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"Members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software." First of all, it

by fanpx 5y ago

"Members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software." First of all, it is "a PhD", secondly, this looks like the typical scientific ecosystem power grab that we have seen multiple times in the US. In the Python scientific space, people doing actual work are exploited ruthlessly.

smetsjp 5y ago
There is a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 about FDL: https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/fosstaxbreak/ https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/fosstaxbreak/ Title: Give open source a (tax) break Cash that gets into FDL/LEF is then spent to sponsor existing FLOSS projects or to acquire intellectual property rights of existing works and change their license to FLOSS. Case 1: https://bossanova.uk/jspreadsheet/v4/ https://bossanova.uk/jspreadsheet/v4/ got financed partly by FDL/LEF Case 2: the radio hardware of the Open Radio Station (a 4G/5G vRAN base station based on Amarisoft stack and SlapOS) is in the process of being acquired and released as open source hardware. See https://shop.rapid.space/product_module/241/Resource_viewAsShop?variation=product_module/241/1 https://shop.rapid.space/product_module/241/Resource_viewAsS... The requirement for PhD is here to ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation, something which is useful to comply with Tax Law
- solarkraft 5y ago
  > ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation How does it ensure that?
  - fermigier 5y ago
    The selection process is described in details here: https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/ https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/ (Disclaimer: I'm one of the members of the selection committee. Ask me if you need more clarification).
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- indymike 5y ago
  So only a PhD can innovate?
  - radicalbyte 5y ago
    Well, they have no hope of getting tenure (that budget is needed for administration), so it's good that PhD have another option where they can avoid doing any real work* ;) * Giving people whose talent is thinking the chance to do that is a good idea. Better than losing that talent to management.
  - fermigier 5y ago
    As stated in my previous comment, the PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.
    - indymike 5y ago
      Is only a PhD is capable of recognizing libre software deserving of support?
      - fermigier 5y ago
        Nowhere is it implied that this could be true.
cpach 5y ago
That’s an … interesting requirement. In France there is, AFAIK, an exaggerated emphasis on the importance of holding a PhD title. IMHO I can’t really see the strong connection between acquiring an PhD and the ability to successfully lead open source projects.
- fermigier 5y ago
  As stated on the web site: "In order to be eligible to act on the committee, members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software. We are currently looking for new committee members." -> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only. Yeah... but why? What attribute do you think is unique to people with PhDs?
    - smetsjp 5y ago
      Holders of a PhD are considered as "capable of assessing the state of the art" by Tax authorities. Having PhDs in the committee which decides of grants thus reduces to legal risk of later seing tax cuts being cancelled by Tax authorities. Regarding projects which receive a grant, holding a PhD does not matter.
    - fermigier 5y ago
      I don't believe that people with PhDs have "unique attributes". There are, specially in the field of computing science, examples of exceptionally gifted and influential researchers without PhDs (e.g. Denis Ritchie, Simon Peyton-Jones...). What a Phd recognizes, and is relevant to the project at hand, is the ability "to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge". (Per Wikipedia: "Because it is an earned research degree, those studying for a PhD are required to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge, normally in the form of a thesis or dissertation, and defend their work against experts in the field. The completion of a PhD is often a requirement for employment as [...] a scientist in many fields.")
junon 5y ago
I don't see this requirement anywhere, can you point me to it?
cycomanic 5y ago
Reading the website this is for committee members only (it has nothing to do with if a project is eligible). This seems to largely be a requirement for tax reasons. As a side note, I find it unfortunate that often when things like this get posted, e.g. a foundation who supports free-software in this case, the first posts are not "this is a great thing", but instead someone goes through the website until they find something they disagree with and creates a negative debate and misinformation (several people here already understood the sentence to mean that projects led by non-PhDs can't apply).
- shadowfox 5y ago
  It is the "law of the topmost comment" [1] in action [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26357974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26357974
- follower 5y ago
  It depends on one's perspective, I guess. An alternative perspective is that the original commenter is doing the authors a favour by highlighting that their writing is currently easily misinterpreted and would benefit from revision.
diskzero 5y ago
This seems to be an unfortunate manifestation of French tax law and culture. This comes off as offensive to those of us who came up through, what we may believe, the more egalitarian, Silicon Valley entrepreneurship model. A PhD may actually be seen as a liability! It also is grating, as many open source coders and maintainers choose to operate outside of both the academic and Silicon Valley cultures. Why would they want a committee of academics guiding and funding their projects? All this being said, perhaps there will be positive outcomes from this fund.
andrewl 5y ago
Regarding the “an PhD” note, I’m finding other phrasing that makes me think the writers were not native English speakers. It’s a French organization after all, so I would expect a few errors in their English. They're not significant.

