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How does this interact with yesterday's facebook story. Facebook has a buggy UI that makes it hard to unfollow everything. Some dev created a plugin to fix th

How does this interact with yesterday's facebook story. Facebook has a buggy UI that makes it hard to unfollow everything. Some dev created a plugin to fix this. Facebook banned him and lawyered up. Is the plugin legal in europe or not? Is fixing a dark pattern a bugfix? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28801908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28801908

np_tedious 5y ago
Sounds like two distinctions. Not sure if either is legally relevant 1) browser extension (which I guess is kind of a client side JS modification?) vs decompilation 2) bug vs feature addition My uninformed take is that Facebook's claim is weak to begin with, but that this judgment doesn't really influence anything
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rafale 5y ago
It reminds me of the issue of whether game cheats are legal or not. Activision is losing a lot of money because cheats are ruining the game for everyone. Here, the only "victim" is Facebook itself. And it's not cheating as much as automating a manual process. My opinion is that Facebook overstepped here. A net negative move with all the bad PR they got, of which they already have plenty. And the attentionthe plug-in got.
Decker87 5y ago
Why wouldn't it be legal?
indemnity 5y ago
When did you acquire or purchase the Facebook app?
- speedgoose 5y ago
  All the time with my personal data. You don't even need to install anything. Many applications and websites will do share your data to Facebook. Friends too. It's great.
- afiori 5y ago
  generally by searching Facebook on duckduckgo and following links, for some people it might be preinstalled on their phones so they literally bought it. in any case it was given willingly to me by Facebook
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    True enough. I uninstall it from my phone and after every update it magically reappears. Ah Facebook, like U2 in ITunes, will they never learn.
- kergonath 5y ago
  Wait, I thought we were all paying with our data and the general state of surveillance on the web.
lr4444lr 5y ago
IANAL, but FB never made any direct or implied promise in its EULA that you could mass unfollow everything, and there probably ARE terms against scripting their API in an unauthorized way, so I don't think there is a case.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Any EULA agreement is between Facebook and the End User not the creator of a Chrome plugin. If they have a case it is against the individuals who use the plugin.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > FB never made any direct or implied promise in its EULA that you could mass unfollow everything Why does this have to be explicitly allowed? Everything not prohibited is permitted. > there probably ARE terms against scripting their API in an unauthorized way The extension is not bound by any terms. It's the user's choice whether to violate these conditions by installing and using it. In any case, users should have every right to do this. It's essentialy self-defense against corporate abuse. They can get us addicted to content feeds so we spend hours looking at ads but we can't script their site? That's abuse and we have every right to defend ourselves. These stupid terms are like a drug dealer that makes us promise not to go to a doctor and seek help for addiction before giving us our free sample.
- TechBro8615 5y ago
  If Facebook tells me I can only browse their website in Google Chrome, then can they sue me if I open Facebook in Mozilla Firefox?
- amelius 5y ago
  EULA doesn't mean anything as it's a one-sided contract. It doesn't allow the user to provide their terms in an input field. So it can't be taken seriously. It's basically 10,000 employee company against single consumer. No judge would think that is a fair way to go about these things.
owisd 5y ago
The author made a post explaining the plugin was almost certainly legal, but facebook can exploit the legal system make it too expensive to be worth defending. https://slate.com/technology/2021/10/facebook-unfollow-everything-cease-desist.html https://slate.com/technology/2021/10/facebook-unfollow-every...
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  Ah yes, “rights”, the privileges of the man with enough wealth to file suit. History will not look back well upon this charade.
  - philipov 5y ago
    "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets, and steal loaves of bread." - Anatole France
    - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
      If only that were the reality if things. In practice, the rich are not even as forbidden as the poor from that.
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      I always admired the writing style of that quote. In the same vein, most if not all of the Jan. 6 convictions are likely plea bargains, since Capitol Police opened the doors for protesters, but those charged likely don't want to spend $20,000 or more on a defense lawyer. None had guns, and the FBI reported this summer that there was no coup attempt or insurrection.
- kitd 5y ago
  And unfortunately, the author comes from the UK which is now no longer under the jurisdiction of the CJEU. That might have provided him some protection.
  - 5y ago

np_tedious 5y ago

Sounds like two distinctions. Not sure if either is legally relevant 1) browser extension (which I guess is kind of a client side JS modification?) vs decompilation 2) bug vs feature addition My uninformed take is that Facebook's claim is weak to begin with, but that this judgment doesn't really influence anything

