- lukesandberg 15y ago
  I don't think much can help you if you are dealing with an officer who is willing to lie and falsify evidence in order to convict you. But the key detail is that its much more likely that an officer (or any person) will misremember something you said or take it out of context if you actually said anything at all. By not talking you prevent this problem entirely because no one will accidentally forget or take out of context that fact that you never said anything at all.
- Duff 15y ago
  "Lie" in the eye of the beholder. To the cop, stating that you touched someone means that you've opened the door -- it's a thread connecting your story to the plaintiff's. Since you are probably not routinely interrogated, your body language may reinforce that thought process as well.
  - baddox 15y ago
    In the example, the cop testifies that when he first approached the defendant, the defendant admitted to placing his hand on the plaintiff's throat, but only as a joke. The defendant claimed that he never said anything of the sort to the cop. It was the cop's and plaintiff's word against the defendant's word, and the defendant was found guilty. How would it have helped if the defendant had said nothing to the cop? The cop lied about him talking. To me, the words of a cop and a plaintiff are "reasonably doubtful," but I guess not. Anyway, my point is that in this example, the cop lied about what the defendant said.
    - StavrosK 15y ago
      It's harder for the officer to lie and say that you said something when you refused to say anything. It's easier to just "slip" something in a conversation if you're talking to him in the first place.
      - baddox 15y ago
        How so? If your interaction with the cop wasn't recorded, even if you started out by saying "I choose to remain silent" and never said another word, the cop can easily testify that you said something. I don't see how it's "easier" to change an actual conversation than it is to completely fabricate one.
        StavrosK 15y ago
        > I don't see how it's "easier" to change an actual conversation than it is to completely fabricate one. It's easier because, when you fabricate an entire conversation rather than one sentence, you have to make up more things. That's the purely technical argument. There are also psychological considerations on the part of the officer, people are more likely to rationalize making up one little thing than making up an entire conversation.
- spodek 15y ago
  "how exactly does not talking help you?" You still communicate. You speak through your lawyer.
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    If you're extra paranoid just print out a card that says "as a policy I do not speak to the police except through a lawyer". Then you can present it to the police as necessary and use it as evidence if they attempt to claim you confessed something to them without a lawyer present.
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      Be _very_ careful pulling out your card. Not responding verbally and reaching into your pocket might get your killed if the cop thinks he sees you reaching for a gun.
    - roel_v 15y ago
      There is no difference between saying that and having it on a card. Plus if it's on a card it's going to have been taken away from you when you were booked, or you may not be allowed to take it, or whatever. Or it may be used against you in another way, as most physical things are. Just repeat the same sentence and don't try to out-smart police and prosecutors with technical tricks. (from reading discussions like this one on computer-oriented websites I have come to believe that nerds are especially easy to frame by a police man who recognizes a nerds innate desire to outsmart others, and to show it off. Look at where it got Hans Reiser).
      - tspiteri 15y ago
        (from reading discussions like this one on computer-oriented websites I have come to believe that nerds are especially easy to frame by a police man who recognizes a nerds innate desire to outsmart others, and to show it off. Look at where it got Hans Reiser). I though framing someone means making it look like they did something when they didn't. As far as I know, Hans Reiser showed the police where he buried the body; how can you say he was framed?
- joe_the_user 15y ago
  Even if you are dealing with someone willing to lie about the situation, not talking helps you a lot because it gives them less material to work with. If they have to make something up whole-cloth, there's a higher chance that they'll make something up that couldn't possibly have happened. If they have your description of what really happened, they only have to alter a few details.
- j_baker 15y ago
  How does not being silent help you? Talking to them provides no benefit to you and gives the police opportunity to make you slip up. There's no upside to talking to the police and a lot of potential drawbacks.
mahyarm 15y ago
But don't take it to the extreme. Do talk a little bit 'What is the problem officer', 'Do you know why I pulled you over? -- No", "Am I free to go?" when it takes longer than it should and a little politeness can go a long way when your pulled over for a minor ticket. Shut up in all other situations, detainment, questioning, asking to search and especially once your arrested.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Especially shut up in traffic stops. Police rely very heavily on confessions in such situations, and don't appreciate lying. Even if you think you're telling the truth, they won't (that is why they pulled you over..). Saying anything except answering their queries with carefully constructed responses will either incriminate you or make them mad. "Do you now how fast you were going?" "What do you have me as officer?" "15 over, but since you were wearing your seatbelt I'll let you off with a warning" The number of times I have directly participated in this exchange or been present for it is rather impressive (flyover country, long stretches of straight roads limited to 60mph...). Be polite, but do not admit to a thing.
  - mahyarm 15y ago
    Being completely silent from the start is really weird and doesn't really get you anywhere, which people can get the impression of in the video.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      A simple "Evening officer" is perfectly ok. If you continue with "..what seems to be the problem?" then you are getting into iffy territory though. Let them tell you that there seems to be a problem.
      - mahyarm 15y ago
        So you've had an officer walk up to you, you said hello and then you said absolutely nothing at all in return afterwards? Your mouth didn't open one bit? How did that go?
tzs 15y ago
You are standing at the end of the block. You hear a woman scream "help! he's taking my baby!", and look up to see two men push a woman violently to the ground, snatch a baby from a stroller, jump into a car, and drive up the street in your direction. They reach the intersection, where you get a good look at the men as they turn the corner. The drive halfway down the block, and turn into a driveway, pull into the garage at that house, and close the garage door, and then come out with the baby, and get into a car that was waiting in the driveway, and leave nonchalantly. You recognize the make and model of the car and are even able to read the license plate and memorize it. You are the only witness to this part of their getaway. The police quickly come, and ask you if you saw them men and were they went. Are you REALLY going to say nothing? Or tell them you won't say anything without your lawyer present?
- generalk 15y ago
  Did you watch the video? Most of the time you'll talk to the police and tell them everything you saw and that's that. It's not likely the police will target you, but that's cold comfort if you somehow end up on the wrong end of a police investigation, which is the point of the video. You sound smart, what are possible alternatives here? Call in an anonymous tip maybe, or describe exactly what you saw, then refuse further communication without counsel present.
- Duff 15y ago
  In that scenario, you have a moral and legal obligation to report the crime. So you meet that obligation by giving the appropriate authorities the information they need, then leave.
- furyg3 15y ago
  Reporting a crime is a bit different than being questioned for one, but the point still stands that by talking to a police officer you are potentially risking a lot, and should take the situation very seriously. "Which direction did they go?!?" "Which house is on fire?!" "Does he have a gun?!" are very different questions (with different moral obligations) than "What are you doing in this neighborhood so late at night?" "Do you live around here?" "Is this your car?" Non-urgent questions and statements should be given in the presence of an attorney, recorded, and preferably on the condition of immunity :)

