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California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers
- giantg2 5y agoI'm guessing this also affects ultralight aircraft (offroad small engine). It would be nice if CA is going to pursue this if they could also make a push to increase the FAA allowed weight limit to 300lbs (equivalent of 254 lbs empty + 5 gal fuel, not counting ballistic parachute). Battery weight makes it tricky to meet the weight limit.
- ddingus 5y agoPerhaps there can be a different fuel? Phase these things out in a reasonable way? That's a lot of gear needing to be replaced, and in many cases, replaced with far less effective equipment.
- WhisperingShiba 5y agoOnly the sale of mowers are banned, I presume you can still use your old equipment until you have to replace it from wear.
- atonse 5y agoI haven’t read the law but usually these bans are announced ahead of time and are bans on purchases of new equipment. So they do result in gradual phase outs. I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too. Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.
- bombcar 5y agoWhat is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?
- LatinAmerican 5y agoThe definition was shaped to promote Tesla battery car purchases. Until recently, Tesla had its HQ in California, I asume the deals with local politicians still stand.
- Ekaros 5y agoEthanol? Actually probably isn't even that much more expensive to run. I think reasonably we could already find suitable alternative and then somehow brand it zero emission or net zero...
- LatinAmerican 5y agoEthanol is an hydrocarbon that has to be burned into CO2. Chemical reaction wise difference is, as an alcohol, it produces water as a residue, too.
- bombcar 5y agoI love how they decide when and where “carbon” is an emission or not …
- ddingus 5y agoIt does. People can work through all that reasonably.
- chrisbigelow 5y agoIt's banning the sale of new equipment
- irrational 5y agoAre we going to see a Home Depot right across the border at every major highway (just like you do between Oregon and Washington)?
- moocowtruck 5y agosounds like the most reasonable thing to do
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- brianwawok 5y agoMaybe, but there clearly will be less. People are lazy, and aren’t going to go through this much work. See incandescent light bulbs. Most people bought over LED before the ban. You can buy them from China still, but most people don’t. So in the end it wins without doing some kind of crazy enforcement,
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoIncandescents are engineered to have a short life. Abandoning them is a no brainier. Gas power equipment still has endurance and power that eclipses electric alternatives.
- short12 5y agoIt wasnt a no brainer for the tremendous amount of people bitching about that ban
- brianwawok 5y agoThey also cost less and provide more total light. Wasn’t a no brainer for all the people that fought for it. My landscapers work 12 hour days. How would they charge a battery mower 10+ times? It’s fine for a homeowner but not so great for a pro
- hannob 5y agoThe ban is for new sales, not for existing equipment.
- NaturalPhallacy 5y agoPortland banned leafblowers...by city employees. So all the private companies out there are still making everyone miserable at least once a week. Such obnoxious machines.
- asdff 5y agoLA banned leaf blowers years ago near residences but you couldn't tell because LAPD can't be bothered to enforce laws like this.
- bob1029 5y agoI agree with all of this simply on grounds of noise pollution. My neighbor had been running a fucking 2 stroke pressure washer engine all weekend. I'm sure he thinks he's being helpful cleaning all that concrete that people drive on, but it's hell to live next to. At what point do you get to call the cops on someone for this?
- ericbarrett 5y agoEvery city I lived in in California (NorCal and SoCal) already banned use of gasoline-powered gardening equipment. But none of them ever enforced it.
- jet_32951 5y agoBerkeley was getting pretty aggressive with their ICE leaf blower enforcement last time I visited, which led me to wonder what happens when gardeners start buying ICE generators and plugging AC electric equipment into those. AFAICT these laws don't affect that.
- bob1029 5y ago> ICE generators These can be made to be far quieter than the engine strapped to a human's back. A truck-bound genset can weigh 2000lbs+ no problem, which means it can house the same engine you would see in a honda civic, along with all of the same emissions and noise control devices. Many new work trucks (F150 electric-only, for instance) output 240v, which would be more than enough to run a wide range of yard equipment (at the same time). Alternatively, I'll agree that my yard guys can plug into my outside power outlets when they are doing the yard. I'll even let them plug in for my neighbor's yard too, if its more convenient for them. This level of intermittent use is negligible on someone's bill.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y ago>At what point do you get to call the cops on someone for this? Hopefully some time after you have a polite discussion with them about it.
- TedShiller 5y agoHow to get around the paywall: in UBlockOrigin, select Block element, select the annoying paywall popup, Create in UBlock, then print the page in your browser (don't actually print), you can read the website in your print dialog.
- riffic 5y agothere are browser extensions that circumvent paywalls too. Your browser just downloaded the article's text anyways.
