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Unpopular opinion - I use speakers on my bicycle. I used to have a lot of problems with pedestrians not noticing me and even other bikers that were fixed by usi

Unpopular opinion - I use speakers on my bicycle. I used to have a lot of problems with pedestrians not noticing me and even other bikers that were fixed by using my phone's speakers at the 80% settings and playing music on them. Think of it as my own version of the noise emitting devices on EVs. On the one hand I kind of feel like a dick but on the other hand I still make much less noise than a car and there's no other way of people knowing I'm there when they don't have LOS.

ericd 5y ago
Why not use a bike bell instead? Also, why do pedestrians need to notice you?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  A bike bell is not going to work, I don't see them. If I saw them I could always talk to them. Pedestrians need to notice me because a lot of people walk on bike paths and because a lot of people jaywalk. Since I'm much closer to the parked cars and much smaller than cars they're going to realize there's no cars, think it's all clear, and when they advance I'll be there. It happened to me often. It's not loud enough that people on the sidewalk will hear me clearly - in traffic I often can't even distinguish my own music - but people that are on my way or about to walk in front of me will notice and that's good enough. Also in my city when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk, so I like to be noticed by pedestrians so they know I'm here without ringing my bike bell non-stop or speaking to everyone and trying to get them to notice me.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Your behavior is not that different from asshole car drivers that think they own the street and are aggressive towards cyclists. It is on you to ride defensively and make sure you are on an appropriate speed to avoid accidents with pedestrians, not on them to avoid you. > when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk So, get off the bike and walk.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      It's not possible to ride defensively against a person popping out of a car. There is also no safe speed which is reasonable for actually using the road where this doesn't happen. I'm also not going to slow down to 12km/h on protected bike paths because people want to walk there. I think being noticed is part of driving defensively in those situations. >So, get off the bike and walk I am not supposed to and I frankly just don't have the time to walk every time there is an underpass, and there are 6 on the way to my university. I think I'm very different from those car drivers because I'm not endangering or pushing away anyone, or being aggressive.
      - hammyhavoc 5y ago
        So people who "don't have time" and jaywalk = bad, but cyclists who "don't have time" and don't do what is expected of them = good. Hmm.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        What do you mean? I am doing exactly what is expected of me. I am allowed to cycle on sidewalks when it's an underpass, that's the law in my city, because many cyclists were killed. There are even signs on the entrance of every underpass where there is no protected bike lane indicating that bicycles should go on the sidewalks. I haven't made any judgments of value, mind you. I'm just saying that this is the only way I have of averting this issue.
        rglullis 5y ago
        "Bicycles going on sidewalks" != "supposed to cycle along pedestrians"
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That's the compromise in my city. I am allowed and expected to cycle in the sidewalk along an underpass. That means inevitably that I'm going to pass pedestrians. There are signs before warning pedestrians that there will be cyclists, but many seem not to get the memo.
  - skoskie 5y ago
    Bike bells work really well. It drives me nuts when bikes ride up on me and make zero effort to ring the bell right there on their handle. If they did this, I would be out of the way by the time they got to me. I have no problem jumping out of the way.
  - ericd 5y ago
    Thanks for explaining, I’ve always wondered why so many people seem to use boom boxes on bikes. I wonder if there’s some happy medium - some noise that the bike could make periodically that’s less annoying than blaring music, but also doesn’t require you to actively initiate it.
    - goguy 5y ago
      Is it really that annoying? Appreciate someone sat in a park blasting music could be, it's generally stationary for a long period of time. With a bike travelling at say ~10mph the noise is out of earshot in a few seconds.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
That’s actually a good idea. Music is out of the question for my preference, but some sort of noticeable but ignorable white noise like generated by EVs would work well. Electric bikes have almost gotten me more than a couple times, they are way too quiet and just sneak up on you.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I think the biggest issue with white noise is that bikes don't have cabin isolation. If you're trying to make white noise that people can hear through traffic ~5m away from you, it's going to be really loud to the rider! Music has that problem too, but it's easier to bear or even enjoy, and you can tune it out more easily than white noise. I certainly agree that ebikes can sneak up on you. Personally though, I would give up riding a bike if I had to use a fairly loud white noise generator. Nature sounds would be good for humans, but they might be disruptive to the fauna. Perhaps there's something that can be done about that though.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    All the EVs I’ve encountered with white noise output have been quite reasonable. At the lower spectrum, it is only audible a few meters away, and you can tune it out easily once you realize what it is. Whether phone speakers are good enough to replicate that experience, however, I’m not sure.
lhorie 5y ago
As someone who dislikes boomboxes in public, I have to say bikes are the one place where I think playing loud(ish) music makes sense. Unlike cars, bikes are very quiet and if a pedestrian comes out jaywalking from between parked cars, the biker might not have enough time to react and ring their bell. By the time a bell rings, the collision is imminent. Music can be heard from far enough that a jaywalker can avoid the collision path preemptively.
jordemort 5y ago
When I was a kid we used to wedge playing cards under the seat of our bikes so that they’d flap against the rear wheel and make “motorcycle sounds.”
speedybird 5y ago
This seems short sighted to me. Playing loud music might make it safer for you to cycle, but will also contribute to the public's general resentment towards cyclists. That resentment manifests as opposition to bike lanes, and unfortunately, drivers who deliberately fuck with cyclists.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I understand this, but at the same time, cyclist-pedestrian collisions also contribute to the public's resentment towards cyclists. I'm not sure which is worse, an admittedly small chance of hitting a pedestrian or annoying them with my music for 2-3 seconds. On the balance of my safety as I have unfortunately come close to such accidents many times, the choice is not so hard. I'd like to emphasize that the music is not that loud - when I'm close to a car I can barely hear it.
  - speedybird 5y ago
    Anecdotally, I use a bike bell and I've never collided with a pedestrian. And when in the role of pedestrian myself, the only time I've ever had trouble with cyclists is when they didn't ring their bell (or have one to ring) or when a cyclist deliberately passed as close as possible to me (I suspect in some selfish attempt to not lose energy with a more courteous but very slightly longer diversion from their straight line of travel.) I really think a bike bell should be sufficient for your needs. A card in your wheel spokes would also get the job done and be a lot less obnoxious than music.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      A card in my wheel spokes is a lot louder than my phone speakers could ever hope to be. I do have a bell. It's useful. But when someone pops out of between two cars there's nothing a bell can do.
- sneak 5y ago
  Without protected bike lanes and actual enforcement against homicidally reckless drivers, we who cycle have to be shortsighted and obnoxious to live to tomorrow. Making noise and being covered in terrible blinky shit are well within the bounds of reason.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
In the Netherlands they introduced legislation last year that bans the use of smartphones while cycling (penalty of €95 fine), that ban also included wearing earbuds. So, using a speaker on a bike is safer, I guess?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It's the same in my province, yes speakers are better than headphones do you can better notice cars.

