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This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

krageon 5y ago
I find the trick was (and is, really) to meet people online and to make appointments to meet them IRL.
IggleSniggle 5y ago
Well, yes. If not "everyone," certainly lots and lots of folks are just staying home whenever possible. Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I think this has much more to do with "we are in a global pandemic" than "you can't meet people doing remote work." Certainly, there were a number of larger groups that I used to hang out with consistently pre-pandemic, but now have totally abandoned. I'm not interested in maintaining an online relationship with those groups; their value to me was in the face-to-face moments. But that's just not a thing right now. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to expose my family to people who may or may not even believe in vaccinating themselves.
- sim_card_map 5y ago
  Life has always been normal here in Sweden. No lockdowns, mask mandates, restaurants have always been open. And no excess deaths. So don't speak for everyone.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    I made a point to only speak for myself, my own situation, and subjective but certainly true "lots and lots of people," whereas the person I was replying to spoke in generalities.
  - smt88 5y ago
    > And no excess deaths. False[1][2][3][4][5]. Sweden had 7.7% higher mortality in 2020 than it averaged from 2016-2019. By comparison, Sweden's closest neighbors (geographically, demographically, and socioeconomically) had far, far lower mortality because of lockdowns, mask mandates, and closing restaurants[3][4]. > "Sweden, with a COVID-19 attributed death rate of 0.54 per 1000 population as of July 5, has a higher death rate compared with its neighbours: 11.5× compared with Norway (0.05 deaths per 1000 population), 5.1× compared with Denmark (0.10 deaths per 1000 population), and 9.1× compared with Finland (0.06 deaths per 1000 population)."[1] Even more damning: we now know that Sweden intentionally allowed the virus to spread and never believed their own words about people behaving responsibly without mandates[5]. They knew that their lack of action would kill people. You can argue all you want that some of those deaths are a fair price to pay to eat at restaurants, but you can't argue that they didn't happen or that no one could have prevented them. 1. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1403494820980264 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14034948209802... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-mortality/sweden-saw-lower-2020-death-spike-than-much-of-europe-data-idUSKBN2BG1R9 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe... 3. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9 4. https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-been-so-so-surr... 5. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/22/sweden-coronavirus-covid-response/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/22/sweden-coronavirus-covi...
    - kaczordon 5y ago
      Meanwhile Belgium had around 20% excess deaths and much much stricter lockdowns. Most of Sweden’s excess deaths occurred in nursing homes, which weren’t protected enough; it had nothing to do with regular people eating at restaurants and everything to do with the protocol at those specific places. It’s quite obvious that lockdowns have dubious effects(if any) while the harms and detriment to society never seem to be measured or are dismissed flippantly as people just wanting to eat out.
      - smt88 5y ago
  - sampo 5y ago
    > And no excess deaths. Euromomo shows excess mortality for Sweden for both the spring 2020, and the winter 2020-2021: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country
    - savant_penguin 5y ago
      I just looked at graphs and it looks so incredibly mild compared to the rest of Europe (especially spain*)
  - pshc 5y ago
    Sweden had quite a few excess deaths compared to Finland and Norway. What do you mean by this?
  - the-smug-one 5y ago
    Uuhm, you're also wrong on life just being "normal". Sweden did have quite a few restrictions, just not as many or as heavy as their neighbors.
- mmmpop 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - stefs 5y ago
    vaccinated people may carry the virus, but they're a lot less infectious than un-vaccinated.
    - idiotsecant 5y ago
      While getting vaccinated is a massively good idea both for the individual and society it does appear to be the case that people who are vaccinated or were diseased and recovered and have antibodies that way that are exposed to delta virus can nonetheless develop high viral loads, high enough to be contagious to people who are not immune. It does appear that in vaccinated or otherwise immune people the viral load drops very quickly. So it's not quite as simple as people with an axe to grind will claim it is, but it is possible for a vaccinated person to briefly have the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. The duration of that dangerous period is much shorter when vaccinated, and of course the risk to the vaccinated person is much, much lower.
    - SergeAx 5y ago
      Is there a scientific research on that matter? How much is "lot less"?
      - danenania 5y ago
        The consensus on this stuff changes quickly so I may be wrong, but my understanding is that vaccinated people can reach peak viral loads that are similar to unvaccinated people, but tend to be infectious for a significantly shorter period of time, making them less contagious overall. I'm not sure exactly how much shorter but I want to say current research points toward ~50%.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    First off, if you're not vaccinated, it's really a lot less safe for you for me to be around you. I don't really want to be responsible for getting you or your family sick. But beyond that, if I can't trust you to take very basic precaution of vaccinating, can I trust you to take the much more obnoxious precaution of masking up, or the still more inconvenient precaution of social distancing generally? Or quarantining after travel? True, I was using a shorthand heuristic that is almost certainly flawed in the specific. Some people cannot get vaccines. I haven't done any research on it, so I may be wrong, but I also assume that if you have antibodies to fight off an infectious disease, the disease is statistically more likely to exist in lesser concentrations than in a person who does not have those antibodies, if it exists at all.
- bserge 5y ago
