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Neither the client nor the server are what makes discord however. What makes discord is the community around it, and the fact that 3rd party sites have decided

by rnd0 5y ago

Neither the client nor the server are what makes discord however. What makes discord is the community around it, and the fact that 3rd party sites have decided to support it. Also there's the legal (important for edus, etc) and other support from the Discord people themselves. Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? Edus sure as heck won't -who does that leave, a couple of hackers? Maybe? A better approach would have been to: a)Not use Discord's logo in your README.Md FFS b)Build up infrastructure similar to and competitive with Discord's but FOSS oriented c)THEN after b is accomplished, work on a client and a server. Like the many reddit clones that have come and gone (and the slashdot clones before them) this will be a mouse fart into a hurricane

peanut_worm 5y ago
Did you look at the link? It is compatible with Discord.
grifball 5y ago
Lol they're using the old discord logo that got all that buzz about the slight purple color tweak.
circularfoyers 5y ago
To some extent what you're suggesting is what https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat is already attempting.
- ironmagma 5y ago
  Revolt is a nice product but as far as I'm aware they don't enable self-hosting or decentralized. It's just one big hosted hub, right?
  - DoctorOW 5y ago
    Not familiar but they seem to allow self hosting[1], as well as both the frontend[2] and backend[3] is open. [1]: https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted [2]: https://github.com/revoltchat/revite https://github.com/revoltchat/revite [3]: https://github.com/revoltchat/delta https://github.com/revoltchat/delta
    - krageon 5y ago
      Ah yes, nothing inspires confidence quite like > This is still a work-in-progress and some things may not work but for the most part everything has been tested without issue!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Shadonototra 5y ago
> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? Edus sure as heck won't -who does that leave, a couple of hackers? Maybe? they do, you need target specific group of the population, then with time (years), it spreads to other new generations that's how teamspeak died, it's userbase was aging and as a result died with time only for discord to take over
- hunterb123 5y ago
  teamspeak / mumble / skype died because users kept getting ddosed
  - Shadonototra 5y ago
    that was true for steam too, yet it still is here and stronger than ever
  - gsich 5y ago
    Maybe with Skype.
  - krageon 5y ago
    Mumble is atrocious for the end user, teamspeak is atrocious for folks running servers and end users and don't even get me started on what Skype ended up as. They really don't compare to something like Discord at all, which is a corporate hellscape but is admittedly very low barrier to entry (and more importantly just works).
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Not saying they weren't UX nightmares, but that's where people were and that's why they switched off. Communities liked TS3, there was little delay, it was private, but you had to protect your IP.
ironmagma 5y ago
> What makes discord is the community around it, and the fact that 3rd party sites have decided to support it. For FOSS projects, that really isn't a factor. The main thing is that Discord is a freely available channel that supports modern things like link previews, image uploads, voice chat, and persistent history. Slack does all these things but makes it a royal pain to join a new Slack. Why does it matter if gamers come or go? They're a totally different audience. This isn't about building the next social platform, it's about escaping control of the existing ones.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Gaming is an interesting bellwether, having birthed both Slack and Discord. I used a variety of tools for gaming communities over the years: dial-in BBS, AOL chatrooms, IRC, ICQ, AIM, forums, XMPP, and Skype. Ultimately it had to be easy to get in and coordinate effectively and often.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Moreover, in the case of video games comms, the users of the software are the customers. You don't find that with enterprise software much.
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  Slack does all these things but makes it a royal pain to join a new Slack. ... and limits your search history to 10k messages unless you pay, which is nothing for any decently sized community with a history.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    And holds them hostage, including private messages. Free Slack is just a terrible Discord
unethical_ban 5y ago
You are partially correct. Community and network effects are strong, but Discord has technical features no FOSS equivalent currently has: * One-click audio-video screensharing * One-click video conference and chatting * Emojis and inline images * Decent UI Bonus: Discord gives people the super quick option to have a hosted private server. Discord can do all this because you are the product. Sure, there is nitro, but Discord is spyware that looks at every process on your computer and I'm sure they are using/selling that data. So I believe that a client/server architecture that can do self-hosting and meet those technical requirements, could possibly bolt-on "single identity" ala Discord. Does Matrix support instant screenshare/video chat rooms?
- yosito 5y ago
  > Discord is spyware that looks at every process on your computer and I'm sure they are using/selling that data Is there solid evidence that supports this, or are you saying it based on intuition?
  - georgyo 5y ago
    Not evidence that they are selling or even collecting this data, but discord _must_ look at the process and/or window table periodically to know when you are playing a video game so it can give you the one click stream button.
  - nawgz 5y ago
    What do you think free apps do to make money? Especially one which is hosting real-time communications? There's a reason they shove the app down your throat even though the website works perfectly...
    - wheybags 5y ago
      They sell premium subscriptions
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Personally, suspicion. The other two comments combined cover it: Discord does look at all your processes to see if you're playing games, and having not read the EULA but knowing how "free" apps that cost money to operate work, I assume they are doing some kind of analytics and selling that data.
jeffwask 5y ago
I would leave Discord in a hot second for a client that just did that basics discord used to do before they became a platform.
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  And how! Every time I login (have multiple accounts), I have to repeatedly tell Discord that I’m not a student and not interested in their scholastic channels. The UI is really in-your-face constantly. Has my account already viewed this tutorial? Yes. Save that info forever and stop bugging me. I will be switching.
  - movedx 5y ago
    I use about 15 servers and run my own server that's 1,500 strong. Never have I experienced the issues you're facing. I use the desktop and mobile clients daily. Literally all day. You have a local problem there and need to reach out to support.
