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What’s science supposed to be contradicting here? The article says Delta doesn’t make kids sicker than other variants, not that it doesn’t make them sick at all

What’s science supposed to be contradicting here? The article says Delta doesn’t make kids sicker than other variants, not that it doesn’t make them sick at all. A shot is still going to be preferable to an infection because it isn’t communicable.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>What’s science supposed to be contradicting here? There is significant contention over whether the vaccine provides better immunity than prior infection with many claiming it does. "Secondary immune response stronger after infection than after shot" is in direct contradiction of that claim. I haven't read the article in sufficient detail to comment on whether or not that title is justified.
angelzen 5y ago
Kids have vanishingly small risk of covid death, 1%-2% of the already vanishingly small risk of death for kids. The article confirms that the 'long covid in kids' fearmongering is also unwarranted. Given that surviving an infection also provides better long term protection (99.9995% of children survive covid), and that an infection later in life becomes significantly more dangerous, it raises big questions over the short-term strategy of covid vaccinating children. In particular as California has mandated covid vaccines for children, which could prove downright harmful long term. https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-19-kids-cases-hospitalizations-deaths/8361479002 https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-... https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-education-california-gavin-newsom-575ef3be2c5c2600664fa48c08041abd https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-educa...
- tootie 5y ago
  It's unbelievable that this far into the pandemic people are still making this argument. It has been known from near the beginning that the direct risk to kids is relatively small. The risk is secondary exposure. Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu and can expose hundreds of adults very quickly. Protecting kids will prevent spread. Not to mention kids who are vaccinated can still possibly be exposed to covid and have a further immune response as strong as full infection (this bit is not proven, I'm speculating).
  - adolph 5y ago
    > Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu I was expecting this at the start of this school year but it hasn’t really borne out as bad as I thought.
    - tootie 5y ago
      It hasn't happened in my kids' schools because they have stringent safety protocols. Mandatory masking, faculty and staff are required to vaccinate and spot testing. They will also shut down at least cohorts of kids to do two weeks of remote learning if there's a confirmed case. This is NYC schools who administer about 1M kids of varying means. A buried story from last year is that nationwide there was exactly 1 confirmed child influenza death in the entire country. There was 200 the year before. It speaks to the disease prevention protocols being very effective.
      - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
        > A buried story from last year is that nationwide there was exactly 1 confirmed child influenza death in the entire country. There was 200 the year before. It speaks to the disease prevention protocols being very effective. Obviously, nobody wants children to die from influenza or COVID, but what are the long-term consequences of young immune systems receiving significantly less exposure to pathogens? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/sunday/covid-quarantine-children-immune-systems.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/sunday/covid-quar...
        tootie 5y ago
        I find the hygiene hypothesis argument to be unconvincing. The notion that over sterilization leads to weaker immune response is plausible if not settled science. But it certainly seems the long-term outcomes in terms of life expectancy and quality of life come out heavily in favor of the sanitized and vaccinated life. Aside from the immediate benefit of fewer deaths due to acute illness, I bet there's a host of long-term syndromes akin to Long Covid that haven't been identified.
- ramchip 5y ago
  Isn't the point protecting the adults? The kids will mostly survive even if they get the virus, but they can infect their relatives, teachers, etc.
adolph 5y ago
I think the comments author was referring to the socio-political response of some locales to the virus. Over the summer in the US there was quite a bit of media coverage of pediatricians’ editorials and heightened coverage of children’s hospitals. That is just my impression as a person who doesn’t keep daily watch and count of things. I can see how a knee jerk reaction to the apparent discordance would be to discount either the early coverage or the research. If one takes a breath to think, the two are not mutually exclusive since something not worse for the population overall could also be substantially worse for a subset of the population.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>What’s science supposed to be contradicting here? There is significant contention over whether the vaccine provides better immunity than prior infection with many claiming it does. "Secondary immune response stronger after infection than after shot" is in direct contradiction of that claim. I haven't read the article in sufficient detail to comment on whether or not that title is justified.

angelzen 5y ago

Kids have vanishingly small risk of covid death, 1%-2% of the already vanishingly small risk of death for kids. The article confirms that the 'long covid in kids' fearmongering is also unwarranted. Given that surviving an infection also provides better long term protection (99.9995% of children survive covid), and that an infection later in life becomes significantly more dangerous, it raises big questions over the short-term strategy of covid vaccinating children. In particular as California has mandated covid vaccines for children, which could prove downright harmful long term. https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-19-kids-cases-hospitalizations-deaths/8361479002 https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-... https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-education-california-gavin-newsom-575ef3be2c5c2600664fa48c08041abd https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-educa...

tootie 5y ago
It's unbelievable that this far into the pandemic people are still making this argument. It has been known from near the beginning that the direct risk to kids is relatively small. The risk is secondary exposure. Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu and can expose hundreds of adults very quickly. Protecting kids will prevent spread. Not to mention kids who are vaccinated can still possibly be exposed to covid and have a further immune response as strong as full infection (this bit is not proven, I'm speculating).
- adolph 5y ago
  > Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu I was expecting this at the start of this school year but it hasn’t really borne out as bad as I thought.
  - tootie 5y ago
    It hasn't happened in my kids' schools because they have stringent safety protocols. Mandatory masking, faculty and staff are required to vaccinate and spot testing. They will also shut down at least cohorts of kids to do two weeks of remote learning if there's a confirmed case. This is NYC schools who administer about 1M kids of varying means. A buried story from last year is that nationwide there was exactly 1 confirmed child influenza death in the entire country. There was 200 the year before. It speaks to the disease prevention protocols being very effective.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      > A buried story from last year is that nationwide there was exactly 1 confirmed child influenza death in the entire country. There was 200 the year before. It speaks to the disease prevention protocols being very effective. Obviously, nobody wants children to die from influenza or COVID, but what are the long-term consequences of young immune systems receiving significantly less exposure to pathogens? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/sunday/covid-quarantine-children-immune-systems.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/sunday/covid-quar...
      - tootie 5y ago
        I find the hygiene hypothesis argument to be unconvincing. The notion that over sterilization leads to weaker immune response is plausible if not settled science. But it certainly seems the long-term outcomes in terms of life expectancy and quality of life come out heavily in favor of the sanitized and vaccinated life. Aside from the immediate benefit of fewer deaths due to acute illness, I bet there's a host of long-term syndromes akin to Long Covid that haven't been identified.
ramchip 5y ago
Isn't the point protecting the adults? The kids will mostly survive even if they get the virus, but they can infect their relatives, teachers, etc.

adolph 5y ago

I think the comments author was referring to the socio-political response of some locales to the virus. Over the summer in the US there was quite a bit of media coverage of pediatricians’ editorials and heightened coverage of children’s hospitals. That is just my impression as a person who doesn’t keep daily watch and count of things. I can see how a knee jerk reaction to the apparent discordance would be to discount either the early coverage or the research. If one takes a breath to think, the two are not mutually exclusive since something not worse for the population overall could also be substantially worse for a subset of the population.