  "wE aRe iN tHe MidDlE oF a GlObAl PaNdEmIc" Man, fuck off. Sick to the bone of this shit. Where's that massive solar flare to show us real fucking problems. Not a manmade retarded response to a pathetic virus. Edit: and you, piece of shit going through old comments and downvoting everything. I see you. You're pathetic. At least flag something.
  - _6pvr 5y ago
    We are in the middle of a global pandemic. I'm sorry this reality upsets you.
    - bserge 5y ago
      No, the middle is far behind.
      - icedchai 5y ago
        We're probably closer to the beginning than the end. Look at the numbers and you'll see things are worse than they were a year ago, in terms of cases and deaths. Imagine if we didn't have the vaccines.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  I think it is, on average, incorrect to say that people are staying home for fear of the pandemic which is what I think you are suggesting. I think the average hn reader probably skews much more cautious about coronavirus, much better able to remain indoors, and much more, for want of a better phrase, socially responsible than the average person. And even among hn readers plenty will not be staying at home much. That said, I think there are pandemic-adjacent reasons people might be doing less socialising. Maybe people you might socialise with have moved away and not been replaced in the last two years. Maybe the people who would organise events you would go to skew more towards the cautious end. Maybe people are less interested in social things due to other upheavals in their lives. Maybe people have forgotten how to socialise. Maybe they are focusing on the relationships they had before more than anything new. Maybe we just forget how hard things were before and look at the past with rose-tinted spectacles.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Bars and restaurants being closed or having significant restrictions, recreational sports leagues being cancelled, other (often outdoor) events and meetups being cancelled are reasons why lots of people would do less socializing because [other] people are fearful of the pandemic even if they aren't themselves substantially fearful.
  - GFischer 5y ago
    In my case, most of my outside socializing was through gaming meetings, and: - the local Gaming Society closed for 2 years (meeting for the first time after 2 years in November), - the local game stores stopped doing in-person events for 2 years (still no news on Magic: the Gathering in-person pre-releases, not authorized for Latin America despite my country being basically covid-free), - I started playing D&D (with coworkers, so the OP has a point), had one in-person session and then we moved to Roll20 (slowly coming back to in-person). I do think people were socializing outside more before the pandemic.
- baud147258 5y ago
  > Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. Really? Maybe I forgot because here in France it feels like we've kinda gone back to business as usual, as long as one can show proof of vaccination (necessary if you want to go to the restaurants, cinemas and museums).
  - sharken 5y ago
    France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. With that said, i think many are still a bit cautious after being bombarded with warnings of the Coronavirus for 12 months straight. To me though I'm back to normality and slowly but surely everyone else.
    - felipellrocha 5y ago
      > France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. Disappointed who? The anti-vaxxer community? Good.
      - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
        Point of clarification, because you're spreading misinformation: being opposed to one specific vaccine type is NOT the same as being an "anti-vaxxer." It will behoove you to be clear on that point.
        krageon 5y ago
        > misinformation The overlap between the two groups is so large and the justifications so similar that they may as well be the same. It is not useful for clarity, brevity or comprehension to distinguish the two.
        jcims 5y ago
        This type of generalization is what allows people to bulldoze details and nuance in favor of bright tribal lines. It’s the same psychological shortcut that folks use when they call any social program ‘socialism’. It’s lazy and destructive.
- presentation 5y ago
  I know plenty of people who are staying home not because they're worried about COVID, but more because they've come to enjoy the seclusion and convenience of ordering delivery all the time.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    As someone who 'enjoyed the convenience of delivery' long before the coronavirus pandemic, it's quite weird to realise that wasn't as normal (then) as it seemed. City bubble I suppose. Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. (I don't mean takeaway food - though it's certainly 'normal' among certain demographics.. - just groceries, Amazon, etc.)
    - Svperstar 5y ago
      > Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. In large sections of the US, I am guessing like 90% of the country it is almost impossible to survive without a car, like you literally will end up homeless without an automobile and I am not exaggerating.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Sure, but no section of the US large or otherwise is in London.
    - presentation 5y ago
      I live in Tokyo and prefer to go out and eat, despite delivery being easy. Food tastes better when it’s fresh, not served in a plastic container, in a nice environment, and it’s not even hard to do - hundreds of options within a 10 minute walk of my apartment.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Like I said I'm not talking about takeaway food - which I pretty much never order, agree I'd rather eat in a restaurant. I mean about getting groceries (with which I can prepare the meal) delivered. But I suppose same would stand to compare picking up a takeaway in person vs. having it delivered. (i.e. if that's what I ate, I would almost certainly have it delivered.)
jdavis703 5y ago
