4 ms·

The ocean is a different place in so many ways. My cousin is a Merchant Marine Engineer. Some big ships can't leave port without one, yet they are in short sup

The ocean is a different place in so many ways. My cousin is a Merchant Marine Engineer. Some big ships can't leave port without one, yet they are in short supply. So he's paid a lot per voyage. Two or three multi-week voyages and he'd done working for the year. Early on in his career, an officer would request his passport. To make things go faster in port, all the passports could be presented at once for quicker clearing of customs etc. Of course he learned immediately, this meant he could not leave the ship in foreign port. And the officer sandbagged when he requested his passport back. The result was, he was essentially held captive for several months aboard ship, several times longer than he was contracted for. And the ship could count on having an Engineer for every leg of the journey. Now he knows better, keeps his passport on his person at all times.

codazoda 5y ago
I was just reading about Cuba the other day. It seems that only the captain can leave the ship there until all passengers are cleared. I presume he needs to take their passports with him. That creates a bit of a catch-22 here.
- downrightmike 5y ago
  Seems like you should order a second passport once you have the first. Give the Capt the first one that is now invalid, but since he can't scan it, how will he know?
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    In the UK you can actually legitimately get two passports if you can show you need it for work (I think it's typically for travelling to countries who don't like each other and won't let you in if you have stamps from the other one). I wonder if this would count.
    - manquer 5y ago
      Or if you have dual nationality, You could use your other one. Really though, most embassies will issue travel documentation if your passport is lost without too much difficulty ( it is effectively lost if you cannot get access to it). If that sailor really wanted to leave, he can get another one from his embassy. This is more power dynamic between employee/ employer , I have seen similar stunts pulled by agents who get foreign workers in middle east.
themaninthedark 5y ago
That's surprising that is still happening nowadays. My brother is a Merchant Mariner. I think he is officer first class now but he worked his way up from AB. He just left out, he is probably going to be on the ship 8 months, maybe more depending. It used to be 3 months on 3 off. The contract he had gotten back from was supposed to be that but because of the world right now ended up being 6 months. I think he was only back for 3 before they called him back. He was the health and safety officer on his last outing, said that people were going crazy. Kept imagining they were getting Covid when they had been to sea after a month, said that there was a suicide on another vessel by someone who thought he was sick.(either was worried everyone was going to hate him for spreading the disease or afraid he would spread it to others.) Hope your cousin is staying safe out there. Don't know your nationality but the hopefully he can warn others quietly about that, the US is supposed to have a guild/union but I hear they aren't always the best.
chefkoch 5y ago
Huh? I assume he is a westener, so just tell customs your held against your will and the guy with passports goes to jail.
- newnamenewface 5y ago
  And you never work in your professional industry ever again... Black listing is very real in almost any situation where technically you can report someone for something heinous.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Professional slavery, you meant?
    - newnamenewface 5y ago
      You take my assertion as agreement or belief that this is ok. It's not, but if you're working to support family or pay off debts, the decision quickly loses its philosophical or moral character and only has a practical one: do I continue to make money or do I risk my livelihood and potential earning?
  - chefkoch 5y ago
    OK, so at your next software gig you wouldn't report them for basically holding you hostage till a release is finished? Because how would your next employer react to this?
  - dunefox 5y ago
    I would rather look for a different job than being held hostage for months, just me though.
sytelus 5y ago
I still don’t understand why passports are required in official paper. It’s just a bar code that guy scans to retrieve the official record with photo ID on their server. Anything printed on paper passport is worthless and untrustworthy.
- Aachen 5y ago
  If only that was how it worked. Even within the country of origin they don't always have access to such a system easily, let alone between countries.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  > It’s just a bar code that guy scans to retrieve the official record with photo ID on their server. This would require a fully connected graph between all Departments of State around the world (i.e., the holders of their respective countries' passport DBs), and that is definitely not the case. It will also never be the case, since there are various geopolitical advantages to having a secret passport database (like being able to mint identities for spies, or deny the existence of a person). The bar code you're referring to is just a machine-readable version of the information printed on the paper. It doesn't carry any proof of authenticity.
  - garmaine 5y ago
    Just FYI they do contain machine readable digital signatures from the passport issuer these days.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      Is that in the RFID tag? I know US passports have those embedded, but I wasn't sure about other nationalities. I'd be curious to learn more about how they verify those signatures as well; I can imagine it being nontrivial/de facto limited to a collection of trusted partner nations.
      - garmaine 5y ago
marcosdumay 5y ago
I wonder how customs would react if you go to them and ask to conference with your national embassy.

