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I know this is charged but it's genuine question due to my ignorance - why are companies having or moving HQs to Texas? It feels that : 1. It's way out of temp
by NikolaNovak 5y ago
I know this is charged but it's genuine question due to my ignorance - why are companies having or moving HQs to Texas?
It feels that :
1. It's way out of temperate climate that one would live in when given full choice and all things equal (understanding they never are of course - I live in great white North :)
2. Politics are highly conservative and frequently invasive. now clearly half of Americans like it that way,but still,seems odd for largely progressive company like Tesla that's ostensibly working to put oil industry on defence... And that's not even allowed to sell there.
Taxes?some quid pro quo to get sales in? Something else?
- nunez 5y agoCorp taxes low, cost of living low (for now), HEAPS of open space (important for Tesla), UT Austin's compsci program (which is ranked) provides a good pipeline, engineers from the Bay are moving to Austin at an increasingly high rate, and demographics are shifting more progressive. I think the writing is on the wall for tech in CA honestly
- dane-pgp 5y agoIf the demographics of Texas is really shifting more progressive, then the writing could also be on the wall for Republican presidential campaigns. Perhaps at that point the party will suddenly find itself again embracing the wisdom of the proposed Lodge-Gossett constitutional amendment, which got as far as approval by a super majority in the US Senate in 1950. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/analysis-fractional-proportional-lodge-gossett-method-awarding-electoral-votes https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/analysis-fractional-prop...
- belltaco 5y agoWhy would Democrats support that?
- dane-pgp 5y agoBecause it would make presidential election outcomes more likely to reflect the popular vote (which is the morally right thing to do), and because it reduces the risk that small changes in big states create vastly different election outcomes (which is the strategically right thing to do, if you expect your opponent to cheat, lie, and start insurrections based on false claims).
- jasondigitized 5y agoRepublicans are doing everything they can to prolong the demographic tidal wave coming their way in the next 20 years. Texas will be blue eventually.
- robomartin 5y ago> and frequently invasive What would be the top ten examples of "frequently invasive" conservative policies in Texas? Just wondering what your perspective might be on this.
- colinmhayes 5y ago1. abortion 2. limiting voting rights Would have to think for more than a seconds to add more.
- robomartin 5y ago[flagged]
- mullingitover 5y agoI really hate to get into this, but this: > just ask the fetus How are you going to get an answer from something that doesn't have brain activity? Restrictions on abortion at the point where there's significant brain activity are already allowed by Roe v. Wade. > I just think it is perfectly reasonable to think that an abortion might be wrong beyond a certain threshold. Please educate yourself on the actual Roe v. Wade decision. This reasoning is in fact already baked into the decision, restrictions on abortion are allowed but must be in line with the stage of the pregnancy. The states where this freedom for women is under attack constantly try to lower the bar from the reasonable threshold of viability to the more radical religious position that something vaguely human-shaped is a legal person.
- vrc 5y agoBusiness/profit friendly taxes and regulations.
- kevingadd 5y agoLower taxes and fewer regulations
- nyolfen 5y agoi'm sure there are many reasons but it is far, far more expensive to operate in california than texas on any level, from personal to enterprise. texas also has cheap land, a sizable tech sector, and weaker labor regulations (all 3 tying back into the first thing).
- Negitivefrags 5y ago> largely progressive company like Tesla Did you miss the memo? Progressives hate Tesla now.
- zz865 5y agoI dont think they really are. But if you want a big office building with 5000 middle class workers SV is very expensive to do this.
- joegahona 5y agoTaxes are much better and a low cost of living.
- dlp211 5y ago> Taxes are much better Only for the upper-middle class and rich. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-19/wait-california-has-lower-middle-class-taxes-than-texas https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-19/wait-c...
- nyolfen 5y agotexas does not have state income tax, sales taxes are about average and property taxes are higher than average
- edbob 5y agoProperty tax rates are higher on a percentage basis, but property values can be much lower, so you can still come out ahead on the property taxes. larsiusprime had a good analysis [0] that gets into some of the details. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793851
- jeffbee 5y agoRight. People don’t get this because tax policy is dominated by right-wing memes but tax load for median families is way higher in Texas. Property tax rates on the median house are higher, while the effective income tax on the median income in California is very little. Median income tax burden in California is ~$350/yr.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoThat seems way off… when I earned $16/hr way back in my early working days my CA state income tax was a hell of a lot more than $350/yr. $16/hr is under the median CA income afaik.
- chroem- 5y ago> 2. Politics are highly conservative and frequently invasive. Given Elon's previous commentary, I think he might disagree with this evaluation.
- ericmay 5y agoOn abortion or taxes? I think it’s an important distinction that we need to address - social conservatism, what that means, fiscal conservatism, or outright low taxes, etc.
- chroem- 5y agoElon has been a fairly outspoken critic of California's covid measures, as well as the state's cultural stance on free speech issues. He had previously threatened to move all of his business operations out of California because of covid restrictions, and now it looks like he is making good on those earlier comments.
- belltaco 5y agoHe said today that the California facilities will be expanded, not moved out.
- dlp211 5y ago1. Elon Musk only cares about the money in his pocket despite whatever persona he puts on for the public. That's it, that explains everything.
- temp8964 5y agoIs Tesla a progressive company? And what does that mean?
