7 ms·

China and Taiwan are very very closely economically and culturally linked. The PRC and ROC governments do work together, it's no longer the 1970's.

nodata 5y ago
> it's no longer the 1970's. Oh? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081
- deaddodo 5y ago
  To be fair, the RoC agrees completely with Xi Jinping. They just disagree on who should run the reunified nation.
  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    That’s only their official position and they can’t change it because that’s one of the PRC red lines. They consider Taiwan dropping their claim on the mainland as a change in the status quo and a casus belli. Everyone know the RoC doesn’t aspire to a reunited China anymore.
    - deaddodo 5y ago
      So, officially, they agree with Xi Jinping.
      - stale2002 5y ago
        No, its not. If I point a gun to your head, and tell you that I am going to shoot you, if you do not "agree" that the moon is made of cheese, you are not actually "agreeing". We both know, that you do not agree that the moon is made of cheese, in this situation. I have just made words come out of your mouth, to something that you do not agree with. To say that they "agree" is just a silly word game, that does not reflect the truth of the matter, and instead is playing into propaganda that denies the reality that Taiwan is already a country, and is already independent of china, and that Taiwan is not interesting in being taken over, or taking over china.
      - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
        They say what the PRC forces them to say but de facto don’t believe in it. It’s a complete misrepresentation to argue that Taiwan agree with China regarding reunification but with reversed roles. Taiwan is a democracy and a majority of Taiwanese want independence but argue for keeping the status quo in order to avoid a war (both the KMT and the DDP - their disagreement is more technical than that). Some wanted Taiwan to declare it in the 90s to force the hand of the USA and win a decisive war but this position seems more precarious nowadays.
      - verall 5y ago
        Nice goalpost move from "completely" to "officially" (under duress).
  - tyrfing 5y ago
    That's not accurate. My understanding is the KMT agrees, and DDP doesn't (specifically: 1992 consensus), and the fact that the population opinion has been shifting towards independence is the primary tension currently. At any rate, summing it up as "the RoC agrees" would seem to simplify a cultural argument along the lines of "the US agrees completely that guns are good". For example: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3151551/tsai-ing-wen-should-watch-her-words-and-deeds https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3151551/tsai-in...
  - eric-hu 5y ago
    > In response to Xi’s speech, Taiwan’s presidential office said most Taiwanese reject that model and argued that developments in Hong Kong show how “one country, two systems” can turn on a dime. > On Sunday, at an event marking the same revolution, Tsai called on the Taiwanese people to renew their commitment “that the Republic of China and the People’s Republic of China should not be subordinate to each other. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china-reunification-tsai-ing-wen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china... Tsai has not made this one country position part of her administration, and her speech a couple of days ago made that even more explicit.
  - davidjytang 5y ago
    What?! One country two system is definitely not something ROC agrees with.
PedroBatista 5y ago
It’s no longer the 70’s as it appears we are heading to the 50’s or worse.
pvarangot 5y ago
The PRC is not a monad like most hit piece journalism and armchair geopoliticians would like to make you believe to sell you their easy to implant ideas. The ROC does behave more like a monad if that's a thing, but on the PRC side the military and the banks don't even share the same plan for dealing with Taiwan. I agree on the cultural and economical aspects both governments work together but I am not sure that on other aspects tensions are not as high as in the 1970s or worse. I wish they were not, I just don't know.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  I thought I knew what a monad was and the only problem was all the tutorials and other people clearly struggling to understand it. But now I’m not so sure.
  - skissane 5y ago
    That made me chuckle. But I think the GP is using the term "monad" more in the sense of Leibniz's philosophy than that of functional programming or category theory – "monad" as meaning ultimately simple and indivisible, as "atoms" were in the original ancient Greek atomic theory (as opposed to modern atomic theory in which the so-called "atoms" turned out to not actually be atomic after all). Of course, even in that sense the GP is using the term figuratively – nobody literally believes that China is a single indivisible entity, a hive-mind or Borg, but the GP is claiming that Chinese society (and even the Chinese government) contains more divisions of opinion and interest and attitude than many outside observers assume. And I'm sure there is some truth in that – but, I think the GP is wrong in suggesting Taiwanese society is different – that is just as true of Taiwanese society, and Taiwan being a democracy puts these differences more out in the open (DPP vs KMT etc), China's more closed system means many of these differences exist behind closed doors; and even if sometimes people inside China get away with speaking of some of them openly, they have to be careful what they say and how they say it, to a much greater extent than people in Taiwan have to
- chaostheory 5y ago
  Thanks to XJ, tensions are high again. All of Deng Xiaoping's hard work and planning have been thrown away by Xi.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nodata 5y ago