    - msoucy 5y ago
      Discord support is notoriously bad - not responding to issues in a timely manner, and being obtuse with the information they give.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      Do you actually log out and log in every day or do you just leave it signed into one account?
      - movedx 5y ago
        Why would I login and logout every day?
      - fragmede 5y ago
        Chrome and Firefox, at least, have profiles which allow users to be signed into discord under different accounts, simultaneously.
shkkmo 5y ago
> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? There are several reasons, based on personal experience with discord's limitations, why some gamer would switch. 1) Lack of accessibility. It is very hard to include deaf people in voice chats. 2) Lack of advanced voice capabilities. There is no way to setup channels where there talkers that are only heard by a subset of listeners. If you are using discord voice to coordinate large groups of players it can be extremely hard to manage. 3) Lack of Bot developer support. There are significant issues with how Discord has developed their APIs and how they treat 3rs party developers. 4) Censorship. Many gamers are irreverant / bot PC and the centralized nature if Discord pretty much guarantees that Discord will eventually face issues with moderation and censorship that will drive people elsewhere. If Fosscord can keep (feature complete) client interoperability while adding additional features for self-hosted servers, there is a decent chance that a significant minority would move to Fosscord. I would expect that if such starts to actually happen, Discord will do everything they can to put legal and technical roadblocks in the way of Fosscord.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  #2, they've enhanced voice channel services for large events and there's been a "god mode" voice button (ie everyone else is turned down and God is full volume) #3, there's way more discord bots than for any other platform and they're way more useful #4 is pretty funny given people have been screaming at Discord for years that they have a lot of child porn, right-wing political extremist and white supremacist groups - including servers that exist for the sole purpose of coordinating attacks on LGBTQ community servers - and Discord has just shrugged and said "we don't have the resources to police it."
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    > there's been a "god mode" voice button That doesn't accomplish what I am describing. For example, suppose you want several squads that can coordinate among themselves but also still hear the overall commander, there is no way to accomplish this. > there's way more discord bots than for any other platform and they're way more useful There's also been a lot of developer goodwill that's been burnt over the years and a thus reason to believe that 3rd party developers could help accelerate the move to an open source discord compatible ecosystem. > pretty funny given people have been screaming at Discord for years that they have... Which is precisely why more and more moderation from a centralized provider like Discord is inevitable.
Springtime 5y ago
> Neither the client nor the server are what makes discord however... What makes discord is the community around it... Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have Just on this, most Discord mentions I've come across on HN describe how the user experience is what separates it from the competition and I'd agree. The networking effect across communities doesn't seem anywhere near as strong as traditional social media where one might argue it's what keeps users retained. Few I've observed in the years I've been on Discord seem to care or recognize who someone is across 'servers' (Discord meaning), which is made less obvious by the encouraged feature of changing handles/avatars across communities to maintain quasi-distinct identities (even across related gaming chat). It's also not uncommon for some users block all PMs and friend requests from communities merely due to spam issues. The communities using it that I've experienced are often doing so since it's the most convenient service for their purposes. Users can join with invites without signing up (a la IRC, traditionally), supports inline attachments (acting as an all-in-one image/video/file host), includes persistent, easily searchable message logs and just as importantly is all free. A decent number of the communities I've encountered (ranging from software, subreddit/forum chat, game modding, media creation) could migrate elsewhere if there was an alternative suitable for their own needs. A number of them have migrated from other platforms before and one of the gaming-related ones even discussed potential future alternatives. If anything the self-hosted aspect would be the main drawback to a Discord-equivalent alternative (ie: the costs, maintenance).
- resonious 5y ago
  I'll second this. I started using Discord solely because all of the alternatives (Skype, teamspeak, mumble, google, ...) were so bad at the time. And when I say "bad" I specifically mean the UX and the quality/stability of service. Discord had good quality service and it was extremely easy for non-technical people to use, and so for me and my friends who talked online a lot, we naturally just tried it out and then stayed because it continued to be good.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    I think Element is pretty great for non-technical people, too. My girlfriend and I are using it and she is not very technical.
biryani_chicken 5y ago
> What makes discord is the community around it Which means I could swap clients and still participate in the same community, which seems to be what this project is about.
sb057 5y ago
The very first bullet point states that it has Discord compatibility. Also, that isn't Discord's logo. I'm not sure if it's "legally distinct" enough, but it isn't stolen.
noobermin 5y ago
> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? This is incorrect on very clear, unambiguous history. quakenet was fine but all the kids were on discord so left we did. I still hate discord because where it fails is specifically because it isn't FOSS (or at least, with a public protocol), for example, lack of ability to save chats like you could with IRC.
- maverwa 5y ago
  The point is that they will not leave discord for „a FOSS discord“ because they‘d gain nothing. For the average user, discord won because it had a lot of features and properties that where better than what was there before (voice & chat combined, not server management, etc). You and me might care about software being FOSS all day long, but the masses don’t. For them it’s just not a thing. I‘d guess „selfhosted servers“ actually is a step backward for the majority of discord users.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
herbst 5y ago
> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? Maybe everyone else, who never felt home in that weird gaming platform, would.
dmos62 5y ago
If I found something better than Discord for gaming (less bloated, more FOSS, better microphone filtering), me and my friends would switch over-night. That said we don't dependent on any wider gaming community hubs on Discord, we just play with each other.

