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Scott Alexander of Astral Codex Ten (formerly Slate Star Codex) wrote a piece on this topic as well: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/please-dont-give-up-o

by mawise 5y ago

Scott Alexander of Astral Codex Ten (formerly Slate Star Codex) wrote a piece on this topic as well: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/please-dont-give-up-on-having-kids https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/please-dont-give-up-on...

WithinReason 5y ago
He also has a nice table about all kinds of personal carbon costs (like having children): https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/carbon-costs-quantified https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/carbon-costs-quantifie...
- thatfrenchguy 5y ago
  First time I see a table about having children that is not assuming your kids and the next 20 generations will have the same CO2 emissions as you, interesting :)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jnsaff2 5y ago
I don't find his reasoning terribly convincing though. First part boils down to the classic catholic strategy of "outbreed the enemy" with handwavy reasoning along the lines "worst things are not going to be happen to first world peoples". Some cherry picked factoids sprinkled here and there like sea level rise in SF and NYC. Total red herring. In Europe we already saw the migration crisis from Syria and how it was a great polarizing tool. There is no border wall that can be built (let alone be moral in any shape or form) to keep out billions of starving and misplaced from the global south and keep us in the first world nice any cozy. Then the part about the carbon cost of raising children goes to the tehcno-utopian realm of carbon capture with some really optimistic dollar numbers. I'm 40 and probably going to have kids, but if I were young I'd totally hold older generations feet to the fire and tell governments: "fuck you, if you don't get your shit together and start doing something meaningful about the climate catastrophe, I'm not going to have kids".
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  "There is no border wall that can be built (let alone be moral in any shape or form) to keep out billions of starving and misplaced from the global south and keep us in the first world nice any cozy." What exactly makes this so immoral? Edit: The border itself.
  - jnsaff2 5y ago
    The part where most of the per-capita CO2 is emitted by the first world which is not going to give up gadgets nor consumption and the cult of GDP and most of the misery is off-shored to the global south.
  - WitCanStain 5y ago
    How are you going to keep out a mass of starving people? By shooting them? Because that's pretty much your only option once people get desperate enough.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    The part where you externalize the consequences of your behavior onto someone else at an existential (for them) scale and then shoot them when they try to keep existing.
- Qub3d 5y ago
  Its interesting. My oldest sibling is turning 30 this year and they are very concerned about climate change and the world their kids may someday inherit. Meanwhile a friend younger than me is trying to have her first kid. The fear is there but not evenly distributed. I personally am a bit of an antinatalist, at least to the degree that I feel its irresponsible to be having new kids while an overloaded foster care system still has children in need of parents.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  > I'm 40 and probably going to have kids My children are pushing 30. With everything that's going on, and how dark the future looks, it's rare that a day goes by that I don't wonder if I did them a disservice by having them.

by mawise 5y ago

WithinReason 5y ago

He also has a nice table about all kinds of personal carbon costs (like having children): https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/carbon-costs-quantified https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/carbon-costs-quantifie...

thatfrenchguy 5y ago
First time I see a table about having children that is not assuming your kids and the next 20 generations will have the same CO2 emissions as you, interesting :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jnsaff2 5y ago

I don't find his reasoning terribly convincing though. First part boils down to the classic catholic strategy of "outbreed the enemy" with handwavy reasoning along the lines "worst things are not going to be happen to first world peoples". Some cherry picked factoids sprinkled here and there like sea level rise in SF and NYC. Total red herring. In Europe we already saw the migration crisis from Syria and how it was a great polarizing tool. There is no border wall that can be built (let alone be moral in any shape or form) to keep out billions of starving and misplaced from the global south and keep us in the first world nice any cozy. Then the part about the carbon cost of raising children goes to the tehcno-utopian realm of carbon capture with some really optimistic dollar numbers. I'm 40 and probably going to have kids, but if I were young I'd totally hold older generations feet to the fire and tell governments: "fuck you, if you don't get your shit together and start doing something meaningful about the climate catastrophe, I'm not going to have kids".

BitwiseFool 5y ago
"There is no border wall that can be built (let alone be moral in any shape or form) to keep out billions of starving and misplaced from the global south and keep us in the first world nice any cozy." What exactly makes this so immoral? Edit: The border itself.
- jnsaff2 5y ago
  The part where most of the per-capita CO2 is emitted by the first world which is not going to give up gadgets nor consumption and the cult of GDP and most of the misery is off-shored to the global south.
- WitCanStain 5y ago
  How are you going to keep out a mass of starving people? By shooting them? Because that's pretty much your only option once people get desperate enough.
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  The part where you externalize the consequences of your behavior onto someone else at an existential (for them) scale and then shoot them when they try to keep existing.
Qub3d 5y ago
Its interesting. My oldest sibling is turning 30 this year and they are very concerned about climate change and the world their kids may someday inherit. Meanwhile a friend younger than me is trying to have her first kid. The fear is there but not evenly distributed. I personally am a bit of an antinatalist, at least to the degree that I feel its irresponsible to be having new kids while an overloaded foster care system still has children in need of parents.
JohnFen 5y ago
> I'm 40 and probably going to have kids My children are pushing 30. With everything that's going on, and how dark the future looks, it's rare that a day goes by that I don't wonder if I did them a disservice by having them.