10 ms·

The return of "boom boxes" is ruining areas of US parks. This is facilitated by some smart phones with loud volumes or attachments to smart phones that turn the

The return of "boom boxes" is ruining areas of US parks. This is facilitated by some smart phones with loud volumes or attachments to smart phones that turn them into boom boxes. I dont want hear other people loud music at times. P.s. these devices are on bicycles and hikers too.

sonthonax 5y ago
Agreed. I wonder what's driving the upsurge? It's the same in the UK too. I remember being at a park party a few months ago with some fellow 20-25 year olds; I suggested turning the music down, but it took the police to kindly ask for the request to be heeded. What astonished me was that the 20 something girls were indignant at the police's request, as if their human rights were violated.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  I feel like in general there's been a big increase in selfish antisocial behavior since the pandemic started.
  - j_walter 5y ago
    I think the latest generation has been taught that they are more important than anyone else and really lack manners. This is evident in the rise of social media and "influencers".
    - nerdponx 5y ago
      I'm not sure we can blame any particular generation. I see it just as much in people over 40 as I do people under 30, and all ages in between.
    - speedybird 5y ago
      Maybe they spent too much time socializing on the internet (where manners are in short supply and consequences for rudeness nonexistent), and not enough time socializing in the real world (where being rude will eventually get you punched in the face.)
      - Natfan 5y ago
        “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." - Socrates, over 2,500 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_these_days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_these_days
        speedybird 5y ago
        Just because it's been said many times before, doesn't mean it was wrong each of those times. There may be periods where children get worse, and times when children get better. I believe your 'rebuttal' is whig history; a fallacy wherein you assume that history has a linear narrative, trending inexorably only in one direction. Where is the society of Socrates today? Athenian hegemony peaked during Socrates lifespan. But you assume his observations about the declining society he was witness to are wrong? Why? Because we have such marvelous advanced technologies and social ideas today and you interpolate a straight line between these points? That interpolation is whig history.
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  I don't know about people specifically using their phone, but the availability of cheap Bluetooth speakers is one factor.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Cheap and actually really good; ten years ago I wouldn't have thought it possible to get that fidelity and volume out of such a small package.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  It's because the police doesn't inspire respect anymore. They have violated people's rights too often (in the US mainly), and in the UK they just look comical in a lot of cases. It's the uniforms and the general fitness levels. I don't mind police, but they need to work on discipline. They need to be around more even when they're not responding to anything (proactive instead of reactive). Back in the day (not my day mind you, lol), every neighbourhood would have a neighbourhood policeman that would do the rounds, do a chat with the locals, that kinda thing. But that was the same time where people working for the post were still respected (by their employer); uniform, full-time job and benefits, the works. Nowadays it's an underpaid part-time mcjob.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
My personal peeve is when people do this at the beach. (Including my friends!) Like, you have headphones. You can enjoy your music. A big part of the fun, for me, is hearing the water and gulls and sand and waves.
- pdpi 5y ago
  The beach is plenty loud and disruptive, so, while a nuisance to me, I’m sort of ok with the music. Parks are different — they’re habitats for wild life, and the implicit contract is that we get to enjoy that wild life’s presence as long as we’re not too disruptive. Loud music from a boom box in that context is much more damaging than at the beach.
- AHabe 5y ago
  It came as a surprise to me but some people are extremely uncomfortable when their environment is silent or at least quieter than they are used to. I went to camping on Dartmoor with a friend about a decade ago, he just started screaming out and playing music out of nowhere. He grew up in London like me and for some reason he was unable to handle the absence of noise when we were the only people who miles around.
Aromasin 5y ago
This trend seems to extend to the UK too. To be honest, I don't mind it in open public spaces likes parks and such. I mostly travel on the London underground though, which is cramped place at the best of times, and a frankly ridiculous amount of people have recently started listening to music through their loudspeaker on full volume. The most baffling part is it's often people on their own, not in groups. Every time I think to myself that now might be the time to pull out the old homemade EMP gun and take it for a spin.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Maybe empathy is pareto distributed.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I'm no sociologist, but I'm guessing it's a kind of self-expression and attention seeking, they want people to notice them - and negative attention is also attention.
  - rogual 5y ago
    I've always got the impression it was territorial; "I hereby claim this space"
icelancer 5y ago
People love using them on the bus and light rail, too. It's... not great.
jimt1234 5y ago
100% agree. I remember going camping just before pandemic hit. It wasn't peaceful at all, more like a rave party.
jonpurdy 5y ago
Noticed this when I moved to SF a couple of years ago. No idea why it's so popular here compared to Toronto, especially when people are alone and can just wear earbuds.