People are definitely staying home more. I live in what was once a bustling night life district. It is far less bustling now. I also feel people are sticking more to their core friends and family groups, and venturing out to meet new people less. But that’s more of a personal feeling than something I have quantitatively observed.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  Are there still restrictions where you live? I didn't go anywhere while masks were still required. It's annoying and, sure, I'm sorry for your small business (a nearby business wrote a sign "come and eat here or we'll starve") but I won't bother covering my face just to buy something I can order online, helping my friend Jeff Bezos in the process. Same with holidays, I'm not coming to your country to relax if I have to wear a mask. Now that masks are not required in my country I go out as much as I did before.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    Yeah masks are still technically required, but if they’re anything like indoor dining, people are lax about wearing them once inside (I haven’t been to any since the pandemic, so I could be wrong).
    - RNCTX 5y ago
      Depends. I live in north Dallas. Masks were always just a guideline here, no matter how many "required" signs there were, anywhere from 25% to 50% of the clientele on any given day would just ignore them. We now are going the other direction, state buildings are prohibited from requiring masks and private businesses do so at their peril because people are generally against them.
ryanSrich 5y ago
At least where I live you can’t do much without wearing a mask, including being outdoors within 6 feet of people. This likely has A LOT to do with it.
laurent92 5y ago
Yes. Another reason is, Covid had polarized people. Not only health-wise about “the vax”, but also politically. Spending many more lonely hours during lockdowns, rehearsing thoughts, drip-fed by social media and news outlets, witnessing all the extreme behavior of “the other camp” (whichever camp you are in) did wonders in being disgusted of meddling again. With polarization, it’s difficult to meddle. There’s a reason why social isolation is used as punishment, even in carceral locations. We’re just getting out of it at a societal level.
ipaddr 5y ago
People don't want to get covid. Getting close to large groups or new groups feels unsafe. Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.
- orangecat 5y ago
  Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable. This is silly if you're vaccinated and not in an unusually high risk group.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    I think it’s not a question of what is rational but of how one feels and how one’s social circle feels.
    - orangecat 5y ago
      Very true. We're at a bizarre point where for large segments of the population, the actual and self-perceived risks are exactly reversed.
- snek_case 5y ago
  Personally, I'm vaccinated and I feel pretty safe. I'd like to resume a more normal way of life. It's just that there's nothing happening. There's no office, no happy hour or hanging out after work. Very few dinner or coffee invitations. No meetups. No going out dancing. Just way less events in general. > Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable. Human beings are social creatures and it's normal that we have a need to see people and connect. The directive to self-isolate has been very detrimental for a lot of people's mental health. I'm privileged enough to have access to a therapist, but I feel like I'm kind of on the edge of depression, very apathetic about life. I don't want to make this a political discussion, it's hard to balance self-sacrifice vs the greater good, but we've all sacrificed a lot considering this disease has killed about 6.2 people per ten thousand over the last 18 months, whereas about 200 people per ten thousand would have died otherwise. Are we going to keep this up for several more years? What's the impact on our society going to be?
MattGaiser 5y ago
Or retreated to already known communities. I’ve spent far more time chatting with acquaintances this year than ever before.
raisedbyninjas 5y ago
We've been staying home for well over a year now. Virtually all shopping is delivered and have eaten at a restaraunt once I think. Our work as had one outdoor happy hour that I would have gone to, except for non-pandemic issues. I've been blown away at the recent movie box office ticket sales. Maybe the covid blasé people are going out 50% more often than they did pre-pandemic.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  If you’re in the US, I think your attitude is basically just extremely unrepresentative of the general population.
  - raisedbyninjas 5y ago
    Yes, we're vaccinated in a red state. Just three weeks ago the infection and death rate neared the all time high. We don't feel like hypochondriacs. It's just easy to play it safe for the time being without feeling like we've lost anything substantial.
- kaesar14 5y ago
  You’d be an extreme outlier in almost any city or town in America for this attitude, at this point in the pandemic
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  Are you vaccinated? Everyone who I know got vaccinated and basically started living their lives normally again as much as possible, wearing masks indoors in crowds and maskless outdoors. Several have now gone overseas to Europe
void_mint 5y ago
> It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now? The pandemic is probably a bigger deal to others than it is to you.
- snek_case 5y ago
  From what I'm seeing it's kind of a chicken and egg problem. A lot of people are happy/eager to return to normal, but there aren't a lot of events, there are still restrictions in place, and people are no longer used to seeing people as much. I include myself in that. I'd like to go to events, but I don't really spend much time looking for them, because I assume said events aren't happening.
renewiltord 5y ago
No. People are more eager than ever to meet. I have made more friends than ever before. However, I definitely give new people who are übermaskers a bit of a wide berth mostly out of respect for them.
- snek_case 5y ago
  Can I ask which country you live in and what type of place you go to meet people these days?
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    I live in San Francisco, CA in the USA. I have expanded through the friends I made at my first job and through my uni friends and I have a few through my hobbies: ceramics, weightlifting, bicycling, soccer.
faangthrowawa 5y ago
This basically pushed me into a depressive spiral last year. Spent months wondering if I was just broken or not meant to be social. Even started picking up incredibly unhealthy habits to compensate. I think my issue isn't WFH, or virtual socialisation (which I was already doing 2-3 times per week to keep in touch with high school friends). The problem is both. 16 hours a day in front of a computer just didn't feel human. Given the choice, I will never work from home again. Even at work I have a rule of no more than 4-5 hours in front of a screen.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