Rule #1: Don't talk to the police. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik You're better off taking the beating.

by Duff 15y ago

Rule #1: Don't talk to the police. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik You're better off taking the beating.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago

And it's not "Don't talk to the police if you have nothing to hide". Unfortunately, you are always better off to not talk to the police.

eru 15y ago
In America. I wonder about the situation in other legal systems.

baddox 15y ago

Something I've never understood from one example from that talk: If it's your word in court vs. the police officer's regarding an unrecorded conversation, how exactly does not talking help you? In the example (linked below), the police officer lied in court, saying that the defendant admitted to placing a hand on the plaintiff when the officer first approached the defendant. How does being silent help you in that example? The officer could still lie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=player_detailpage#t=286s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=playe...

lukesandberg 15y ago
I don't think much can help you if you are dealing with an officer who is willing to lie and falsify evidence in order to convict you. But the key detail is that its much more likely that an officer (or any person) will misremember something you said or take it out of context if you actually said anything at all. By not talking you prevent this problem entirely because no one will accidentally forget or take out of context that fact that you never said anything at all.
Duff 15y ago
"Lie" in the eye of the beholder. To the cop, stating that you touched someone means that you've opened the door -- it's a thread connecting your story to the plaintiff's. Since you are probably not routinely interrogated, your body language may reinforce that thought process as well.
- baddox 15y ago
  In the example, the cop testifies that when he first approached the defendant, the defendant admitted to placing his hand on the plaintiff's throat, but only as a joke. The defendant claimed that he never said anything of the sort to the cop. It was the cop's and plaintiff's word against the defendant's word, and the defendant was found guilty. How would it have helped if the defendant had said nothing to the cop? The cop lied about him talking. To me, the words of a cop and a plaintiff are "reasonably doubtful," but I guess not. Anyway, my point is that in this example, the cop lied about what the defendant said.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    It's harder for the officer to lie and say that you said something when you refused to say anything. It's easier to just "slip" something in a conversation if you're talking to him in the first place.
    - baddox 15y ago
      How so? If your interaction with the cop wasn't recorded, even if you started out by saying "I choose to remain silent" and never said another word, the cop can easily testify that you said something. I don't see how it's "easier" to change an actual conversation than it is to completely fabricate one.
      - StavrosK 15y ago
        > I don't see how it's "easier" to change an actual conversation than it is to completely fabricate one. It's easier because, when you fabricate an entire conversation rather than one sentence, you have to make up more things. That's the purely technical argument. There are also psychological considerations on the part of the officer, people are more likely to rationalize making up one little thing than making up an entire conversation.
spodek 15y ago
"how exactly does not talking help you?" You still communicate. You speak through your lawyer.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  If you're extra paranoid just print out a card that says "as a policy I do not speak to the police except through a lawyer". Then you can present it to the police as necessary and use it as evidence if they attempt to claim you confessed something to them without a lawyer present.
  - rdtsc 15y ago
    Be _very_ careful pulling out your card. Not responding verbally and reaching into your pocket might get your killed if the cop thinks he sees you reaching for a gun.
  - roel_v 15y ago
    There is no difference between saying that and having it on a card. Plus if it's on a card it's going to have been taken away from you when you were booked, or you may not be allowed to take it, or whatever. Or it may be used against you in another way, as most physical things are. Just repeat the same sentence and don't try to out-smart police and prosecutors with technical tricks. (from reading discussions like this one on computer-oriented websites I have come to believe that nerds are especially easy to frame by a police man who recognizes a nerds innate desire to outsmart others, and to show it off. Look at where it got Hans Reiser).
    - tspiteri 15y ago
      (from reading discussions like this one on computer-oriented websites I have come to believe that nerds are especially easy to frame by a police man who recognizes a nerds innate desire to outsmart others, and to show it off. Look at where it got Hans Reiser). I though framing someone means making it look like they did something when they didn't. As far as I know, Hans Reiser showed the police where he buried the body; how can you say he was framed?
joe_the_user 15y ago
Even if you are dealing with someone willing to lie about the situation, not talking helps you a lot because it gives them less material to work with. If they have to make something up whole-cloth, there's a higher chance that they'll make something up that couldn't possibly have happened. If they have your description of what really happened, they only have to alter a few details.
j_baker 15y ago
How does not being silent help you? Talking to them provides no benefit to you and gives the police opportunity to make you slip up. There's no upside to talking to the police and a lot of potential drawbacks.