bikingbismuth 5y ago
I have had to find more remote hiking locations to get away from the increasingly prevalent use of (awful sounding) bluetooth speakers on hiking trails. I have definitely fantasized about "loudly broadcasting" on the same frequencies that BT uses to get a bit of peace and quiet. I would never do this because there are probably some highly unfortunate unintended consequences and I don't want to go to jail.
ldiracdelta 5y ago
Headphones are fantastic nowadays. Make your eardrums bleed without bothering anyone. While we're at it, I hate rock cairns too, aside from those used to actually help people by marking routes. I didn't go to the forest to see trash, graffiti, rock cairns, or other man-made creations.
- randycupertino 5y ago
  > I hate rock cairns too In my local nextdoor.com thread there was a GIANT flamewar over rock cairns and inspirational painted rocks along hiking trails. "But think of the children!" who like painting rocks and leaving inspirational messages!! I briefly thought about painting and leaving some "demotivational rocks" around until I realized I'd have to actually collect, paint and distribute rocks to make that happen.
  - ldiracdelta 5y ago
    Reminds me of https://emblazeyourtrail.com/products/cairn-crusher?variant=39340224413740 https://emblazeyourtrail.com/products/cairn-crusher?variant=...
    - randycupertino 5y ago
      See, that would be an excellent graphic for a demotivational rock!
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Demotivational rocks sound great. "You don't matter. Give up.", that level of nihilism. But at the least they could use paint or crayons that just wash off after a bit of rain.
- speedybird 5y ago
  Can you explain the hate for rock cairns to me? I don't hike so I'm not creating them, but to me they seem to violate the letter of "leave no trace", but not the spirit.
dillondoyle 5y ago
Drones too!! So loud and obnoxious. You don't need overhead footage for your social in one of the most photographed places in a popular national park. The music thing is a big issue in the climbing community, mostly younger / newer climbers. I don't mind in some places if they are somewhat contained and they ask first. but not in national parks, nothing loud, and nothing obnoxiously distracting. Some funny 'drama' on Instagram between a very skilled teenager and an older leader in the community. Kid played music in a national park and complained about not being able to find stashed pads on Instagram (leaving large foam in a national park === bad). The older community leader posted a photo of him and park rangers taking trash/pads down. Didn't mention the kid but oh boy that kid did what a lot of teenagers do and barfed out a lot of drama. it was funny to read. Made me feel very much in old man on the stoop territory. There were more supporters taking the side that stashing pads and playing music is acceptable in a national park, and the older leaders who actually interact with rangers are 'gate keeping' and just don't understand ;0
- dvngnt_ 5y ago
  maybe we need quieter drones
  - catillac 5y ago
    We do, in addition to continuing banning drones in wildlife areas like national and state parks due to externalities such as messing with bird flocks.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Is it physically possible? Theoretically like what is the quietest we could go?! Is it just the motor or is there some sound generated just by moving air around?
    - sam_bristow 5y ago
      I've seen some people doing work on this [1]. I can't remember how much was actually making the drones quieter vs doing signal processing to remove the sound from on-board audio capture. [1] https://www.dotterel.com/ https://www.dotterel.com/
lvs 5y ago
This is all because of the absurd war against the 3.5 mm jack. Bring back the jack, and I promise you this social problem will be alleviated.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  But then how can they sell $20 headphones with a 1000% markup?
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Stamp a brand on it and spend most of your money on fighting counterfeits.
sudosysgen 5y ago
Unpopular opinion - I use speakers on my bicycle. I used to have a lot of problems with pedestrians not noticing me and even other bikers that were fixed by using my phone's speakers at the 80% settings and playing music on them. Think of it as my own version of the noise emitting devices on EVs. On the one hand I kind of feel like a dick but on the other hand I still make much less noise than a car and there's no other way of people knowing I'm there when they don't have LOS.
- ericd 5y ago
  Why not use a bike bell instead? Also, why do pedestrians need to notice you?
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    A bike bell is not going to work, I don't see them. If I saw them I could always talk to them. Pedestrians need to notice me because a lot of people walk on bike paths and because a lot of people jaywalk. Since I'm much closer to the parked cars and much smaller than cars they're going to realize there's no cars, think it's all clear, and when they advance I'll be there. It happened to me often. It's not loud enough that people on the sidewalk will hear me clearly - in traffic I often can't even distinguish my own music - but people that are on my way or about to walk in front of me will notice and that's good enough. Also in my city when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk, so I like to be noticed by pedestrians so they know I'm here without ringing my bike bell non-stop or speaking to everyone and trying to get them to notice me.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Your behavior is not that different from asshole car drivers that think they own the street and are aggressive towards cyclists. It is on you to ride defensively and make sure you are on an appropriate speed to avoid accidents with pedestrians, not on them to avoid you. > when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk So, get off the bike and walk.