by rnd0 5y ago

peanut_worm 5y ago

Did you look at the link? It is compatible with Discord.

grifball 5y ago

Lol they're using the old discord logo that got all that buzz about the slight purple color tweak.

circularfoyers 5y ago

To some extent what you're suggesting is what https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat is already attempting.

ironmagma 5y ago
Revolt is a nice product but as far as I'm aware they don't enable self-hosting or decentralized. It's just one big hosted hub, right?
- DoctorOW 5y ago
  Not familiar but they seem to allow self hosting[1], as well as both the frontend[2] and backend[3] is open. [1]: https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted [2]: https://github.com/revoltchat/revite https://github.com/revoltchat/revite [3]: https://github.com/revoltchat/delta https://github.com/revoltchat/delta
  - krageon 5y ago
    Ah yes, nothing inspires confidence quite like > This is still a work-in-progress and some things may not work but for the most part everything has been tested without issue!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Shadonototra 5y ago

> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? Edus sure as heck won't -who does that leave, a couple of hackers? Maybe? they do, you need target specific group of the population, then with time (years), it spreads to other new generations that's how teamspeak died, it's userbase was aging and as a result died with time only for discord to take over

hunterb123 5y ago
teamspeak / mumble / skype died because users kept getting ddosed
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  that was true for steam too, yet it still is here and stronger than ever
- gsich 5y ago
  Maybe with Skype.
- krageon 5y ago
  Mumble is atrocious for the end user, teamspeak is atrocious for folks running servers and end users and don't even get me started on what Skype ended up as. They really don't compare to something like Discord at all, which is a corporate hellscape but is admittedly very low barrier to entry (and more importantly just works).
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Not saying they weren't UX nightmares, but that's where people were and that's why they switched off. Communities liked TS3, there was little delay, it was private, but you had to protect your IP.