by fanpx 5y ago

smetsjp 5y ago

There is a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 about FDL: https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/fosstaxbreak/ https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/fosstaxbreak/ Title: Give open source a (tax) break Cash that gets into FDL/LEF is then spent to sponsor existing FLOSS projects or to acquire intellectual property rights of existing works and change their license to FLOSS. Case 1: https://bossanova.uk/jspreadsheet/v4/ https://bossanova.uk/jspreadsheet/v4/ got financed partly by FDL/LEF Case 2: the radio hardware of the Open Radio Station (a 4G/5G vRAN base station based on Amarisoft stack and SlapOS) is in the process of being acquired and released as open source hardware. See https://shop.rapid.space/product_module/241/Resource_viewAsShop?variation=product_module/241/1 https://shop.rapid.space/product_module/241/Resource_viewAsS... The requirement for PhD is here to ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation, something which is useful to comply with Tax Law

solarkraft 5y ago
> ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation How does it ensure that?
- fermigier 5y ago
  The selection process is described in details here: https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/ https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/ (Disclaimer: I'm one of the members of the selection committee. Ask me if you need more clarification).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
indymike 5y ago
So only a PhD can innovate?
- radicalbyte 5y ago
  Well, they have no hope of getting tenure (that budget is needed for administration), so it's good that PhD have another option where they can avoid doing any real work* ;) * Giving people whose talent is thinking the chance to do that is a good idea. Better than losing that talent to management.
- fermigier 5y ago
  As stated in my previous comment, the PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.
  - indymike 5y ago
    Is only a PhD is capable of recognizing libre software deserving of support?
    - fermigier 5y ago
      Nowhere is it implied that this could be true.

cpach 5y ago

That’s an … interesting requirement. In France there is, AFAIK, an exaggerated emphasis on the importance of holding a PhD title. IMHO I can’t really see the strong connection between acquiring an PhD and the ability to successfully lead open source projects.

fermigier 5y ago
As stated on the web site: "In order to be eligible to act on the committee, members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software. We are currently looking for new committee members." -> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only. Yeah... but why? What attribute do you think is unique to people with PhDs?
  - smetsjp 5y ago
    Holders of a PhD are considered as "capable of assessing the state of the art" by Tax authorities. Having PhDs in the committee which decides of grants thus reduces to legal risk of later seing tax cuts being cancelled by Tax authorities. Regarding projects which receive a grant, holding a PhD does not matter.
  - fermigier 5y ago
    I don't believe that people with PhDs have "unique attributes". There are, specially in the field of computing science, examples of exceptionally gifted and influential researchers without PhDs (e.g. Denis Ritchie, Simon Peyton-Jones...). What a Phd recognizes, and is relevant to the project at hand, is the ability "to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge". (Per Wikipedia: "Because it is an earned research degree, those studying for a PhD are required to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge, normally in the form of a thesis or dissertation, and defend their work against experts in the field. The completion of a PhD is often a requirement for employment as [...] a scientist in many fields.")

junon 5y ago

I don't see this requirement anywhere, can you point me to it?

cycomanic 5y ago

Reading the website this is for committee members only (it has nothing to do with if a project is eligible). This seems to largely be a requirement for tax reasons. As a side note, I find it unfortunate that often when things like this get posted, e.g. a foundation who supports free-software in this case, the first posts are not "this is a great thing", but instead someone goes through the website until they find something they disagree with and creates a negative debate and misinformation (several people here already understood the sentence to mean that projects led by non-PhDs can't apply).

shadowfox 5y ago
It is the "law of the topmost comment" [1] in action [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26357974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26357974
follower 5y ago
It depends on one's perspective, I guess. An alternative perspective is that the original commenter is doing the authors a favour by highlighting that their writing is currently easily misinterpreted and would benefit from revision.

diskzero 5y ago

This seems to be an unfortunate manifestation of French tax law and culture. This comes off as offensive to those of us who came up through, what we may believe, the more egalitarian, Silicon Valley entrepreneurship model. A PhD may actually be seen as a liability! It also is grating, as many open source coders and maintainers choose to operate outside of both the academic and Silicon Valley cultures. Why would they want a committee of academics guiding and funding their projects? All this being said, perhaps there will be positive outcomes from this fund.

andrewl 5y ago

Regarding the “an PhD” note, I’m finding other phrasing that makes me think the writers were not native English speakers. It’s a French organization after all, so I would expect a few errors in their English. They're not significant.