ericd 5y ago

Why not use a bike bell instead? Also, why do pedestrians need to notice you?

sudosysgen 5y ago
A bike bell is not going to work, I don't see them. If I saw them I could always talk to them. Pedestrians need to notice me because a lot of people walk on bike paths and because a lot of people jaywalk. Since I'm much closer to the parked cars and much smaller than cars they're going to realize there's no cars, think it's all clear, and when they advance I'll be there. It happened to me often. It's not loud enough that people on the sidewalk will hear me clearly - in traffic I often can't even distinguish my own music - but people that are on my way or about to walk in front of me will notice and that's good enough. Also in my city when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk, so I like to be noticed by pedestrians so they know I'm here without ringing my bike bell non-stop or speaking to everyone and trying to get them to notice me.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Your behavior is not that different from asshole car drivers that think they own the street and are aggressive towards cyclists. It is on you to ride defensively and make sure you are on an appropriate speed to avoid accidents with pedestrians, not on them to avoid you. > when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk So, get off the bike and walk.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    It's not possible to ride defensively against a person popping out of a car. There is also no safe speed which is reasonable for actually using the road where this doesn't happen. I'm also not going to slow down to 12km/h on protected bike paths because people want to walk there. I think being noticed is part of driving defensively in those situations. >So, get off the bike and walk I am not supposed to and I frankly just don't have the time to walk every time there is an underpass, and there are 6 on the way to my university. I think I'm very different from those car drivers because I'm not endangering or pushing away anyone, or being aggressive.
    - hammyhavoc 5y ago
      So people who "don't have time" and jaywalk = bad, but cyclists who "don't have time" and don't do what is expected of them = good. Hmm.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        What do you mean? I am doing exactly what is expected of me. I am allowed to cycle on sidewalks when it's an underpass, that's the law in my city, because many cyclists were killed. There are even signs on the entrance of every underpass where there is no protected bike lane indicating that bicycles should go on the sidewalks. I haven't made any judgments of value, mind you. I'm just saying that this is the only way I have of averting this issue.
        rglullis 5y ago
        "Bicycles going on sidewalks" != "supposed to cycle along pedestrians"
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That's the compromise in my city. I am allowed and expected to cycle in the sidewalk along an underpass. That means inevitably that I'm going to pass pedestrians. There are signs before warning pedestrians that there will be cyclists, but many seem not to get the memo.
- skoskie 5y ago
  Bike bells work really well. It drives me nuts when bikes ride up on me and make zero effort to ring the bell right there on their handle. If they did this, I would be out of the way by the time they got to me. I have no problem jumping out of the way.
- ericd 5y ago
  Thanks for explaining, I’ve always wondered why so many people seem to use boom boxes on bikes. I wonder if there’s some happy medium - some noise that the bike could make periodically that’s less annoying than blaring music, but also doesn’t require you to actively initiate it.
  - goguy 5y ago
    Is it really that annoying? Appreciate someone sat in a park blasting music could be, it's generally stationary for a long period of time. With a bike travelling at say ~10mph the noise is out of earshot in a few seconds.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