ironmagma 5y ago

> What makes discord is the community around it, and the fact that 3rd party sites have decided to support it. For FOSS projects, that really isn't a factor. The main thing is that Discord is a freely available channel that supports modern things like link previews, image uploads, voice chat, and persistent history. Slack does all these things but makes it a royal pain to join a new Slack. Why does it matter if gamers come or go? They're a totally different audience. This isn't about building the next social platform, it's about escaping control of the existing ones.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Gaming is an interesting bellwether, having birthed both Slack and Discord. I used a variety of tools for gaming communities over the years: dial-in BBS, AOL chatrooms, IRC, ICQ, AIM, forums, XMPP, and Skype. Ultimately it had to be easy to get in and coordinate effectively and often.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Moreover, in the case of video games comms, the users of the software are the customers. You don't find that with enterprise software much.
d3nj4l 5y ago
Slack does all these things but makes it a royal pain to join a new Slack. ... and limits your search history to 10k messages unless you pay, which is nothing for any decently sized community with a history.
- mavhc 5y ago
  And holds them hostage, including private messages. Free Slack is just a terrible Discord

unethical_ban 5y ago

You are partially correct. Community and network effects are strong, but Discord has technical features no FOSS equivalent currently has: * One-click audio-video screensharing * One-click video conference and chatting * Emojis and inline images * Decent UI Bonus: Discord gives people the super quick option to have a hosted private server. Discord can do all this because you are the product. Sure, there is nitro, but Discord is spyware that looks at every process on your computer and I'm sure they are using/selling that data. So I believe that a client/server architecture that can do self-hosting and meet those technical requirements, could possibly bolt-on "single identity" ala Discord. Does Matrix support instant screenshare/video chat rooms?

yosito 5y ago
> Discord is spyware that looks at every process on your computer and I'm sure they are using/selling that data Is there solid evidence that supports this, or are you saying it based on intuition?
- georgyo 5y ago
  Not evidence that they are selling or even collecting this data, but discord _must_ look at the process and/or window table periodically to know when you are playing a video game so it can give you the one click stream button.
- nawgz 5y ago
  What do you think free apps do to make money? Especially one which is hosting real-time communications? There's a reason they shove the app down your throat even though the website works perfectly...
  - wheybags 5y ago
    They sell premium subscriptions
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Personally, suspicion. The other two comments combined cover it: Discord does look at all your processes to see if you're playing games, and having not read the EULA but knowing how "free" apps that cost money to operate work, I assume they are doing some kind of analytics and selling that data.

jeffwask 5y ago

I would leave Discord in a hot second for a client that just did that basics discord used to do before they became a platform.

yepthatsreality 5y ago
And how! Every time I login (have multiple accounts), I have to repeatedly tell Discord that I’m not a student and not interested in their scholastic channels. The UI is really in-your-face constantly. Has my account already viewed this tutorial? Yes. Save that info forever and stop bugging me. I will be switching.
- movedx 5y ago
  I use about 15 servers and run my own server that's 1,500 strong. Never have I experienced the issues you're facing. I use the desktop and mobile clients daily. Literally all day. You have a local problem there and need to reach out to support.
  - msoucy 5y ago
    Discord support is notoriously bad - not responding to issues in a timely manner, and being obtuse with the information they give.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    Do you actually log out and log in every day or do you just leave it signed into one account?
    - movedx 5y ago
      Why would I login and logout every day?
    - fragmede 5y ago
      Chrome and Firefox, at least, have profiles which allow users to be signed into discord under different accounts, simultaneously.

