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Many VCs [1] and Hollywood [2] came to the opposite conclusion: [1] https://www.cityam.com/london-named-europes-best-startup-ecosystem-for-tech-firms-to-thrive

Many VCs [1] and Hollywood [2] came to the opposite conclusion: [1] https://www.cityam.com/london-named-europes-best-startup-ecosystem-for-tech-firms-to-thrive/ https://www.cityam.com/london-named-europes-best-startup-eco... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqydTPDKQ44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqydTPDKQ44

de_keyboard 5y ago
That City A.M. link mentions Brexit once and negatively - that London is still a good place for start-ups despite Brexit. I wouldn't call that the opposite conclusion.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > Start-ups in the UK raised the highest venture capital (VC) funding amount among all the European countries during January to July 2021. A total of 1,110 VC funding deals were announced in the UK during the period, while the disclosed funding value of these deals stood at USD16.4 billion, according to GlobalData. https://www.privateequitywire.co.uk/2021/08/25/305322/uk-based-start-ups-raise-usd164bn-vc-funding-during-january-july-2021-says https://www.privateequitywire.co.uk/2021/08/25/305322/uk-bas... UPD: some people seem to get offended so much when it comes to sheer numbers instead of a matter of opinions
  - croon 5y ago
    (Still) Raising the most VC funding is not the same as raising the most or more because of Brexit.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    this is a total non-sequitur given that London has always raised large amounts of VC money including pre-Brexit (quite naturally given that it's the largest city after Istanbul or Moscow in Europe, if you count those). if you want to judge the impact of Brexit you need to evaluate the UK's performance relative to its previous performance, it was always the largest single VC recipient in Europe. The continent has actually very rapidly caught up in terms of share of money raised over recent years. In 2020, VC funding in the UK only grew by 1.7% compared to 70% in Ireland, 25% in France, 11% in Germany, Scandinavia and so on. European share of the market is actually very quickly accelerating https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/hot-or-not-where-european-vc-funding-went-in-2020 https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/hot-or-not-where-europea... https://news.crunchbase.com/news/european-vc-funding-h1-2021/ https://news.crunchbase.com/news/european-vc-funding-h1-2021...
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      > The continent has actually very rapidly caught up in terms of share of money raised over recent years. In 2020, VC funding in the UK only grew by 1.7% compared to 70% in Ireland, 25% in France, 11% in Germany, Scandinavia and so on. European share of the market is actually very quickly accelerating growing high from significantly lower numbers always looks better in terms of % increase
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - avh02 5y ago
    if you really want an EU vs UK comparison - we need to lump all EU countries together. (I don't know what this number comes out to) But as "single most" - fair enough.
  - matthewmacleod 5y ago
    Nobody is offended – I think it's more that you're kind of ignoring the point. Yes, there continue to be lots of funding deals in London. That's something that neither supports nor contradicts your initial point that "VCs came to the opposite conclusion" – all it tells us is that the UK remains competitive regardless of Brexit.
  - orwin 5y ago
    Anecdata, but the two engineers i knew that went to work in London/Leads are back, and now working remotely with a UK salary (80 to 100k pounds, way more than the 50 to 60k euros me and others friends make), full-remote. I wouldn't be surprised that if the trend continue, Europeans will work even more for UK startup than they did before (i'm really tempted, i wanted to work for companies in East NA and be based in the caraibean, but Spain is at least as interesting place to live (and way cheaper) and UK salaries are very competitive, especially when considering paid leave)
  - jameshart 5y ago
    VCs see market disruption as an opportunity to invest in businesses that can take advantage of the change to seize a chunk of market share. When a bunch of trading barriers appear, cutting off players from participation in a market, startup opportunities will abound - that’s not surprising. Similarly, an epidemic of window-smashing might see record VC investment in window repair startups - that hardly refutes the broken window fallacy. The signal that is ‘increased investment activity’ doesn’t necessarily point to economic health.
mrtksn 5y ago
See, Brexit governs how things will be made and sold, how people will be hired and payed. UK has been #1 spot after SV for long time, it doesn't really has anything to do with Brexit. For some businesses the new trade situation is not bad, for some it is but you can't really argue that thanks to the increased red tape in trade and human resources companies are choosing UK to invest in certain industries that UK has been traditionally a powerhouse. There's no benefit for businesses when you artificially limit the talent pool and increase bureaucracy for hiring people. There's also no benefit in introduction of border checks in trade. Well, maybe it can be argued that thanks to the government being the first step in HR, British companies can overwork and underpay their foreign hires just like it's done in the USA thanks to the H-2B visa making the workers afraid of losing their job. However, if you are going to argue that thanks to the new visa rules UK companies are able to practically enslave their previously free workers, better show some numbers. I don't think that thanks to Brexit companies can now pay less to their EU workers who are afraid to lose their visa sponsorship. Even if UK companies are able to force EU employees to less pay and more work, it's very early to show up in any way because EU citizens had the chance to preserve their rights up until less than a year ago.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  I'd rather argue that extra bureaucracy around Brexit and UK <-> EU dynamics does exist, but it's not a decisive factor for the region (and businesses) to develop and prosper. Talent and businesses outside EU have always had these conditions with the UK, and now they are getting a level playing field.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    For some it is, for some it isn't. Because of the new relationship, you don't have one size fits all situation. Just don't present it like as if it is "thanks to Brexit". Brexit made things harder but it didn't kill it for everyone, except maybe for Intel.
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > (...) but it's not a decisive factor for the region (and businessess) to develop and prosper. That really depends on what definition you personally choose for "decisive", "develop", and "prosper". The EU is by far the largest trading partner of the UK[¹]. It's unreasonable to presume that a nation can improve their current state once they choose to introduce bureaucratic hurdles, delays, and additional cost on any dealings with their largest trading partner. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa...
avh02 5y ago
"When including box office and home entertainment revenue, the global film industry was worth $136 billion in 2018" [0] plus looking in [1] at Total United Kingdom, 2018 --> $2.74 billion vs "The industry's annual semiconductor sales revenue has since grown to over $481 billion, as of 2018" [2] So all in all, value lost in this limited context (of 3 discussed industries) due to Brexit. (granted, two are global numbers (call it 'potential') and one is a purely UK number (of which you're guaranteed 100%) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry [1]: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=VC_INVEST# https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=VC_INVEST# [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry edit: i don't know how to read --> 274 billion to 2.74 billion, drop ratio in text.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  I don't get why you compare it with the entire semiconductor industry, and not Intel alone. ARM is still in the UK. also, you're missing the point that whilst filming/entertainment on its own might be producing lower yield than a semiconductor producer's yield, it employs many more surrounding industries with their own revenue yield that is not included into total numbers.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    ARM makes less money in a year than Intel does in most months, or something to that effect. It's just a different game, making vs. designing chips.
  - avh02 5y ago
    semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room equipment procurement. You've moved the goalpost, but here we go, i'll bite: Intel revenue 2020: 77.87 billion [1] Now, granted, just because intel has a plant in the UK doesn't move all that revenue over to the UK all of a sudden, they have 8 fab plants [3], so each fab plant comes in at just under 10 billion USD (assuming they're all equal (and equal contributors to revenue), which i don't know and wouldn't expect to be), some countries have more than one fab plant too. but, we'll also filter to the film industry in the UK, we'll even take the best year, giving us 4 billion GBP in 2004 [2] (keep in mind GBP and USD here, and VEEEERY rough mathematics and assumptions) So even on the best day - your ENTIRE (maybe even both, i can't even be bothered to calculate) cited industry/industries in the UK is smaller in revenue than one fab plant that you missed out on. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel [2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-revenues-in-the-uk/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-rev... [3]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000015142/programs.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... edit: minor fixes