krageon 5y ago

I find the trick was (and is, really) to meet people online and to make appointments to meet them IRL.

IggleSniggle 5y ago

Well, yes. If not "everyone," certainly lots and lots of folks are just staying home whenever possible. Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I think this has much more to do with "we are in a global pandemic" than "you can't meet people doing remote work." Certainly, there were a number of larger groups that I used to hang out with consistently pre-pandemic, but now have totally abandoned. I'm not interested in maintaining an online relationship with those groups; their value to me was in the face-to-face moments. But that's just not a thing right now. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to expose my family to people who may or may not even believe in vaccinating themselves.

sim_card_map 5y ago
Life has always been normal here in Sweden. No lockdowns, mask mandates, restaurants have always been open. And no excess deaths. So don't speak for everyone.
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  I made a point to only speak for myself, my own situation, and subjective but certainly true "lots and lots of people," whereas the person I was replying to spoke in generalities.
- smt88 5y ago
  > And no excess deaths. False[1][2][3][4][5]. Sweden had 7.7% higher mortality in 2020 than it averaged from 2016-2019. By comparison, Sweden's closest neighbors (geographically, demographically, and socioeconomically) had far, far lower mortality because of lockdowns, mask mandates, and closing restaurants[3][4]. > "Sweden, with a COVID-19 attributed death rate of 0.54 per 1000 population as of July 5, has a higher death rate compared with its neighbours: 11.5× compared with Norway (0.05 deaths per 1000 population), 5.1× compared with Denmark (0.10 deaths per 1000 population), and 9.1× compared with Finland (0.06 deaths per 1000 population)."[1] Even more damning: we now know that Sweden intentionally allowed the virus to spread and never believed their own words about people behaving responsibly without mandates[5]. They knew that their lack of action would kill people. You can argue all you want that some of those deaths are a fair price to pay to eat at restaurants, but you can't argue that they didn't happen or that no one could have prevented them. 1. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1403494820980264 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14034948209802... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-mortality/sweden-saw-lower-2020-death-spike-than-much-of-europe-data-idUSKBN2BG1R9 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe... 3. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9 4. https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-been-so-so-surr... 5. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/22/sweden-coronavirus-covid-response/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/22/sweden-coronavirus-covi...
  - kaczordon 5y ago
    Meanwhile Belgium had around 20% excess deaths and much much stricter lockdowns. Most of Sweden’s excess deaths occurred in nursing homes, which weren’t protected enough; it had nothing to do with regular people eating at restaurants and everything to do with the protocol at those specific places. It’s quite obvious that lockdowns have dubious effects(if any) while the harms and detriment to society never seem to be measured or are dismissed flippantly as people just wanting to eat out.
    - smt88 5y ago
- sampo 5y ago
  > And no excess deaths. Euromomo shows excess mortality for Sweden for both the spring 2020, and the winter 2020-2021: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country
  - savant_penguin 5y ago
    I just looked at graphs and it looks so incredibly mild compared to the rest of Europe (especially spain*)
- pshc 5y ago
  Sweden had quite a few excess deaths compared to Finland and Norway. What do you mean by this?
- the-smug-one 5y ago
  Uuhm, you're also wrong on life just being "normal". Sweden did have quite a few restrictions, just not as many or as heavy as their neighbors.
mmmpop 5y ago
[flagged]
- stefs 5y ago
  vaccinated people may carry the virus, but they're a lot less infectious than un-vaccinated.
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    While getting vaccinated is a massively good idea both for the individual and society it does appear to be the case that people who are vaccinated or were diseased and recovered and have antibodies that way that are exposed to delta virus can nonetheless develop high viral loads, high enough to be contagious to people who are not immune. It does appear that in vaccinated or otherwise immune people the viral load drops very quickly. So it's not quite as simple as people with an axe to grind will claim it is, but it is possible for a vaccinated person to briefly have the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. The duration of that dangerous period is much shorter when vaccinated, and of course the risk to the vaccinated person is much, much lower.
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    Is there a scientific research on that matter? How much is "lot less"?
    - danenania 5y ago
      The consensus on this stuff changes quickly so I may be wrong, but my understanding is that vaccinated people can reach peak viral loads that are similar to unvaccinated people, but tend to be infectious for a significantly shorter period of time, making them less contagious overall. I'm not sure exactly how much shorter but I want to say current research points toward ~50%.
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  First off, if you're not vaccinated, it's really a lot less safe for you for me to be around you. I don't really want to be responsible for getting you or your family sick. But beyond that, if I can't trust you to take very basic precaution of vaccinating, can I trust you to take the much more obnoxious precaution of masking up, or the still more inconvenient precaution of social distancing generally? Or quarantining after travel? True, I was using a shorthand heuristic that is almost certainly flawed in the specific. Some people cannot get vaccines. I haven't done any research on it, so I may be wrong, but I also assume that if you have antibodies to fight off an infectious disease, the disease is statistically more likely to exist in lesser concentrations than in a person who does not have those antibodies, if it exists at all.
