4 ms·

hm... Half of the Organizations in the "Hate: category seem to be based in Germany. Almost all of the Organizations in the "Terror" category seem to be Islami

hm... Half of the Organizations in the "Hate: category seem to be based in Germany. Almost all of the Organizations in the "Terror" category seem to be Islamic. In the category "Crime" Brazil is overly represented. There seem to be a shocking amount of "Armed Militia Groups". I was surprised to find that "A.K. Chesterton" is affiliated with the "British Union of Fascists" ?? Is that correct? I seemed to be confusing "G.K. Chesterton" with "A.K. Chesterton" pfffffiew...

raxxorrax 5y ago
As a German this is quite embarrassing, it seamlessly connects to bad legislation for anything digital. A free internet could never have been developed in a country like Germany. There are probably some very indicting statistics on some sites that have an international audience but 80% of complaints still come from Germans.
detaro 5y ago
Likely matches what the respective countries or organizations there put pressure on Facebook for, or which pose a legal problem for Facebook there. E.g. lots of German neonazi stuff in the hate category.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Nazism is illegal in Germany. Militias are constitutionally protected in the USA, so there's not really a legal argument for all of those to be included.
  - detaro 5y ago
    you'll note that legal arguments are only one of the things I listed. (And as far as I understand, the situation around private militias is far less legally obvious than you state it, and I don't think any of the militias of the states is listed)
  - nl 5y ago
    > Militias are constitutionally protected in the USA Not private militias! In-fact, they are banned by all 50 states: https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militias-legal https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militia...
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  germany has a law called "social network enforcement act" which requires big social media networks to have a german speaking team that enforces national laws and effectively handles complaints. And germany has outlawed national-socialist ideology for obvious reasons. I am honestly surprised that style of enforcement isn't more common internationally. (edit: got a detail wrong: the team does not need to physically be in germany, but facebooks is)
  - chuckee 5y ago
    I don't know if you're aware, but that law (known as NetzDG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act) does a lot more than what you described. It requires social networks to delete "obviously illegal" posts within 24 hours of receiving a complaint, or face a €5 million fine per offense. What social network will risk such a fine to keep a single post? > I am honestly surprised that style of enforcement isn't more common internationally. Probably because the NetzDG considered incompatible with both the German constitution and the European Convention of Human Rights (but the European Commission illegally does not allow access to their legal assessment regarding that law), and is opposed by many human rights groups, including Reporters Without Borders and the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression.
    - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
      It also includes regular performance reports, which are likely evaluated by the government, but are mostly for self-auditing. Leaks like the recent "FB knew and didn't care at scale" are €5M fine offenses. Neglect to delete individual posts however are not. oh i am not at all in favor of that law! I am just wondering that this style of pressuring FB to have a team of censors trained in regional language and law (else 5M fine!) isn't more common. I kind of expect Hungary, Turkey, Russia and the Saudis among many others to demand that as well and file long lists of censorship topics, but they are underrepresented on the list we see here. At least Russia and Turkey are currently fining Facebook for non-compliance.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Yes, although for that a list such as this is merely a helper - e.g. it's not like any mention of or even praise for e.g. the neonazi bands is illegal. NetzDG is an incredibly crude, bad law, because it basically forces sites to be overly cautious, is even harder to comply with for small sites, ... - not really what we want, even if you generally think Facebook should ban such things. (And Twitter and Facebook have also gotten in trouble with German courts for "unfair" banning at the same time)
nitwit005 5y ago
The whole effort to remove hate speech is due to governments demanding they do so (sometimes with stiff penalties). You're just seeing a reflection of what government legal pressure they face.
petre 5y ago
> Almost all of the Organizations in the "Terror" category seem to be Islamic. Would you rather they put Navalny on the terror list? He was recently classified as a "terrorist" by the Russian prison authority. The list pretty much reflects US views, so I'm not that surprised. https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-prison-changed-navalnys-status-to-extremist-and-terrorist/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-prison-changed-naval...
Turing_Machine 5y ago
According to Wikipedia, A.K. Chesterton was G.K. Chesterton's cousin, and was indeed a member of the British Union of Fascists between 1933 and 1938.
tamaharbor 5y ago
That’s where stereotypes come from.

