5 ms·

The current stats include a ridiculously large number of Asians, and the changes are racially motivated according to the proponents' own words. It doesn't soun

The current stats include a ridiculously large number of Asians, and the changes are racially motivated according to the proponents' own words. It doesn't sound like the system was perfect, I'm all for reform that helps everyone. Hurting Asians to create equality isn't it.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Equality, to the priviledged, looks like persecution. That many Asian kids got a golden ticket, and now won't get a golden ticket, seems like not such a problem to those who were denied any such chance at a golden ticket for generations.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  You realize a lot of those Asians are from poor, immigrant families, right? You ever spend time in Flushing? Rich white liberals should not be tearing them down in the name of "antiracism".
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    And yes, they were not denied the golden ticket. But others were. Equality can look like persecution, if you used to be a lucky winner.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      Busting your ass as an immigrant is only a "golden ticket" compared to staying in the third world. Meanwhile, the people pushing these changes all have graduate degrees and incredibly privileged backgrounds. It absolutely is persecution and punching down for them to be going after poor immigrants.
- Veen 5y ago
  > Equality, to the priviledged, looks like persecution. So does persecution.
- arkades 5y ago
  Having come out of the gifted and talented programs in question in NYC: The privileged go to private school. Our programs are dominated by first generation immigrants, mostly SE Asian. Even the white component tends to be poor immigrant families. If hard-working and intelligent poor people clawing their way upwards is a stain on equality, something has gone deeply deeply wrong with our conception of equality. It’s always been a problem for NY liberals that these programs were so massively underrepresenting the black population. The fact that they were highly diverse had to be ignored. The fact that they were rife with poor first generation immigrants had to be ignored (it undercut the “rich people buy exam prep to get their kids in, which is why so few black kids get in” narrative). (The few black kids that did get in were almost /all/ first generation immigrants, too). The only thing that mattered was the optics: not enough black kids, kill the program.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    I think there is also a hidden truth that immigrant children very often behave extremely disciplined, not only asian ones as per stereotype. They indeed see education as privilege while most common people don't see it that way, they just must go to school. That has as highly positive effect on grades. The effect often vanishes after a while.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    You're making it a stain. Equality isn't some attack on your morals. I am saddened, that all the folks frightened by a world more equal immediately resort to imaginary persecution as a first reaction. "Not enough black kids" is "bigotry", right? Or do you argue that black kids are not smart? What is that argument called?
    - arkades 5y ago
      No, my argument isn’t that black kids aren’t smart. And it’s distant enough from what I did write that I hesitate to even call it a straw man.
    - _hilro 5y ago
      > I am saddened, that all the folks frightened by a world more equal immediately resort to imaginary persecution as a first reaction. What a dumb comment. More equal according to racial distribution and 0 other things. Color of your skin over your character/intelligence/work ethic?
- Chris2048 5y ago
  Faulty premises often hide behind metaphors. What does "got a golden ticket" mean? On merit?

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Equality, to the priviledged, looks like persecution. That many Asian kids got a golden ticket, and now won't get a golden ticket, seems like not such a problem to those who were denied any such chance at a golden ticket for generations.

refenestrator 5y ago
You realize a lot of those Asians are from poor, immigrant families, right? You ever spend time in Flushing? Rich white liberals should not be tearing them down in the name of "antiracism".
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  And yes, they were not denied the golden ticket. But others were. Equality can look like persecution, if you used to be a lucky winner.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    Busting your ass as an immigrant is only a "golden ticket" compared to staying in the third world. Meanwhile, the people pushing these changes all have graduate degrees and incredibly privileged backgrounds. It absolutely is persecution and punching down for them to be going after poor immigrants.
Veen 5y ago
> Equality, to the priviledged, looks like persecution. So does persecution.
arkades 5y ago
Having come out of the gifted and talented programs in question in NYC: The privileged go to private school. Our programs are dominated by first generation immigrants, mostly SE Asian. Even the white component tends to be poor immigrant families. If hard-working and intelligent poor people clawing their way upwards is a stain on equality, something has gone deeply deeply wrong with our conception of equality. It’s always been a problem for NY liberals that these programs were so massively underrepresenting the black population. The fact that they were highly diverse had to be ignored. The fact that they were rife with poor first generation immigrants had to be ignored (it undercut the “rich people buy exam prep to get their kids in, which is why so few black kids get in” narrative). (The few black kids that did get in were almost /all/ first generation immigrants, too). The only thing that mattered was the optics: not enough black kids, kill the program.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I think there is also a hidden truth that immigrant children very often behave extremely disciplined, not only asian ones as per stereotype. They indeed see education as privilege while most common people don't see it that way, they just must go to school. That has as highly positive effect on grades. The effect often vanishes after a while.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  You're making it a stain. Equality isn't some attack on your morals. I am saddened, that all the folks frightened by a world more equal immediately resort to imaginary persecution as a first reaction. "Not enough black kids" is "bigotry", right? Or do you argue that black kids are not smart? What is that argument called?
  - arkades 5y ago
    No, my argument isn’t that black kids aren’t smart. And it’s distant enough from what I did write that I hesitate to even call it a straw man.
  - _hilro 5y ago
    > I am saddened, that all the folks frightened by a world more equal immediately resort to imaginary persecution as a first reaction. What a dumb comment. More equal according to racial distribution and 0 other things. Color of your skin over your character/intelligence/work ethic?
Chris2048 5y ago
Faulty premises often hide behind metaphors. What does "got a golden ticket" mean? On merit?