- NikolaNovak 5y agoI thought I indicated that in literally next sentence; Musk is building companies to change future and disrupt status quo in general (so opposite from the most generic definition of conservativism which seeks to preserve it) ; and specifically Tesla is a company that builds a product that in small way obviates what Texas exports and lives on
- fastball 5y ago> company that builds a product that in small way obviates what Texas exports and lives on Texas produces more GWh of Solar + Wind energy than any other state in the US.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hindsightbias 5y agoI predict sales of Boring Flamethrowers will skyrocket in TX. The Truck might make a good Techinical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)
- larsiusprime 5y agoCost of living is one of many reasons. Highly sought after tech workers (like all workers) would prefer not to hand a huge portion of their salary straight over to their landlord. And tech workers, unlike most workers, actually have a bit of leverage under current market conditions to demand stuff. Texas actually has some of the highest property taxes[1] in the nation, which (unintuitively to some) helps keep down the price of property. Countless studies (can share links if you like) demonstrate that property taxes (and land taxes in particular) are capitalized into the price of land. California has some of the lowest property taxes, which when paired with Proposition 13, means it has some of the most expensive real estate in the nation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax_in_the_United_Sta...
- kiklion 5y agoAm I misunderstanding or are you basically saying that the monthly cost of housing is roughly equivalent so more taxes = lower home prices, such that taxes + principal + interest is the same in both places?
- larsiusprime 5y agoTo clarify a bit: The monthly cost of renting a house is way higher in California, not because it costs more to rent the house, but because it costs more to rent the land the house sits on. Property tax taxes two things -- the house, and the land. The portion of the tax that taxes the land is capitalized into the selling/renting price of the land, which is to say that causes it to cost less to buy the land and less to rent it. (The portion of property tax that taxes the building can actually be passed on to tenants (unlike the land portion of the tax) and serves to make building things more expensive, and that is bad, but since the majority of the price of houses in most urban areas is just land value, the land portion of the tax makes it a net gain).
- asdff 5y ago>To clarify a bit: The monthly cost of renting a house is way higher in California, not because it costs more to rent the house, but because it costs more to rent the land the house sits on Rent is not really tied to land in CA. If it were, a 1br in an apartment complex would be cheaper than a 1br detached unit since you are renting less physical land, and while much rarer, both 1brs tend to be about the same prices. Biggest factors influencing local variance in rents in California seem to be quality of neighborhood which is proxy for access to high paying jobs, fit and finish of the unit, and size of the unit.
- tdeck 5y ago> still,seems odd for largely progressive company like Tesla that's ostensibly working to put oil industry on defence This is marketing. Read up on how Tesla treats its workers and you'll see what their leadership's real values are.
- brodock 5y agoLess taxes less overall regulation. It adds up having to deal with BS for everything you want to do.
- weezin 5y agoCan't launch rockets from California. Splitting time between SpaceX and Tesla is a lot harder when its half way across the country.
- mabbo 5y agoI get your point, but: > Can't launch rockets from California Nearly all of SpaceX's polar orbit launches were/are from Vandenberg Air force base, just north west of Los Angeles.
- weezin 5y agoAhh interesting, I assumed since a lot of launch sites are over the ocean and east that it was a requirement.
- marcusverus 5y ago1) Very true, but unless you're an avid hiker or a marathoner, I'm not sure how big of a role climate plays in deciding a home. 2) Texas politics are invasive if you're a woman in need of an abortion, sure. But then, California politics are invasive for everyone who earns an income. If Texas politics are 'frequently invasive', then California politics must be downright suffocating.
- setpatchaddress 5y agoI assume by "California politics" you mean taxes? Got news for you about TX property tax, chief.
- marcusverus 5y agoSorry, champ. Your news doesn't mean what you think it means. Californians pay lower average property tax rates, but California's ridiculous housing prices mean that they pay more in property taxes. Median home value in California is $554,886, average property tax is 0.7%, for a (rough) average property tax bill of $3,884. Median home value in Texas is $207,301 with an average property value of 1.6%, for a (rough) average property tax rate of 3,316. Californians also have a higher sales tax rate and an income tax, while Texas has no income tax. So yeah, I mean taxes. [0]https://taxfoundation.org/high-state-property-taxes-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/high-state-property-taxes-2021/ [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_median_home_price https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_median_...
- jasondigitized 5y agoTexas politics are infuriating in their lack of humanity, particularly for the disadvantaged but for the reader of Hacker News, you would hardly notice. If you live in Texas, it’s easier to ignore the politics and spend time and money helping those who are affected.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- nradov 5y agoCalifornia politics are equally or more invasive, just in different directions. Pick your poison.
- boringg 5y agoI think there is a strange narrative that people assume Tesla as a company is a "progressive" company. It isn't. It is a company made up of many people - at their core they are an energy company that sells cars. Some staff are liberal, many are libertarian and some are conservative. Their CEO is a libertarian. I would wager there aren't many political progressives in the company TBH. Also in terms of workers rights etc - I wouldn't put Tesla in the progressive category either. HQ in Texas makes a fair bit of sense given Musk lives there and he can split his time more readily between Space X and Tesla. That and building out in Texas is incredibly cheap and the level of talent needed to stock up at this point doesn't need to be as capable as the early company building staff - its more operational at this point.