shkkmo 5y ago

> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? There are several reasons, based on personal experience with discord's limitations, why some gamer would switch. 1) Lack of accessibility. It is very hard to include deaf people in voice chats. 2) Lack of advanced voice capabilities. There is no way to setup channels where there talkers that are only heard by a subset of listeners. If you are using discord voice to coordinate large groups of players it can be extremely hard to manage. 3) Lack of Bot developer support. There are significant issues with how Discord has developed their APIs and how they treat 3rs party developers. 4) Censorship. Many gamers are irreverant / bot PC and the centralized nature if Discord pretty much guarantees that Discord will eventually face issues with moderation and censorship that will drive people elsewhere. If Fosscord can keep (feature complete) client interoperability while adding additional features for self-hosted servers, there is a decent chance that a significant minority would move to Fosscord. I would expect that if such starts to actually happen, Discord will do everything they can to put legal and technical roadblocks in the way of Fosscord.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
#2, they've enhanced voice channel services for large events and there's been a "god mode" voice button (ie everyone else is turned down and God is full volume) #3, there's way more discord bots than for any other platform and they're way more useful #4 is pretty funny given people have been screaming at Discord for years that they have a lot of child porn, right-wing political extremist and white supremacist groups - including servers that exist for the sole purpose of coordinating attacks on LGBTQ community servers - and Discord has just shrugged and said "we don't have the resources to police it."
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > there's been a "god mode" voice button That doesn't accomplish what I am describing. For example, suppose you want several squads that can coordinate among themselves but also still hear the overall commander, there is no way to accomplish this. > there's way more discord bots than for any other platform and they're way more useful There's also been a lot of developer goodwill that's been burnt over the years and a thus reason to believe that 3rd party developers could help accelerate the move to an open source discord compatible ecosystem. > pretty funny given people have been screaming at Discord for years that they have... Which is precisely why more and more moderation from a centralized provider like Discord is inevitable.

Springtime 5y ago

> Neither the client nor the server are what makes discord however... What makes discord is the community around it... Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have Just on this, most Discord mentions I've come across on HN describe how the user experience is what separates it from the competition and I'd agree. The networking effect across communities doesn't seem anywhere near as strong as traditional social media where one might argue it's what keeps users retained. Few I've observed in the years I've been on Discord seem to care or recognize who someone is across 'servers' (Discord meaning), which is made less obvious by the encouraged feature of changing handles/avatars across communities to maintain quasi-distinct identities (even across related gaming chat). It's also not uncommon for some users block all PMs and friend requests from communities merely due to spam issues. The communities using it that I've experienced are often doing so since it's the most convenient service for their purposes. Users can join with invites without signing up (a la IRC, traditionally), supports inline attachments (acting as an all-in-one image/video/file host), includes persistent, easily searchable message logs and just as importantly is all free. A decent number of the communities I've encountered (ranging from software, subreddit/forum chat, game modding, media creation) could migrate elsewhere if there was an alternative suitable for their own needs. A number of them have migrated from other platforms before and one of the gaming-related ones even discussed potential future alternatives. If anything the self-hosted aspect would be the main drawback to a Discord-equivalent alternative (ie: the costs, maintenance).

resonious 5y ago
I'll second this. I started using Discord solely because all of the alternatives (Skype, teamspeak, mumble, google, ...) were so bad at the time. And when I say "bad" I specifically mean the UX and the quality/stability of service. Discord had good quality service and it was extremely easy for non-technical people to use, and so for me and my friends who talked online a lot, we naturally just tried it out and then stayed because it continued to be good.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  I think Element is pretty great for non-technical people, too. My girlfriend and I are using it and she is not very technical.

biryani_chicken 5y ago

> What makes discord is the community around it Which means I could swap clients and still participate in the same community, which seems to be what this project is about.

sb057 5y ago

The very first bullet point states that it has Discord compatibility. Also, that isn't Discord's logo. I'm not sure if it's "legally distinct" enough, but it isn't stolen.

noobermin 5y ago

> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? This is incorrect on very clear, unambiguous history. quakenet was fine but all the kids were on discord so left we did. I still hate discord because where it fails is specifically because it isn't FOSS (or at least, with a public protocol), for example, lack of ability to save chats like you could with IRC.

maverwa 5y ago
The point is that they will not leave discord for „a FOSS discord“ because they‘d gain nothing. For the average user, discord won because it had a lot of features and properties that where better than what was there before (voice & chat combined, not server management, etc). You and me might care about software being FOSS all day long, but the masses don’t. For them it’s just not a thing. I‘d guess „selfhosted servers“ actually is a step backward for the majority of discord users.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

herbst 5y ago

> Gamers aren't going to leave what they already have -why would they? Maybe everyone else, who never felt home in that weird gaming platform, would.

dmos62 5y ago

If I found something better than Discord for gaming (less bloated, more FOSS, better microphone filtering), me and my friends would switch over-night. That said we don't dependent on any wider gaming community hubs on Discord, we just play with each other.