mahyarm 15y ago

But don't take it to the extreme. Do talk a little bit 'What is the problem officer', 'Do you know why I pulled you over? -- No", "Am I free to go?" when it takes longer than it should and a little politeness can go a long way when your pulled over for a minor ticket. Shut up in all other situations, detainment, questioning, asking to search and especially once your arrested.

burgerbrain 15y ago
Especially shut up in traffic stops. Police rely very heavily on confessions in such situations, and don't appreciate lying. Even if you think you're telling the truth, they won't (that is why they pulled you over..). Saying anything except answering their queries with carefully constructed responses will either incriminate you or make them mad. "Do you now how fast you were going?" "What do you have me as officer?" "15 over, but since you were wearing your seatbelt I'll let you off with a warning" The number of times I have directly participated in this exchange or been present for it is rather impressive (flyover country, long stretches of straight roads limited to 60mph...). Be polite, but do not admit to a thing.
- mahyarm 15y ago
  Being completely silent from the start is really weird and doesn't really get you anywhere, which people can get the impression of in the video.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    A simple "Evening officer" is perfectly ok. If you continue with "..what seems to be the problem?" then you are getting into iffy territory though. Let them tell you that there seems to be a problem.
    - mahyarm 15y ago
      So you've had an officer walk up to you, you said hello and then you said absolutely nothing at all in return afterwards? Your mouth didn't open one bit? How did that go?

tzs 15y ago

You are standing at the end of the block. You hear a woman scream "help! he's taking my baby!", and look up to see two men push a woman violently to the ground, snatch a baby from a stroller, jump into a car, and drive up the street in your direction. They reach the intersection, where you get a good look at the men as they turn the corner. The drive halfway down the block, and turn into a driveway, pull into the garage at that house, and close the garage door, and then come out with the baby, and get into a car that was waiting in the driveway, and leave nonchalantly. You recognize the make and model of the car and are even able to read the license plate and memorize it. You are the only witness to this part of their getaway. The police quickly come, and ask you if you saw them men and were they went. Are you REALLY going to say nothing? Or tell them you won't say anything without your lawyer present?

generalk 15y ago
Did you watch the video? Most of the time you'll talk to the police and tell them everything you saw and that's that. It's not likely the police will target you, but that's cold comfort if you somehow end up on the wrong end of a police investigation, which is the point of the video. You sound smart, what are possible alternatives here? Call in an anonymous tip maybe, or describe exactly what you saw, then refuse further communication without counsel present.
Duff 15y ago
In that scenario, you have a moral and legal obligation to report the crime. So you meet that obligation by giving the appropriate authorities the information they need, then leave.
furyg3 15y ago
Reporting a crime is a bit different than being questioned for one, but the point still stands that by talking to a police officer you are potentially risking a lot, and should take the situation very seriously. "Which direction did they go?!?" "Which house is on fire?!" "Does he have a gun?!" are very different questions (with different moral obligations) than "What are you doing in this neighborhood so late at night?" "Do you live around here?" "Is this your car?" Non-urgent questions and statements should be given in the presence of an attorney, recorded, and preferably on the condition of immunity :)