codazoda 5y ago

I was just reading about Cuba the other day. It seems that only the captain can leave the ship there until all passengers are cleared. I presume he needs to take their passports with him. That creates a bit of a catch-22 here.

downrightmike 5y ago
Seems like you should order a second passport once you have the first. Give the Capt the first one that is now invalid, but since he can't scan it, how will he know?
- nicoburns 5y ago
  In the UK you can actually legitimately get two passports if you can show you need it for work (I think it's typically for travelling to countries who don't like each other and won't let you in if you have stamps from the other one). I wonder if this would count.
  - manquer 5y ago
    Or if you have dual nationality, You could use your other one. Really though, most embassies will issue travel documentation if your passport is lost without too much difficulty ( it is effectively lost if you cannot get access to it). If that sailor really wanted to leave, he can get another one from his embassy. This is more power dynamic between employee/ employer , I have seen similar stunts pulled by agents who get foreign workers in middle east.

themaninthedark 5y ago

That's surprising that is still happening nowadays. My brother is a Merchant Mariner. I think he is officer first class now but he worked his way up from AB. He just left out, he is probably going to be on the ship 8 months, maybe more depending. It used to be 3 months on 3 off. The contract he had gotten back from was supposed to be that but because of the world right now ended up being 6 months. I think he was only back for 3 before they called him back. He was the health and safety officer on his last outing, said that people were going crazy. Kept imagining they were getting Covid when they had been to sea after a month, said that there was a suicide on another vessel by someone who thought he was sick.(either was worried everyone was going to hate him for spreading the disease or afraid he would spread it to others.) Hope your cousin is staying safe out there. Don't know your nationality but the hopefully he can warn others quietly about that, the US is supposed to have a guild/union but I hear they aren't always the best.

chefkoch 5y ago

Huh? I assume he is a westener, so just tell customs your held against your will and the guy with passports goes to jail.

newnamenewface 5y ago
And you never work in your professional industry ever again... Black listing is very real in almost any situation where technically you can report someone for something heinous.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Professional slavery, you meant?
  - newnamenewface 5y ago
    You take my assertion as agreement or belief that this is ok. It's not, but if you're working to support family or pay off debts, the decision quickly loses its philosophical or moral character and only has a practical one: do I continue to make money or do I risk my livelihood and potential earning?
- chefkoch 5y ago
  OK, so at your next software gig you wouldn't report them for basically holding you hostage till a release is finished? Because how would your next employer react to this?
- dunefox 5y ago
  I would rather look for a different job than being held hostage for months, just me though.

sytelus 5y ago

I still don’t understand why passports are required in official paper. It’s just a bar code that guy scans to retrieve the official record with photo ID on their server. Anything printed on paper passport is worthless and untrustworthy.

Aachen 5y ago
If only that was how it worked. Even within the country of origin they don't always have access to such a system easily, let alone between countries.
woodruffw 5y ago
> It’s just a bar code that guy scans to retrieve the official record with photo ID on their server. This would require a fully connected graph between all Departments of State around the world (i.e., the holders of their respective countries' passport DBs), and that is definitely not the case. It will also never be the case, since there are various geopolitical advantages to having a secret passport database (like being able to mint identities for spies, or deny the existence of a person). The bar code you're referring to is just a machine-readable version of the information printed on the paper. It doesn't carry any proof of authenticity.
- garmaine 5y ago
  Just FYI they do contain machine readable digital signatures from the passport issuer these days.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Is that in the RFID tag? I know US passports have those embedded, but I wasn't sure about other nationalities. I'd be curious to learn more about how they verify those signatures as well; I can imagine it being nontrivial/de facto limited to a collection of trusted partner nations.
    - garmaine 5y ago

marcosdumay 5y ago

I wonder how customs would react if you go to them and ask to conference with your national embassy.