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Does crypto do anything but cause troubles? If it's not actively destroying the environment, then it's endangering financial stability. How does the government

by iSnow 5y ago

Does crypto do anything but cause troubles? If it's not actively destroying the environment, then it's endangering financial stability. How does the government not step in here?

fleddr 5y ago
Ironic remark, as Bitcoin is invented in response to the instability of the traditional financial system.
- recursive 5y ago
  Very many things have effects different than the ones motivating their invention.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Curious. Is that true? I ask because I read papers on digital cash years before Bitcoin and never saw any reference to financial system instability. It was just "being able to send money digitally like cash would be useful and cool", perhaps with a bit of "banks and western union are bandits with their fees". I always thought the alternative financial system stuff was added later to make the scene more interesting to prepper types.
  - nrb 5y ago
    Included in the coinbase parameter of the genesis block of Bitcoin is the following message: “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks”
    - imtringued 5y ago
      Bitcoin doesn't eliminate the need for bailouts. It doesn't even do lending, at least nobody is crazy enough to borrow something that is going up in value.
      - rand49an 5y ago
        I think it's more a point that it's a currency that it is effectively impossible for anyone to change the supply more than it doesn't need to be bailed out.
      - nrb 5y ago
        Well, essentially it seemed to be pointing out that existing financial systems are inherently unstable by design. Whether these alternatives do any better is a different topic, I was merely answering the question above.
cinntaile 5y ago
Any economic activity is basically actively destroying the environment though. The big difference is that there are a few supply chain steps that get bypassed before value is created. I know I know, someone will take issue with that and say that no value is created with crypto when a coin gets minted and the rewards are distributed while value is created along each supply chain step when you manufacture a car. But if it wasn't creating value people wouldn't do it at this scale.
- acdha 5y ago
  Who outside of the cryptocurrency industry would notice if they disappeared? Who outside of the automotive industry would notice if cars disappeared? That's your answer: pollution is still a concern but only one of those is balanced against significant real-world benefits for people other than the sellers.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    The automotive industry is 100+ years old whilst Bitcoin is only 13 years old, so you can't fairly compare them on the basis of "who would notice". My previous skepticism of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency was due to short-sightedness. You almost have to dip your toes in, in order to understand its potential.
    - acdha 5y ago
      Okay, use the web. Within a couple of years of its creation it had transformed businesses in all kinds of industries, government, education, recreational activities, etc. By the time it was as old as Bitcoin, the world was completely different and people were walking around with web clients in their pockets; in contrast, the most impact Bitcoin has had outside of its own community seems to be that it can be slightly cheaper than Western Union to send money to another country.
      - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
        I'm going to disagree with your timescale, mainly in the use of 'web' rather than 'internet'. The 'internet', which set the foundation for the 'web' started its existence in the 70's, and the 'web' wasn't really invented until the late 80's / early 90's. Memory of time passing seemingly gets very compressed the further back you go. Additionally, Bitcoin is an attempt at disrupting elements of the financial world (and cryptocurrencies as-a-whole are going after ALL of finance, not just elements of it). This is _the most powerful and well-funded aspect of modern civilisation_, so there's going to be severe resistance (to put it mildly) to any threat. It's also difficult to understand the concepts that are foundational to cryptocurrencies, and the average persons eyes glaze over (personal terminology my wife uses when I try to explain technologically difficult things that she really has no interest in) at the slightest dip into its technicalities. Better examples may be smart phones, but mobiles have been around since the mid-80's at least (that suitcase-sized portable phone in Lethal Weapon), and laptops are of a similar vintage (my argument being that smart phones are a combination of these two existing technologies). Smart phones also have that immediate-dopamine-hit working for their adoption rate whilst Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are a 'longer game' (arguably you could say those already on the 'inside' for crypto get the dopamine hit of profit or potential riches - rightly or wrongly, healthily or otherwise). Think of cryptocurrency as building a brand new Central Banking and Wall Street infrastructure. 13 years is still breast-feeding against that behemoth.
trident5000 5y ago
Yeah, it gives an exit for people avoiding a total financial wipe-out from irresponsible governments around the world who cant keep their greedy little fingers off the printing press to stay in power. Amongst other things. Remember when it took 3 days to transfer money before crypto showed up? That was ridiculous and other things still are (like banks taking your money and giving you almost no interest for the profits they make off it).
CryptoPunk 5y ago
You don't have to use crypto. Obviously some people want to be involved in crypto, so why not just respect their right to do with their own time/money what they want. If the environment is your concern, then you should propose application agnostic restrictions on emitting CO2. Not use the environment as an excuse to selectively prohibit an activity you personally dislike.
trophycase 5y ago
Step in how? Anyone I know who has ever held crypto for a significant amount of time is a working class person and it has changed their life for the better. If that's endangering financial stability then our system is a joke.