That’s actually a good idea. Music is out of the question for my preference, but some sort of noticeable but ignorable white noise like generated by EVs would work well. Electric bikes have almost gotten me more than a couple times, they are way too quiet and just sneak up on you.

sudosysgen 5y ago
I think the biggest issue with white noise is that bikes don't have cabin isolation. If you're trying to make white noise that people can hear through traffic ~5m away from you, it's going to be really loud to the rider! Music has that problem too, but it's easier to bear or even enjoy, and you can tune it out more easily than white noise. I certainly agree that ebikes can sneak up on you. Personally though, I would give up riding a bike if I had to use a fairly loud white noise generator. Nature sounds would be good for humans, but they might be disruptive to the fauna. Perhaps there's something that can be done about that though.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  All the EVs I’ve encountered with white noise output have been quite reasonable. At the lower spectrum, it is only audible a few meters away, and you can tune it out easily once you realize what it is. Whether phone speakers are good enough to replicate that experience, however, I’m not sure.

lhorie 5y ago

As someone who dislikes boomboxes in public, I have to say bikes are the one place where I think playing loud(ish) music makes sense. Unlike cars, bikes are very quiet and if a pedestrian comes out jaywalking from between parked cars, the biker might not have enough time to react and ring their bell. By the time a bell rings, the collision is imminent. Music can be heard from far enough that a jaywalker can avoid the collision path preemptively.

jordemort 5y ago

When I was a kid we used to wedge playing cards under the seat of our bikes so that they’d flap against the rear wheel and make “motorcycle sounds.”

speedybird 5y ago

This seems short sighted to me. Playing loud music might make it safer for you to cycle, but will also contribute to the public's general resentment towards cyclists. That resentment manifests as opposition to bike lanes, and unfortunately, drivers who deliberately fuck with cyclists.

sudosysgen 5y ago
I understand this, but at the same time, cyclist-pedestrian collisions also contribute to the public's resentment towards cyclists. I'm not sure which is worse, an admittedly small chance of hitting a pedestrian or annoying them with my music for 2-3 seconds. On the balance of my safety as I have unfortunately come close to such accidents many times, the choice is not so hard. I'd like to emphasize that the music is not that loud - when I'm close to a car I can barely hear it.
- speedybird 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I use a bike bell and I've never collided with a pedestrian. And when in the role of pedestrian myself, the only time I've ever had trouble with cyclists is when they didn't ring their bell (or have one to ring) or when a cyclist deliberately passed as close as possible to me (I suspect in some selfish attempt to not lose energy with a more courteous but very slightly longer diversion from their straight line of travel.) I really think a bike bell should be sufficient for your needs. A card in your wheel spokes would also get the job done and be a lot less obnoxious than music.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    A card in my wheel spokes is a lot louder than my phone speakers could ever hope to be. I do have a bell. It's useful. But when someone pops out of between two cars there's nothing a bell can do.
sneak 5y ago
Without protected bike lanes and actual enforcement against homicidally reckless drivers, we who cycle have to be shortsighted and obnoxious to live to tomorrow. Making noise and being covered in terrible blinky shit are well within the bounds of reason.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

In the Netherlands they introduced legislation last year that bans the use of smartphones while cycling (penalty of €95 fine), that ban also included wearing earbuds. So, using a speaker on a bike is safer, I guess?

sudosysgen 5y ago
It's the same in my province, yes speakers are better than headphones do you can better notice cars.