> it's no longer the 1970's. Oh? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081

deaddodo 5y ago
To be fair, the RoC agrees completely with Xi Jinping. They just disagree on who should run the reunified nation.
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  That’s only their official position and they can’t change it because that’s one of the PRC red lines. They consider Taiwan dropping their claim on the mainland as a change in the status quo and a casus belli. Everyone know the RoC doesn’t aspire to a reunited China anymore.
  - deaddodo 5y ago
    So, officially, they agree with Xi Jinping.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      No, its not. If I point a gun to your head, and tell you that I am going to shoot you, if you do not "agree" that the moon is made of cheese, you are not actually "agreeing". We both know, that you do not agree that the moon is made of cheese, in this situation. I have just made words come out of your mouth, to something that you do not agree with. To say that they "agree" is just a silly word game, that does not reflect the truth of the matter, and instead is playing into propaganda that denies the reality that Taiwan is already a country, and is already independent of china, and that Taiwan is not interesting in being taken over, or taking over china.
    - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
      They say what the PRC forces them to say but de facto don’t believe in it. It’s a complete misrepresentation to argue that Taiwan agree with China regarding reunification but with reversed roles. Taiwan is a democracy and a majority of Taiwanese want independence but argue for keeping the status quo in order to avoid a war (both the KMT and the DDP - their disagreement is more technical than that). Some wanted Taiwan to declare it in the 90s to force the hand of the USA and win a decisive war but this position seems more precarious nowadays.
    - verall 5y ago
      Nice goalpost move from "completely" to "officially" (under duress).
- tyrfing 5y ago
  That's not accurate. My understanding is the KMT agrees, and DDP doesn't (specifically: 1992 consensus), and the fact that the population opinion has been shifting towards independence is the primary tension currently. At any rate, summing it up as "the RoC agrees" would seem to simplify a cultural argument along the lines of "the US agrees completely that guns are good". For example: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3151551/tsai-ing-wen-should-watch-her-words-and-deeds https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3151551/tsai-in...
- eric-hu 5y ago
  > In response to Xi’s speech, Taiwan’s presidential office said most Taiwanese reject that model and argued that developments in Hong Kong show how “one country, two systems” can turn on a dime. > On Sunday, at an event marking the same revolution, Tsai called on the Taiwanese people to renew their commitment “that the Republic of China and the People’s Republic of China should not be subordinate to each other. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china-reunification-tsai-ing-wen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china... Tsai has not made this one country position part of her administration, and her speech a couple of days ago made that even more explicit.
- davidjytang 5y ago
  What?! One country two system is definitely not something ROC agrees with.

PedroBatista 5y ago

It’s no longer the 70’s as it appears we are heading to the 50’s or worse.

pvarangot 5y ago

The PRC is not a monad like most hit piece journalism and armchair geopoliticians would like to make you believe to sell you their easy to implant ideas. The ROC does behave more like a monad if that's a thing, but on the PRC side the military and the banks don't even share the same plan for dealing with Taiwan. I agree on the cultural and economical aspects both governments work together but I am not sure that on other aspects tensions are not as high as in the 1970s or worse. I wish they were not, I just don't know.

dan-robertson 5y ago
I thought I knew what a monad was and the only problem was all the tutorials and other people clearly struggling to understand it. But now I’m not so sure.
- skissane 5y ago
  That made me chuckle. But I think the GP is using the term "monad" more in the sense of Leibniz's philosophy than that of functional programming or category theory – "monad" as meaning ultimately simple and indivisible, as "atoms" were in the original ancient Greek atomic theory (as opposed to modern atomic theory in which the so-called "atoms" turned out to not actually be atomic after all). Of course, even in that sense the GP is using the term figuratively – nobody literally believes that China is a single indivisible entity, a hive-mind or Borg, but the GP is claiming that Chinese society (and even the Chinese government) contains more divisions of opinion and interest and attitude than many outside observers assume. And I'm sure there is some truth in that – but, I think the GP is wrong in suggesting Taiwanese society is different – that is just as true of Taiwanese society, and Taiwan being a democracy puts these differences more out in the open (DPP vs KMT etc), China's more closed system means many of these differences exist behind closed doors; and even if sometimes people inside China get away with speaking of some of them openly, they have to be careful what they say and how they say it, to a much greater extent than people in Taiwan have to
chaostheory 5y ago
Thanks to XJ, tensions are high again. All of Deng Xiaoping's hard work and planning have been thrown away by Xi.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]