sonthonax 5y ago

Agreed. I wonder what's driving the upsurge? It's the same in the UK too. I remember being at a park party a few months ago with some fellow 20-25 year olds; I suggested turning the music down, but it took the police to kindly ask for the request to be heeded. What astonished me was that the 20 something girls were indignant at the police's request, as if their human rights were violated.

nerdponx 5y ago
I feel like in general there's been a big increase in selfish antisocial behavior since the pandemic started.
- j_walter 5y ago
  I think the latest generation has been taught that they are more important than anyone else and really lack manners. This is evident in the rise of social media and "influencers".
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    I'm not sure we can blame any particular generation. I see it just as much in people over 40 as I do people under 30, and all ages in between.
  - speedybird 5y ago
    Maybe they spent too much time socializing on the internet (where manners are in short supply and consequences for rudeness nonexistent), and not enough time socializing in the real world (where being rude will eventually get you punched in the face.)
    - Natfan 5y ago
      “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." - Socrates, over 2,500 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_these_days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_these_days
      - speedybird 5y ago
        Just because it's been said many times before, doesn't mean it was wrong each of those times. There may be periods where children get worse, and times when children get better. I believe your 'rebuttal' is whig history; a fallacy wherein you assume that history has a linear narrative, trending inexorably only in one direction. Where is the society of Socrates today? Athenian hegemony peaked during Socrates lifespan. But you assume his observations about the declining society he was witness to are wrong? Why? Because we have such marvelous advanced technologies and social ideas today and you interpolate a straight line between these points? That interpolation is whig history.
skocznymroczny 5y ago
I don't know about people specifically using their phone, but the availability of cheap Bluetooth speakers is one factor.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Cheap and actually really good; ten years ago I wouldn't have thought it possible to get that fidelity and volume out of such a small package.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It's because the police doesn't inspire respect anymore. They have violated people's rights too often (in the US mainly), and in the UK they just look comical in a lot of cases. It's the uniforms and the general fitness levels. I don't mind police, but they need to work on discipline. They need to be around more even when they're not responding to anything (proactive instead of reactive). Back in the day (not my day mind you, lol), every neighbourhood would have a neighbourhood policeman that would do the rounds, do a chat with the locals, that kinda thing. But that was the same time where people working for the post were still respected (by their employer); uniform, full-time job and benefits, the works. Nowadays it's an underpaid part-time mcjob.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

My personal peeve is when people do this at the beach. (Including my friends!) Like, you have headphones. You can enjoy your music. A big part of the fun, for me, is hearing the water and gulls and sand and waves.

pdpi 5y ago
The beach is plenty loud and disruptive, so, while a nuisance to me, I’m sort of ok with the music. Parks are different — they’re habitats for wild life, and the implicit contract is that we get to enjoy that wild life’s presence as long as we’re not too disruptive. Loud music from a boom box in that context is much more damaging than at the beach.
AHabe 5y ago
It came as a surprise to me but some people are extremely uncomfortable when their environment is silent or at least quieter than they are used to. I went to camping on Dartmoor with a friend about a decade ago, he just started screaming out and playing music out of nowhere. He grew up in London like me and for some reason he was unable to handle the absence of noise when we were the only people who miles around.

Aromasin 5y ago

This trend seems to extend to the UK too. To be honest, I don't mind it in open public spaces likes parks and such. I mostly travel on the London underground though, which is cramped place at the best of times, and a frankly ridiculous amount of people have recently started listening to music through their loudspeaker on full volume. The most baffling part is it's often people on their own, not in groups. Every time I think to myself that now might be the time to pull out the old homemade EMP gun and take it for a spin.

mhh__ 5y ago
Maybe empathy is pareto distributed.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I'm no sociologist, but I'm guessing it's a kind of self-expression and attention seeking, they want people to notice them - and negative attention is also attention.
- rogual 5y ago
  I've always got the impression it was territorial; "I hereby claim this space"

icelancer 5y ago

People love using them on the bus and light rail, too. It's... not great.

jimt1234 5y ago

100% agree. I remember going camping just before pandemic hit. It wasn't peaceful at all, more like a rave party.

jonpurdy 5y ago

Noticed this when I moved to SF a couple of years ago. No idea why it's so popular here compared to Toronto, especially when people are alone and can just wear earbuds.

bikingbismuth 5y ago

I have had to find more remote hiking locations to get away from the increasingly prevalent use of (awful sounding) bluetooth speakers on hiking trails. I have definitely fantasized about "loudly broadcasting" on the same frequencies that BT uses to get a bit of peace and quiet. I would never do this because there are probably some highly unfortunate unintended consequences and I don't want to go to jail.