bserge 5y ago
"wE aRe iN tHe MidDlE oF a GlObAl PaNdEmIc" Man, fuck off. Sick to the bone of this shit. Where's that massive solar flare to show us real fucking problems. Not a manmade retarded response to a pathetic virus. Edit: and you, piece of shit going through old comments and downvoting everything. I see you. You're pathetic. At least flag something.
- _6pvr 5y ago
  We are in the middle of a global pandemic. I'm sorry this reality upsets you.
  - bserge 5y ago
    No, the middle is far behind.
    - icedchai 5y ago
      We're probably closer to the beginning than the end. Look at the numbers and you'll see things are worse than they were a year ago, in terms of cases and deaths. Imagine if we didn't have the vaccines.
dan-robertson 5y ago
I think it is, on average, incorrect to say that people are staying home for fear of the pandemic which is what I think you are suggesting. I think the average hn reader probably skews much more cautious about coronavirus, much better able to remain indoors, and much more, for want of a better phrase, socially responsible than the average person. And even among hn readers plenty will not be staying at home much. That said, I think there are pandemic-adjacent reasons people might be doing less socialising. Maybe people you might socialise with have moved away and not been replaced in the last two years. Maybe the people who would organise events you would go to skew more towards the cautious end. Maybe people are less interested in social things due to other upheavals in their lives. Maybe people have forgotten how to socialise. Maybe they are focusing on the relationships they had before more than anything new. Maybe we just forget how hard things were before and look at the past with rose-tinted spectacles.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Bars and restaurants being closed or having significant restrictions, recreational sports leagues being cancelled, other (often outdoor) events and meetups being cancelled are reasons why lots of people would do less socializing because [other] people are fearful of the pandemic even if they aren't themselves substantially fearful.
- GFischer 5y ago
  In my case, most of my outside socializing was through gaming meetings, and: - the local Gaming Society closed for 2 years (meeting for the first time after 2 years in November), - the local game stores stopped doing in-person events for 2 years (still no news on Magic: the Gathering in-person pre-releases, not authorized for Latin America despite my country being basically covid-free), - I started playing D&D (with coworkers, so the OP has a point), had one in-person session and then we moved to Roll20 (slowly coming back to in-person). I do think people were socializing outside more before the pandemic.
baud147258 5y ago
> Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. Really? Maybe I forgot because here in France it feels like we've kinda gone back to business as usual, as long as one can show proof of vaccination (necessary if you want to go to the restaurants, cinemas and museums).
- sharken 5y ago
  France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. With that said, i think many are still a bit cautious after being bombarded with warnings of the Coronavirus for 12 months straight. To me though I'm back to normality and slowly but surely everyone else.
  - felipellrocha 5y ago
    > France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. Disappointed who? The anti-vaxxer community? Good.
    - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
      Point of clarification, because you're spreading misinformation: being opposed to one specific vaccine type is NOT the same as being an "anti-vaxxer." It will behoove you to be clear on that point.
      - krageon 5y ago
        > misinformation The overlap between the two groups is so large and the justifications so similar that they may as well be the same. It is not useful for clarity, brevity or comprehension to distinguish the two.
        jcims 5y ago
        This type of generalization is what allows people to bulldoze details and nuance in favor of bright tribal lines. It’s the same psychological shortcut that folks use when they call any social program ‘socialism’. It’s lazy and destructive.
presentation 5y ago
I know plenty of people who are staying home not because they're worried about COVID, but more because they've come to enjoy the seclusion and convenience of ordering delivery all the time.
- OJFord 5y ago
  As someone who 'enjoyed the convenience of delivery' long before the coronavirus pandemic, it's quite weird to realise that wasn't as normal (then) as it seemed. City bubble I suppose. Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. (I don't mean takeaway food - though it's certainly 'normal' among certain demographics.. - just groceries, Amazon, etc.)
  - Svperstar 5y ago
    > Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. In large sections of the US, I am guessing like 90% of the country it is almost impossible to survive without a car, like you literally will end up homeless without an automobile and I am not exaggerating.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Sure, but no section of the US large or otherwise is in London.
  - presentation 5y ago
    I live in Tokyo and prefer to go out and eat, despite delivery being easy. Food tastes better when it’s fresh, not served in a plastic container, in a nice environment, and it’s not even hard to do - hundreds of options within a 10 minute walk of my apartment.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Like I said I'm not talking about takeaway food - which I pretty much never order, agree I'd rather eat in a restaurant. I mean about getting groceries (with which I can prepare the meal) delivered. But I suppose same would stand to compare picking up a takeaway in person vs. having it delivered. (i.e. if that's what I ate, I would almost certainly have it delivered.)

