4 ms·

I’ve worked with a few former criminals who spent time in prison for things they did in their youths. Keep in mind that I’m Scandinavian and our justice system

by moksly 5y ago

I’ve worked with a few former criminals who spent time in prison for things they did in their youths. Keep in mind that I’m Scandinavian and our justice system is very, very, different. But all of them had been young and unadjusted and eventually wound up hurting someone over something stupid. Having matured and now in their 30’ies, none of that past life remained in any way in my dealings with them. Obviously this is both anecdotal and success biased as I’d never be in a position to meet the people who don’t succeed, but not giving people a chance just because they’ve made mistakes is silly and I’m happy that initiatives like this exist when your justice system doesn’t want to reform people.

gatlin 5y ago
The single best tool for rehabilitation, for the convict and the society around them, is meaningful activity. People hurt each other for reasons that are often as sympathetic as they are ultimately intolerable. I think it's wonderful that you had a great experience and shared it because the stigma needs to go. The inclination to follow the law may be tangentially related to a basic ability to follow directions, granted, but it doesn't make someone good or moral.
- moksly 5y ago
  I think it’s just a really hard nut to crack. Because even if you remove the bias and stigma, corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I’ve met these people in the public sector where we have policies in place to employ the people who are hard to employ and focus on not discriminating people because of what they bring. But the fact that we have those policies and that focus speaks a lot about how hard of an issue it is. Because if you’ve committed crime, you’ll simply be considered a more risky hire, and we don’t like that. The most expensive mistake a manager can make in my country is hiring the wrong person. This is where a lot of the discrimination against former criminals, people with different sort of diagnosis’s, people over 60 and so on come from. Often the risk assessment isn’t actually true. Because a lot of these people will be far more loyal to your organisation than a fresh hire out of university, but the risk assessment will still favour the young person, and if someone experience and “normal” in their late 30ies or early 40ies is in competition, well…
  - mettamage 5y ago
    > corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I'm even experiencing this. And I'm a "normal" person by many accounts (graduated from uni, no crime, little experience, etc.). I can't imagine how tough it must be for people that committed a crime in the past.
    - gatlin 5y ago
      I will say nothing that incriminates me but I have broken plenty, plenty of laws in my life. And I have done unspeakably shitty things to people that were perfectly legal. Someone's criminal record is a different kind of CV to me, simple as.
  - david38 5y ago
    This is why the solution is for a background check to report “ok” for a standard job, but “no” for another type of job based on the crime. Companies can never do it because they open themselves up to lawsuits.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Also giving people a perspective is the best weapon to deter crime in the first place. The organized form has massive problems recruiting new members when there are plainly better economic opportunities to be had. Maximum security prisons are only needed when that has already failed.
Kiro 5y ago
Unfortunately it's not very representative. The vast majority of people in SiS do not end in a good place. Anyone who has worked at a SiS institution can attest how hopeless it feels that so few has any chance of rehabilitation whatsoever. You almost presume most will end up in prison or dead.

by moksly 5y ago

gatlin 5y ago

The single best tool for rehabilitation, for the convict and the society around them, is meaningful activity. People hurt each other for reasons that are often as sympathetic as they are ultimately intolerable. I think it's wonderful that you had a great experience and shared it because the stigma needs to go. The inclination to follow the law may be tangentially related to a basic ability to follow directions, granted, but it doesn't make someone good or moral.

moksly 5y ago
I think it’s just a really hard nut to crack. Because even if you remove the bias and stigma, corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I’ve met these people in the public sector where we have policies in place to employ the people who are hard to employ and focus on not discriminating people because of what they bring. But the fact that we have those policies and that focus speaks a lot about how hard of an issue it is. Because if you’ve committed crime, you’ll simply be considered a more risky hire, and we don’t like that. The most expensive mistake a manager can make in my country is hiring the wrong person. This is where a lot of the discrimination against former criminals, people with different sort of diagnosis’s, people over 60 and so on come from. Often the risk assessment isn’t actually true. Because a lot of these people will be far more loyal to your organisation than a fresh hire out of university, but the risk assessment will still favour the young person, and if someone experience and “normal” in their late 30ies or early 40ies is in competition, well…
- mettamage 5y ago
  > corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I'm even experiencing this. And I'm a "normal" person by many accounts (graduated from uni, no crime, little experience, etc.). I can't imagine how tough it must be for people that committed a crime in the past.
  - gatlin 5y ago
    I will say nothing that incriminates me but I have broken plenty, plenty of laws in my life. And I have done unspeakably shitty things to people that were perfectly legal. Someone's criminal record is a different kind of CV to me, simple as.
- david38 5y ago
  This is why the solution is for a background check to report “ok” for a standard job, but “no” for another type of job based on the crime. Companies can never do it because they open themselves up to lawsuits.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Also giving people a perspective is the best weapon to deter crime in the first place. The organized form has massive problems recruiting new members when there are plainly better economic opportunities to be had. Maximum security prisons are only needed when that has already failed.

Kiro 5y ago

Unfortunately it's not very representative. The vast majority of people in SiS do not end in a good place. Anyone who has worked at a SiS institution can attest how hopeless it feels that so few has any chance of rehabilitation whatsoever. You almost presume most will end up in prison or dead.