raxxorrax 5y ago

As a German this is quite embarrassing, it seamlessly connects to bad legislation for anything digital. A free internet could never have been developed in a country like Germany. There are probably some very indicting statistics on some sites that have an international audience but 80% of complaints still come from Germans.

detaro 5y ago

Likely matches what the respective countries or organizations there put pressure on Facebook for, or which pose a legal problem for Facebook there. E.g. lots of German neonazi stuff in the hate category.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Nazism is illegal in Germany. Militias are constitutionally protected in the USA, so there's not really a legal argument for all of those to be included.
- detaro 5y ago
  you'll note that legal arguments are only one of the things I listed. (And as far as I understand, the situation around private militias is far less legally obvious than you state it, and I don't think any of the militias of the states is listed)
- nl 5y ago
  > Militias are constitutionally protected in the USA Not private militias! In-fact, they are banned by all 50 states: https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militias-legal https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militia...
Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
germany has a law called "social network enforcement act" which requires big social media networks to have a german speaking team that enforces national laws and effectively handles complaints. And germany has outlawed national-socialist ideology for obvious reasons. I am honestly surprised that style of enforcement isn't more common internationally. (edit: got a detail wrong: the team does not need to physically be in germany, but facebooks is)
- chuckee 5y ago
  I don't know if you're aware, but that law (known as NetzDG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act) does a lot more than what you described. It requires social networks to delete "obviously illegal" posts within 24 hours of receiving a complaint, or face a €5 million fine per offense. What social network will risk such a fine to keep a single post? > I am honestly surprised that style of enforcement isn't more common internationally. Probably because the NetzDG considered incompatible with both the German constitution and the European Convention of Human Rights (but the European Commission illegally does not allow access to their legal assessment regarding that law), and is opposed by many human rights groups, including Reporters Without Borders and the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression.
  - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
    It also includes regular performance reports, which are likely evaluated by the government, but are mostly for self-auditing. Leaks like the recent "FB knew and didn't care at scale" are €5M fine offenses. Neglect to delete individual posts however are not. oh i am not at all in favor of that law! I am just wondering that this style of pressuring FB to have a team of censors trained in regional language and law (else 5M fine!) isn't more common. I kind of expect Hungary, Turkey, Russia and the Saudis among many others to demand that as well and file long lists of censorship topics, but they are underrepresented on the list we see here. At least Russia and Turkey are currently fining Facebook for non-compliance.
- detaro 5y ago
  Yes, although for that a list such as this is merely a helper - e.g. it's not like any mention of or even praise for e.g. the neonazi bands is illegal. NetzDG is an incredibly crude, bad law, because it basically forces sites to be overly cautious, is even harder to comply with for small sites, ... - not really what we want, even if you generally think Facebook should ban such things. (And Twitter and Facebook have also gotten in trouble with German courts for "unfair" banning at the same time)

nitwit005 5y ago

The whole effort to remove hate speech is due to governments demanding they do so (sometimes with stiff penalties). You're just seeing a reflection of what government legal pressure they face.

petre 5y ago

> Almost all of the Organizations in the "Terror" category seem to be Islamic. Would you rather they put Navalny on the terror list? He was recently classified as a "terrorist" by the Russian prison authority. The list pretty much reflects US views, so I'm not that surprised. https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-prison-changed-navalnys-status-to-extremist-and-terrorist/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-prison-changed-naval...

Turing_Machine 5y ago

According to Wikipedia, A.K. Chesterton was G.K. Chesterton's cousin, and was indeed a member of the British Union of Fascists between 1933 and 1938.

tamaharbor 5y ago

That’s where stereotypes come from.