ldiracdelta 5y ago

Headphones are fantastic nowadays. Make your eardrums bleed without bothering anyone. While we're at it, I hate rock cairns too, aside from those used to actually help people by marking routes. I didn't go to the forest to see trash, graffiti, rock cairns, or other man-made creations.

randycupertino 5y ago
> I hate rock cairns too In my local nextdoor.com thread there was a GIANT flamewar over rock cairns and inspirational painted rocks along hiking trails. "But think of the children!" who like painting rocks and leaving inspirational messages!! I briefly thought about painting and leaving some "demotivational rocks" around until I realized I'd have to actually collect, paint and distribute rocks to make that happen.
- ldiracdelta 5y ago
  Reminds me of https://emblazeyourtrail.com/products/cairn-crusher?variant=39340224413740 https://emblazeyourtrail.com/products/cairn-crusher?variant=...
  - randycupertino 5y ago
    See, that would be an excellent graphic for a demotivational rock!
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Demotivational rocks sound great. "You don't matter. Give up.", that level of nihilism. But at the least they could use paint or crayons that just wash off after a bit of rain.
speedybird 5y ago
Can you explain the hate for rock cairns to me? I don't hike so I'm not creating them, but to me they seem to violate the letter of "leave no trace", but not the spirit.

dillondoyle 5y ago

Drones too!! So loud and obnoxious. You don't need overhead footage for your social in one of the most photographed places in a popular national park. The music thing is a big issue in the climbing community, mostly younger / newer climbers. I don't mind in some places if they are somewhat contained and they ask first. but not in national parks, nothing loud, and nothing obnoxiously distracting. Some funny 'drama' on Instagram between a very skilled teenager and an older leader in the community. Kid played music in a national park and complained about not being able to find stashed pads on Instagram (leaving large foam in a national park === bad). The older community leader posted a photo of him and park rangers taking trash/pads down. Didn't mention the kid but oh boy that kid did what a lot of teenagers do and barfed out a lot of drama. it was funny to read. Made me feel very much in old man on the stoop territory. There were more supporters taking the side that stashing pads and playing music is acceptable in a national park, and the older leaders who actually interact with rangers are 'gate keeping' and just don't understand ;0

dvngnt_ 5y ago
maybe we need quieter drones
- catillac 5y ago
  We do, in addition to continuing banning drones in wildlife areas like national and state parks due to externalities such as messing with bird flocks.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Is it physically possible? Theoretically like what is the quietest we could go?! Is it just the motor or is there some sound generated just by moving air around?
  - sam_bristow 5y ago
    I've seen some people doing work on this [1]. I can't remember how much was actually making the drones quieter vs doing signal processing to remove the sound from on-board audio capture. [1] https://www.dotterel.com/ https://www.dotterel.com/

lvs 5y ago

This is all because of the absurd war against the 3.5 mm jack. Bring back the jack, and I promise you this social problem will be alleviated.

brokenmachine 5y ago
But then how can they sell $20 headphones with a 1000% markup?
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Stamp a brand on it and spend most of your money on fighting counterfeits.

sudosysgen 5y ago

Unpopular opinion - I use speakers on my bicycle. I used to have a lot of problems with pedestrians not noticing me and even other bikers that were fixed by using my phone's speakers at the 80% settings and playing music on them. Think of it as my own version of the noise emitting devices on EVs. On the one hand I kind of feel like a dick but on the other hand I still make much less noise than a car and there's no other way of people knowing I'm there when they don't have LOS.

ericd 5y ago
Why not use a bike bell instead? Also, why do pedestrians need to notice you?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  A bike bell is not going to work, I don't see them. If I saw them I could always talk to them. Pedestrians need to notice me because a lot of people walk on bike paths and because a lot of people jaywalk. Since I'm much closer to the parked cars and much smaller than cars they're going to realize there's no cars, think it's all clear, and when they advance I'll be there. It happened to me often. It's not loud enough that people on the sidewalk will hear me clearly - in traffic I often can't even distinguish my own music - but people that are on my way or about to walk in front of me will notice and that's good enough. Also in my city when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk, so I like to be noticed by pedestrians so they know I'm here without ringing my bike bell non-stop or speaking to everyone and trying to get them to notice me.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Your behavior is not that different from asshole car drivers that think they own the street and are aggressive towards cyclists. It is on you to ride defensively and make sure you are on an appropriate speed to avoid accidents with pedestrians, not on them to avoid you. > when there's an underpass the law is to go on the sidewalk So, get off the bike and walk.