by iSnow 5y ago

Does crypto do anything but cause troubles? If it's not actively destroying the environment, then it's endangering financial stability. How does the government not step in here?

fleddr 5y ago

Ironic remark, as Bitcoin is invented in response to the instability of the traditional financial system.

recursive 5y ago
Very many things have effects different than the ones motivating their invention.
dboreham 5y ago
Curious. Is that true? I ask because I read papers on digital cash years before Bitcoin and never saw any reference to financial system instability. It was just "being able to send money digitally like cash would be useful and cool", perhaps with a bit of "banks and western union are bandits with their fees". I always thought the alternative financial system stuff was added later to make the scene more interesting to prepper types.
- nrb 5y ago
  Included in the coinbase parameter of the genesis block of Bitcoin is the following message: “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks”
  - imtringued 5y ago
    Bitcoin doesn't eliminate the need for bailouts. It doesn't even do lending, at least nobody is crazy enough to borrow something that is going up in value.
    - rand49an 5y ago
      I think it's more a point that it's a currency that it is effectively impossible for anyone to change the supply more than it doesn't need to be bailed out.
    - nrb 5y ago
      Well, essentially it seemed to be pointing out that existing financial systems are inherently unstable by design. Whether these alternatives do any better is a different topic, I was merely answering the question above.

cinntaile 5y ago

Any economic activity is basically actively destroying the environment though. The big difference is that there are a few supply chain steps that get bypassed before value is created. I know I know, someone will take issue with that and say that no value is created with crypto when a coin gets minted and the rewards are distributed while value is created along each supply chain step when you manufacture a car. But if it wasn't creating value people wouldn't do it at this scale.

acdha 5y ago
Who outside of the cryptocurrency industry would notice if they disappeared? Who outside of the automotive industry would notice if cars disappeared? That's your answer: pollution is still a concern but only one of those is balanced against significant real-world benefits for people other than the sellers.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  The automotive industry is 100+ years old whilst Bitcoin is only 13 years old, so you can't fairly compare them on the basis of "who would notice". My previous skepticism of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency was due to short-sightedness. You almost have to dip your toes in, in order to understand its potential.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Okay, use the web. Within a couple of years of its creation it had transformed businesses in all kinds of industries, government, education, recreational activities, etc. By the time it was as old as Bitcoin, the world was completely different and people were walking around with web clients in their pockets; in contrast, the most impact Bitcoin has had outside of its own community seems to be that it can be slightly cheaper than Western Union to send money to another country.
    - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
      I'm going to disagree with your timescale, mainly in the use of 'web' rather than 'internet'. The 'internet', which set the foundation for the 'web' started its existence in the 70's, and the 'web' wasn't really invented until the late 80's / early 90's. Memory of time passing seemingly gets very compressed the further back you go. Additionally, Bitcoin is an attempt at disrupting elements of the financial world (and cryptocurrencies as-a-whole are going after ALL of finance, not just elements of it). This is _the most powerful and well-funded aspect of modern civilisation_, so there's going to be severe resistance (to put it mildly) to any threat. It's also difficult to understand the concepts that are foundational to cryptocurrencies, and the average persons eyes glaze over (personal terminology my wife uses when I try to explain technologically difficult things that she really has no interest in) at the slightest dip into its technicalities. Better examples may be smart phones, but mobiles have been around since the mid-80's at least (that suitcase-sized portable phone in Lethal Weapon), and laptops are of a similar vintage (my argument being that smart phones are a combination of these two existing technologies). Smart phones also have that immediate-dopamine-hit working for their adoption rate whilst Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are a 'longer game' (arguably you could say those already on the 'inside' for crypto get the dopamine hit of profit or potential riches - rightly or wrongly, healthily or otherwise). Think of cryptocurrency as building a brand new Central Banking and Wall Street infrastructure. 13 years is still breast-feeding against that behemoth.

trident5000 5y ago

Yeah, it gives an exit for people avoiding a total financial wipe-out from irresponsible governments around the world who cant keep their greedy little fingers off the printing press to stay in power. Amongst other things. Remember when it took 3 days to transfer money before crypto showed up? That was ridiculous and other things still are (like banks taking your money and giving you almost no interest for the profits they make off it).

CryptoPunk 5y ago

You don't have to use crypto. Obviously some people want to be involved in crypto, so why not just respect their right to do with their own time/money what they want. If the environment is your concern, then you should propose application agnostic restrictions on emitting CO2. Not use the environment as an excuse to selectively prohibit an activity you personally dislike.

trophycase 5y ago

Step in how? Anyone I know who has ever held crypto for a significant amount of time is a working class person and it has changed their life for the better. If that's endangering financial stability then our system is a joke.