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Last week one of my employees quit. He got himself a job well over what I could afford paying. He was really not sure if he should go and was feeling very uncom

by zaat 5y ago

Last week one of my employees quit. He got himself a job well over what I could afford paying. He was really not sure if he should go and was feeling very uncomfortable since we were so good with him and invested in him so much, which is all true. I told him that I would be very happy if he stay but I can't ask him to, and that he lives his life for himself, not for me, and that as general rule he should never put his employer interest before his own. He decided to leave, but felt very uncomfortable with it and felt he had to justify it to me and explain his move. I tried to ask him firmly never to do it, since there are people out there who would exploit innocent employees in similar position. You should never justify leaving a company, if you feel like quitting will be better for you just do it. Employment should always be mutual benefit deal, and just like a company would let you go if employing you isn't beneficial anymore you should leave without too much hesitation if its for your own benefit. I'm not saying you should be ungrateful ass, but you should put yourself first in your consideration, most probably nobody else would.

chrismcb 5y ago
The fact that you were good to him, and he probably enjoyed his job, makes it a difficult decision. Make more money and take in the unknown, it stay where it feels warm and fuzzy.
refurb 5y ago
When I told my boss I was going back to school to support a career change his response was “smart fucking move”. As a manager always put your people before the company. That’s what good managers do.
xupybd 5y ago
You sound like a great boss.
- zaat 5y ago
  I had a few terrible bosses as an example of what not to do. Honestly, I wasn't really happy with the guy performance. I do need him now, but if he wouldn't be quitting I probably would let him go, sooner or later, when I found someone with better attitude and skills. I would feel terrible with myself if I he would pass an opportunity being loyal to the company only to be shown the door few months after. I prefer to work with happy people who want to work where they do, and to achieve these you have to take care of your employees.
  - jamiepenney 5y ago
    > I had a few terrible bosses as an example of what not to do For this reason, I think the best leaders come from below.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - yardie 5y ago
    > I told him that I would be very happy if he stay But, > Honestly, I wasn't really happy with the guy performance. Honestly, I feel like this is the neuroses most companies operate under. They want you there, unless they find someone just slightly better. Then they'll immediately show you the door. Kids, this is a prime example why you should show absolutely no loyalty. If there is a better offer on deck absolutely take it. The guilt washes away once you turn in your access card.
    - Kranar 5y ago
      Eh this thinking is way too one-sided. Assume your boss is right and your performance is not as good as what would be expected of someone earning your salary... you might manage to jump ship to another company earning more money but that does not mean you will be able to keep your higher paying job for a particularly long time. If there is a better offer on deck, and you know your skillset well enough to really know that you're worth it, then absolutely go for it. But if there's a better offer on deck and you have performance issues, then you may be trading in long term benefit for a short term benefit and substantially increasing your risk. It's not as simple as you're making it seem, where an offer for more money comes up and you should just jump on it as if the only factor to consider is guilt.
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Did you let him know his performance was not good? I'm always paranoid that my bosses think that way and hate to think they might be unhappy but not saying anything.
    - projektfu 5y ago
exolymph 5y ago
It's so important to teach juniors, in any field, that it's just business. Dealing with problems like short staffing is why the company employs managers. Only assholes are personally offended when someone jumps ship for a raise (or any other reason). There are def assholes out there, but thankfully they aren't the majority in my experience.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  > that it's just business The really sad thing is that I've found myself teaching this to people who have been in industry for 30+ years. People are really good at coming up with justifications for why they shouldn't just quit.
- mooreds 5y ago
  > it's just business Hear hear! I am not a hiring manager any more, but when I was, I wanted every developer to feel free to find the best spot for them. I was hoping it would be working for me, but sometimes it wasn't. If they realized it first, they left. If I realized it first, I worked with them to try to correct the issues, but sometimes they needed to go. (Having been on both sides of this situation, please make sure you treat everyone with as much compassion as humanly and legally possible.) > Dealing with problems like short staffing is why the company employs managers. Agreed. It isn't your job, as an employee, to be worried about how your job responsibilities will be taken care of when you are gone. Do a good job when you are there, give your two weeks (or whatever is customary) and move on. The honest truth is, either the job will get taken over by someone else or it wasn't as important as you thought. I've never had a company call me in 6 months and say "we need you to come back now, the ship is falling apart". Nor, before you impugn my abilities :) , have I ever seen that happen for anyone in my two decades. Sometimes I think because the work we (software devs) do is so esoteric and can be disconnected from people, we trick ourselves into thinking it is critical work and requires us to pour our whole lives into it. Screw that. That level of commitment is for founders. Do an honest day's work for an honest wage.
musicale 5y ago
> Employment should always be mutual benefit deal, and just like a company would let you go if employing you isn't beneficial anymore you should leave without too much hesitation if its for your own benefit. This is a good recommendation overall. Loyalty to a company is foolish, because the company has no loyalty to you. For better or (probably) for worse, the mutual benefit/harm is ridiculously asymmetric in employment relationships, and there are also externalities. The human dimensions of laying employees off mean that you are simultaneously destroying their livelihood, dissolving most of their day-to-day friendships, and lowering their social status to the near-bottom rung of "unemployed." On the other hand, when an employee leaves a (large) company it usually has minimal effect on the company in terms of survival prospects, social relationships, or status – and the company isn't a person anyway. There is also a third party involved - coworkers. They may suffer when an employee leaves (though rarely they benefit) but it's an externality to the employer-employee contract. I expect some people may hesitate to leave because they know it will harm the people they currently work with.
- boplicity 5y ago
  > Loyalty to a company is foolish, because the company has no loyalty to you. Note, this is not necessarily true. For example, Japan's conglomerates are largely based on long-term loyalty. I don't remember which business book it was -- one of those MBA type studies of successful businesses -- but one of the key take-a-ways that always stuck with me was that the most successful companies are the ones that are loyal to their employees, and have earned that loyalty. If any employee believes you'll have their back for the rest of their careers, then they'll act very differently, then if an employee feels that their job is just a "job", even if it is a good one.
  - setr 5y ago
    It used to be true in US tech as well — you started with IBM, and you died in IBM. Loyalty was mutual — though in the end, everyone will still work towards their own self-interests… and a companies’ path to self-interest is much more far-reaching and callously achieved than you could ever hope to achieve. It’s only with Silicon Valley did tech go so heavy with job-hopping — 2 year terms being the norm. And with the lack of loyalty to the company, so it goes back unto the employee (e.g. training a resource is a futile endeavor — he’ll probably leave once trained.. so look instead to make him useful, and if he learns, it’s incidental). Which furthers the weird pseudo-credentialism we see today (where credentials are required for everything, but everyone assumes you still don’t actually know the subject) — if you can’t know someone’s skill set by working with them, and you don’t know them by reference… credentials are the next best thing — even if they’re not much.
riccardomc 5y ago
Just dropping you a line to say that you sound like a good man.