- chenster 5y agoTotally second this but on a different ground. It's simply the noise it makes. Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.. It made our already dismal lockdown, stay-at-home life even more despised! We are in dire need of much quieter neighborhood leaf blower.
- AlbertCory 5y agoAddendum: also need to ban children playing outside. They make so much damned noise.
- chenster 5y agosure, if they only make as much as what the leaf blowers make!
- asdff 5y agoIf they are under 10 years old and play outside they certainly do!
- mdp2021 5y agoSo, quantitative definition: noise from X, benefit, social context (responsibility) and avoidability of X, for each X - children, blowers, dogs, stereos... I do not see the discrimination too difficult. What can be avoided, what should be avoided, what should be replaced, what should be regulated...
- Ekaros 5y agoAnd maybe drugs too. The drugged up people during weekends are massive nuisance in cities, yelling and being violent at streets. Really we should close down all bars and bring back prohibition...
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- Cupertino95014 5y agoIt's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.
- short12 5y agoMaybe that is a career that doesn't need to exist. It provides zero benefit to anyone and head detrimental effects such as noise and dust particles I certainly won't weap if the entire leaf blower industry flat out dies
- UIUC_06 5y ago.. and thanks for proving my point: you don't give a rat's ass for the actual minorities; just the abstract concept of them.
- AlbertCory 5y agoWhy is it, then, that whenever there's a city hearing about this (and Palo Alto, Menlo Park, and other affluent cities), the gardeners always show up and testify against it?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- TanakaTarou 5y agoThey can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.
- salawat 5y agoYes. In the State of regular rolling blackouts, and electrical grid sparked wildfires. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoThis only applies to sales of new equipment starting in 2024. Existing equipment isn't banned. Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go. The combination of multi-battery chargers and vehicles with built-in AC inverters (new electric F-150 is brilliant) means the batteries can even be charged straight off of the truck, eliminating the need to carry gasoline around or even stop at gas stations at all.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThere aren't any self propelled walk behind electric mowers that can handle non-flat ground.
- smileysteve 5y agothis seems like a potential area for innovation; Self propelled consumer ICE lawnmowers are plagued by open differentials, front wheel drive, and a complex drive system (belt and clutch attaching to a constant speed motor) Electrics, on the other hand, could easily have independent front and rear motors, if not each wheel; an independent ramping and traction control system from the main motor -- and even an isolated electrical system (via capacitor) such that grass load and wheel speed are indepedent.
- maxerickson 5y agoIs that a large market segment?
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoEveryone who can't justify an electric riding mower or doesn't have a place to charge it. I'm guessing you've never had to maneuver an umpowered push mower on slopes.
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- dghughes 5y agoI had an electric lawn mower it was great compared to gas mainly due to it being so quiet. Charging wasn't too bad at first one battery for the front yard and one for the back. But then one battery would not charge as much or run for as long as when new. The store had moved on to new models so I couldnt buy a battery in store. Even if I could it was expensive $100, the mower cost $250. Online even the manufacturer seemed to have moved on and not have the battery type. But if it did price plus shipping and tax would be high. It cut grass OK but if it was too long it would eat up the battery or stall. The grass catcher bag would also require more from the battery. One day at three years old thw mower just quit. The good battery is OK so it must be the mower motor. I looked at electric but the new ones are $500 they took a big jump in price. I bought a new gas mower.
- RickJWagner 5y agoYou've expressed all my concerns nicely. I wish they'd have mandatory battery shapes and standards. I think that would go a long way towards preventing death-by-unsupported-batteries.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoThere are services that will refurbish old batteries with new cells. Do some research to make sure you're buying from a trusted company, though.
- chokolad 5y agoI bought an Ego+ leafblower in Home Depot about 7 or so years ago. It was around $500 and the best garden related purchase I made so far. It is still going strong, there is literally no maintenance to perform, it's quiet, does not smell, starts instantly. I don't have to remember to discard fuel at the end of the lawn mowing season, no need to do oil changes etc. A+ will buy again.
- bombcar 5y agoThe battery issue is why I’ll only consider companies that make the OPE (outdoor power equipment) as a side part of their main battery powered tool business. Milwaukee’s M18 mower is coming out next year and I’ll be getting that.
- joelbondurant 5y agoElectricity in Karenifornia comes from CO2 free unicorn farts.
- neonate 5y agohttps://archive.is/5SVc4/ https://archive.is/5SVc4/
- echopom 5y ago> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public transport and so forth. Yet they go after "wind blower". It baffles me.
- minitoar 5y agoAll new car and truck sales in the state must be electric by 2035. San Jose had already mandated new residential construction to be electric only. There are solar incentives. It’s not just “wind blowers”.