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rafale 5y ago

It reminds me of the issue of whether game cheats are legal or not. Activision is losing a lot of money because cheats are ruining the game for everyone. Here, the only "victim" is Facebook itself. And it's not cheating as much as automating a manual process. My opinion is that Facebook overstepped here. A net negative move with all the bad PR they got, of which they already have plenty. And the attentionthe plug-in got.

Decker87 5y ago

Why wouldn't it be legal?

indemnity 5y ago

When did you acquire or purchase the Facebook app?

speedgoose 5y ago
All the time with my personal data. You don't even need to install anything. Many applications and websites will do share your data to Facebook. Friends too. It's great.
afiori 5y ago
generally by searching Facebook on duckduckgo and following links, for some people it might be preinstalled on their phones so they literally bought it. in any case it was given willingly to me by Facebook
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  True enough. I uninstall it from my phone and after every update it magically reappears. Ah Facebook, like U2 in ITunes, will they never learn.
kergonath 5y ago
Wait, I thought we were all paying with our data and the general state of surveillance on the web.

lr4444lr 5y ago

IANAL, but FB never made any direct or implied promise in its EULA that you could mass unfollow everything, and there probably ARE terms against scripting their API in an unauthorized way, so I don't think there is a case.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
Any EULA agreement is between Facebook and the End User not the creator of a Chrome plugin. If they have a case it is against the individuals who use the plugin.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> FB never made any direct or implied promise in its EULA that you could mass unfollow everything Why does this have to be explicitly allowed? Everything not prohibited is permitted. > there probably ARE terms against scripting their API in an unauthorized way The extension is not bound by any terms. It's the user's choice whether to violate these conditions by installing and using it. In any case, users should have every right to do this. It's essentialy self-defense against corporate abuse. They can get us addicted to content feeds so we spend hours looking at ads but we can't script their site? That's abuse and we have every right to defend ourselves. These stupid terms are like a drug dealer that makes us promise not to go to a doctor and seek help for addiction before giving us our free sample.
TechBro8615 5y ago
If Facebook tells me I can only browse their website in Google Chrome, then can they sue me if I open Facebook in Mozilla Firefox?
amelius 5y ago
EULA doesn't mean anything as it's a one-sided contract. It doesn't allow the user to provide their terms in an input field. So it can't be taken seriously. It's basically 10,000 employee company against single consumer. No judge would think that is a fair way to go about these things.

owisd 5y ago

The author made a post explaining the plugin was almost certainly legal, but facebook can exploit the legal system make it too expensive to be worth defending. https://slate.com/technology/2021/10/facebook-unfollow-everything-cease-desist.html https://slate.com/technology/2021/10/facebook-unfollow-every...

Blikkentrekker 5y ago
Ah yes, “rights”, the privileges of the man with enough wealth to file suit. History will not look back well upon this charade.
- philipov 5y ago
  "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets, and steal loaves of bread." - Anatole France
  - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
    If only that were the reality if things. In practice, the rich are not even as forbidden as the poor from that.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    I always admired the writing style of that quote. In the same vein, most if not all of the Jan. 6 convictions are likely plea bargains, since Capitol Police opened the doors for protesters, but those charged likely don't want to spend $20,000 or more on a defense lawyer. None had guns, and the FBI reported this summer that there was no coup attempt or insurrection.
kitd 5y ago
And unfortunately, the author comes from the UK which is now no longer under the jurisdiction of the CJEU. That might have provided him some protection.
- 5y ago