by zaat 5y ago

chrismcb 5y ago

The fact that you were good to him, and he probably enjoyed his job, makes it a difficult decision. Make more money and take in the unknown, it stay where it feels warm and fuzzy.

refurb 5y ago

When I told my boss I was going back to school to support a career change his response was “smart fucking move”. As a manager always put your people before the company. That’s what good managers do.

xupybd 5y ago

You sound like a great boss.

zaat 5y ago
I had a few terrible bosses as an example of what not to do. Honestly, I wasn't really happy with the guy performance. I do need him now, but if he wouldn't be quitting I probably would let him go, sooner or later, when I found someone with better attitude and skills. I would feel terrible with myself if I he would pass an opportunity being loyal to the company only to be shown the door few months after. I prefer to work with happy people who want to work where they do, and to achieve these you have to take care of your employees.
- jamiepenney 5y ago
  > I had a few terrible bosses as an example of what not to do For this reason, I think the best leaders come from below.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yardie 5y ago
  > I told him that I would be very happy if he stay But, > Honestly, I wasn't really happy with the guy performance. Honestly, I feel like this is the neuroses most companies operate under. They want you there, unless they find someone just slightly better. Then they'll immediately show you the door. Kids, this is a prime example why you should show absolutely no loyalty. If there is a better offer on deck absolutely take it. The guilt washes away once you turn in your access card.
  - Kranar 5y ago
    Eh this thinking is way too one-sided. Assume your boss is right and your performance is not as good as what would be expected of someone earning your salary... you might manage to jump ship to another company earning more money but that does not mean you will be able to keep your higher paying job for a particularly long time. If there is a better offer on deck, and you know your skillset well enough to really know that you're worth it, then absolutely go for it. But if there's a better offer on deck and you have performance issues, then you may be trading in long term benefit for a short term benefit and substantially increasing your risk. It's not as simple as you're making it seem, where an offer for more money comes up and you should just jump on it as if the only factor to consider is guilt.
- xupybd 5y ago
  Did you let him know his performance was not good? I'm always paranoid that my bosses think that way and hate to think they might be unhappy but not saying anything.
  - projektfu 5y ago