jdavis703 5y ago

People are definitely staying home more. I live in what was once a bustling night life district. It is far less bustling now. I also feel people are sticking more to their core friends and family groups, and venturing out to meet new people less. But that’s more of a personal feeling than something I have quantitatively observed.

jokethrowaway 5y ago
Are there still restrictions where you live? I didn't go anywhere while masks were still required. It's annoying and, sure, I'm sorry for your small business (a nearby business wrote a sign "come and eat here or we'll starve") but I won't bother covering my face just to buy something I can order online, helping my friend Jeff Bezos in the process. Same with holidays, I'm not coming to your country to relax if I have to wear a mask. Now that masks are not required in my country I go out as much as I did before.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  Yeah masks are still technically required, but if they’re anything like indoor dining, people are lax about wearing them once inside (I haven’t been to any since the pandemic, so I could be wrong).
  - RNCTX 5y ago
    Depends. I live in north Dallas. Masks were always just a guideline here, no matter how many "required" signs there were, anywhere from 25% to 50% of the clientele on any given day would just ignore them. We now are going the other direction, state buildings are prohibited from requiring masks and private businesses do so at their peril because people are generally against them.

ryanSrich 5y ago

At least where I live you can’t do much without wearing a mask, including being outdoors within 6 feet of people. This likely has A LOT to do with it.