- clairity 5y agoyah, this is the type of thing that i’d nominally support (hate the twice weekly immersion in unburnt pollution wafting into my apartment), but it’s so far down the list of things that can meaningfully reduce pollution, it’s farcical. but lawmakers are going to pat themselves on the back and toot their own horns like they’d saved the world once again. this kind of law is straight up distraction. energy production and transportation (and industry after that) are where we’ll have actual, material impact, and where our sole focus should be in this regard.
- verisimi 5y agoIts about socialising and shifting blame onto the consumer rather than resolving the problem at source, ie with the corporations. Corporations have lobbists to ensure that they will not be out of pocket as people transition to 'green energy' - in fact they hope that this will be a new growth opportunity.
- minitoar 5y agoIt makes it illegal for the corporations to sell those products. Not sure how that’s not “resolving the problem at source”.
- LatinAmerican 5y agoIt would be more significative to REDUCE the spent power, instead of changing the power storage from hydrocarbon to battery, e.g. change the grass to something that doesn't require trimming as often, or at all, like clovers. But for people, beautiful grass is more important than the environment.
- LatinAmerican 5y agoHow will non-hydrocarbon engines polute less when you produce electricity by burning hydrocarbons, 47% for California according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California Then, are you considering power converting inefficiencies, relying in a distribution matrix, burdening the local power production, maybe making prices go up, and adding toxic batteries that end up in a land fill ? But for people money and beautiful grass is more important than the environment Edit: Spelling
- rdiddly 5y agoLandscaping companies will pass their transition costs on to their (generally rich-ish and/or corporate) customers, who have been benefiting disproportionately from what is essentially a commons, for a long time. The majority of people meanwhile, mow their own lawns, and will find the typical battery-powered mower cost-effective, adequate to the task, quieter, and more convenient because there's no need to bring fuel from off site.
- garciasn 5y agoI recently bought a new house where I had to care for the yard (previously owned in a HoA which handled yard care) and tried an electric leaf blower. It made it no more than 10 mins on a charge and the batteries took 8-10 hours to get back to 100%. I didn’t find that at all adequate to the task.
- lostapathy 5y agoProfessional lawn crews will use professional tools. I don't know what you bought, the Ego equipment is actually pretty good and has fast-ish chargers available.
- rdiddly 5y agoSounds like you got a bad battery and would've qualified for a free replacement. Or a free rake. I can mow for over an hour on a 3-hour charge.
- andy17231 5y agoCan’t wait for ban on farting in public restrooms.
- sklargh 5y agoThese engines are not great and I don’t mind the ban in my town. That said it was temporarily an excuse for people to be incredibly rude to folks who keep our homes maintained. I paid a my landscaper’s fine while they figured out the ordinance. Reading a little further this is a comprehensive ban on an engine class…I wonder if the CA legislature understands that small engine chainsaws are an essential tool in wildland firefighting?
- Teknoman117 5y agoThe part of this that is actually worrying to me is this also includes gas, diesel, and propane powered electric generators. My parents live multiple hours north of the bay in the woods along the border of Jackson state forest and rely on their generator a few times a year. Their property is heavily wooded (lots of coastal redwoods) and on the north facing side of a mountain (it’s in the shade most of the day for most of the year), making both home solar and wind impractical. With PG&E doing power cuts, they need some way to power the fridge, furnace, and sump pump. They had their power cut for two weeks at the beginning of this year because of a winter storm, and had to run the generator a bunch. It’s one thing to have backup batteries to cover a day or two without power, but they’d need half a megawatt hour of batteries to cover the multiple week outages they’ve already experienced. It’s one thing to convert equipment from gas to electric where it makes sense, a wholesale ban on fuel powered equipment regardless of the situation is a bit asinine.
- wtallis 5y agoThe article mentions that the restrictions for generators aren't planned to take effect until much later (2028), and that can be postponed by CARB. Also, it's only for portable generators. If you're relying on generator power multiple times per year, it probably makes sense to get one permanently installed.
- asdff 5y agoSo, if the landscaping company can't operate a portable generator in their truck bed, how are they supposed to charge all the batteries they need on the job?
- short12 5y agoGood. Few sounds are more grinding than stupid leaf blowers They for hours on end and kick up tons of dust for people with asma. With zero actual before other than a pretty looking patch of concrete They should just be banned in all forms as they serve very little positive with much larger negatives
- hentrep 5y agoUnless I’m misinterpreting the article, this isn’t banning leaf blowers in general - only those which are gas powered. Electric leaf blowers still carry the annoyance you’ve mentioned.
- david38 5y agoAbout time. They are also an incredible noise problem. There are other problems with blowers - they’re generally bad for the soil, but I’ll take the small win.