exolymph 5y ago

It's so important to teach juniors, in any field, that it's just business. Dealing with problems like short staffing is why the company employs managers. Only assholes are personally offended when someone jumps ship for a raise (or any other reason). There are def assholes out there, but thankfully they aren't the majority in my experience.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
> that it's just business The really sad thing is that I've found myself teaching this to people who have been in industry for 30+ years. People are really good at coming up with justifications for why they shouldn't just quit.
mooreds 5y ago
> it's just business Hear hear! I am not a hiring manager any more, but when I was, I wanted every developer to feel free to find the best spot for them. I was hoping it would be working for me, but sometimes it wasn't. If they realized it first, they left. If I realized it first, I worked with them to try to correct the issues, but sometimes they needed to go. (Having been on both sides of this situation, please make sure you treat everyone with as much compassion as humanly and legally possible.) > Dealing with problems like short staffing is why the company employs managers. Agreed. It isn't your job, as an employee, to be worried about how your job responsibilities will be taken care of when you are gone. Do a good job when you are there, give your two weeks (or whatever is customary) and move on. The honest truth is, either the job will get taken over by someone else or it wasn't as important as you thought. I've never had a company call me in 6 months and say "we need you to come back now, the ship is falling apart". Nor, before you impugn my abilities :) , have I ever seen that happen for anyone in my two decades. Sometimes I think because the work we (software devs) do is so esoteric and can be disconnected from people, we trick ourselves into thinking it is critical work and requires us to pour our whole lives into it. Screw that. That level of commitment is for founders. Do an honest day's work for an honest wage.

musicale 5y ago

> Employment should always be mutual benefit deal, and just like a company would let you go if employing you isn't beneficial anymore you should leave without too much hesitation if its for your own benefit. This is a good recommendation overall. Loyalty to a company is foolish, because the company has no loyalty to you. For better or (probably) for worse, the mutual benefit/harm is ridiculously asymmetric in employment relationships, and there are also externalities. The human dimensions of laying employees off mean that you are simultaneously destroying their livelihood, dissolving most of their day-to-day friendships, and lowering their social status to the near-bottom rung of "unemployed." On the other hand, when an employee leaves a (large) company it usually has minimal effect on the company in terms of survival prospects, social relationships, or status – and the company isn't a person anyway. There is also a third party involved - coworkers. They may suffer when an employee leaves (though rarely they benefit) but it's an externality to the employer-employee contract. I expect some people may hesitate to leave because they know it will harm the people they currently work with.

boplicity 5y ago
> Loyalty to a company is foolish, because the company has no loyalty to you. Note, this is not necessarily true. For example, Japan's conglomerates are largely based on long-term loyalty. I don't remember which business book it was -- one of those MBA type studies of successful businesses -- but one of the key take-a-ways that always stuck with me was that the most successful companies are the ones that are loyal to their employees, and have earned that loyalty. If any employee believes you'll have their back for the rest of their careers, then they'll act very differently, then if an employee feels that their job is just a "job", even if it is a good one.
- setr 5y ago
  It used to be true in US tech as well — you started with IBM, and you died in IBM. Loyalty was mutual — though in the end, everyone will still work towards their own self-interests… and a companies’ path to self-interest is much more far-reaching and callously achieved than you could ever hope to achieve. It’s only with Silicon Valley did tech go so heavy with job-hopping — 2 year terms being the norm. And with the lack of loyalty to the company, so it goes back unto the employee (e.g. training a resource is a futile endeavor — he’ll probably leave once trained.. so look instead to make him useful, and if he learns, it’s incidental). Which furthers the weird pseudo-credentialism we see today (where credentials are required for everything, but everyone assumes you still don’t actually know the subject) — if you can’t know someone’s skill set by working with them, and you don’t know them by reference… credentials are the next best thing — even if they’re not much.

riccardomc 5y ago

Just dropping you a line to say that you sound like a good man.