laurent92 5y ago

Yes. Another reason is, Covid had polarized people. Not only health-wise about “the vax”, but also politically. Spending many more lonely hours during lockdowns, rehearsing thoughts, drip-fed by social media and news outlets, witnessing all the extreme behavior of “the other camp” (whichever camp you are in) did wonders in being disgusted of meddling again. With polarization, it’s difficult to meddle. There’s a reason why social isolation is used as punishment, even in carceral locations. We’re just getting out of it at a societal level.

ipaddr 5y ago

People don't want to get covid. Getting close to large groups or new groups feels unsafe. Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.

orangecat 5y ago
Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable. This is silly if you're vaccinated and not in an unusually high risk group.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  I think it’s not a question of what is rational but of how one feels and how one’s social circle feels.
  - orangecat 5y ago
    Very true. We're at a bizarre point where for large segments of the population, the actual and self-perceived risks are exactly reversed.
snek_case 5y ago
Personally, I'm vaccinated and I feel pretty safe. I'd like to resume a more normal way of life. It's just that there's nothing happening. There's no office, no happy hour or hanging out after work. Very few dinner or coffee invitations. No meetups. No going out dancing. Just way less events in general. > Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable. Human beings are social creatures and it's normal that we have a need to see people and connect. The directive to self-isolate has been very detrimental for a lot of people's mental health. I'm privileged enough to have access to a therapist, but I feel like I'm kind of on the edge of depression, very apathetic about life. I don't want to make this a political discussion, it's hard to balance self-sacrifice vs the greater good, but we've all sacrificed a lot considering this disease has killed about 6.2 people per ten thousand over the last 18 months, whereas about 200 people per ten thousand would have died otherwise. Are we going to keep this up for several more years? What's the impact on our society going to be?

MattGaiser 5y ago

Or retreated to already known communities. I’ve spent far more time chatting with acquaintances this year than ever before.

raisedbyninjas 5y ago

We've been staying home for well over a year now. Virtually all shopping is delivered and have eaten at a restaraunt once I think. Our work as had one outdoor happy hour that I would have gone to, except for non-pandemic issues. I've been blown away at the recent movie box office ticket sales. Maybe the covid blasé people are going out 50% more often than they did pre-pandemic.

dan-robertson 5y ago
If you’re in the US, I think your attitude is basically just extremely unrepresentative of the general population.
- raisedbyninjas 5y ago
  Yes, we're vaccinated in a red state. Just three weeks ago the infection and death rate neared the all time high. We don't feel like hypochondriacs. It's just easy to play it safe for the time being without feeling like we've lost anything substantial.
kaesar14 5y ago
You’d be an extreme outlier in almost any city or town in America for this attitude, at this point in the pandemic
mitchdoogle 5y ago
Are you vaccinated? Everyone who I know got vaccinated and basically started living their lives normally again as much as possible, wearing masks indoors in crowds and maskless outdoors. Several have now gone overseas to Europe

void_mint 5y ago

> It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now? The pandemic is probably a bigger deal to others than it is to you.

snek_case 5y ago
From what I'm seeing it's kind of a chicken and egg problem. A lot of people are happy/eager to return to normal, but there aren't a lot of events, there are still restrictions in place, and people are no longer used to seeing people as much. I include myself in that. I'd like to go to events, but I don't really spend much time looking for them, because I assume said events aren't happening.

renewiltord 5y ago

No. People are more eager than ever to meet. I have made more friends than ever before. However, I definitely give new people who are übermaskers a bit of a wide berth mostly out of respect for them.

snek_case 5y ago
Can I ask which country you live in and what type of place you go to meet people these days?
- renewiltord 5y ago
  I live in San Francisco, CA in the USA. I have expanded through the friends I made at my first job and through my uni friends and I have a few through my hobbies: ceramics, weightlifting, bicycling, soccer.

faangthrowawa 5y ago

This basically pushed me into a depressive spiral last year. Spent months wondering if I was just broken or not meant to be social. Even started picking up incredibly unhealthy habits to compensate. I think my issue isn't WFH, or virtual socialisation (which I was already doing 2-3 times per week to keep in touch with high school friends). The problem is both. 16 hours a day in front of a computer just didn't feel human. Given the choice, I will never work from home again. Even at work I have a rule of no more than 4-5 hours in front of a screen.

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