de_keyboard 5y ago

That City A.M. link mentions Brexit once and negatively - that London is still a good place for start-ups despite Brexit. I wouldn't call that the opposite conclusion.

ghostwriter 5y ago
> Start-ups in the UK raised the highest venture capital (VC) funding amount among all the European countries during January to July 2021. A total of 1,110 VC funding deals were announced in the UK during the period, while the disclosed funding value of these deals stood at USD16.4 billion, according to GlobalData. https://www.privateequitywire.co.uk/2021/08/25/305322/uk-based-start-ups-raise-usd164bn-vc-funding-during-january-july-2021-says https://www.privateequitywire.co.uk/2021/08/25/305322/uk-bas... UPD: some people seem to get offended so much when it comes to sheer numbers instead of a matter of opinions
- croon 5y ago
  (Still) Raising the most VC funding is not the same as raising the most or more because of Brexit.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Barrin92 5y ago
  this is a total non-sequitur given that London has always raised large amounts of VC money including pre-Brexit (quite naturally given that it's the largest city after Istanbul or Moscow in Europe, if you count those). if you want to judge the impact of Brexit you need to evaluate the UK's performance relative to its previous performance, it was always the largest single VC recipient in Europe. The continent has actually very rapidly caught up in terms of share of money raised over recent years. In 2020, VC funding in the UK only grew by 1.7% compared to 70% in Ireland, 25% in France, 11% in Germany, Scandinavia and so on. European share of the market is actually very quickly accelerating https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/hot-or-not-where-european-vc-funding-went-in-2020 https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/hot-or-not-where-europea... https://news.crunchbase.com/news/european-vc-funding-h1-2021/ https://news.crunchbase.com/news/european-vc-funding-h1-2021...
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > The continent has actually very rapidly caught up in terms of share of money raised over recent years. In 2020, VC funding in the UK only grew by 1.7% compared to 70% in Ireland, 25% in France, 11% in Germany, Scandinavia and so on. European share of the market is actually very quickly accelerating growing high from significantly lower numbers always looks better in terms of % increase
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- avh02 5y ago
  if you really want an EU vs UK comparison - we need to lump all EU countries together. (I don't know what this number comes out to) But as "single most" - fair enough.
- matthewmacleod 5y ago
  Nobody is offended – I think it's more that you're kind of ignoring the point. Yes, there continue to be lots of funding deals in London. That's something that neither supports nor contradicts your initial point that "VCs came to the opposite conclusion" – all it tells us is that the UK remains competitive regardless of Brexit.
- orwin 5y ago
  Anecdata, but the two engineers i knew that went to work in London/Leads are back, and now working remotely with a UK salary (80 to 100k pounds, way more than the 50 to 60k euros me and others friends make), full-remote. I wouldn't be surprised that if the trend continue, Europeans will work even more for UK startup than they did before (i'm really tempted, i wanted to work for companies in East NA and be based in the caraibean, but Spain is at least as interesting place to live (and way cheaper) and UK salaries are very competitive, especially when considering paid leave)
- jameshart 5y ago
  VCs see market disruption as an opportunity to invest in businesses that can take advantage of the change to seize a chunk of market share. When a bunch of trading barriers appear, cutting off players from participation in a market, startup opportunities will abound - that’s not surprising. Similarly, an epidemic of window-smashing might see record VC investment in window repair startups - that hardly refutes the broken window fallacy. The signal that is ‘increased investment activity’ doesn’t necessarily point to economic health.

mrtksn 5y ago

See, Brexit governs how things will be made and sold, how people will be hired and payed. UK has been #1 spot after SV for long time, it doesn't really has anything to do with Brexit. For some businesses the new trade situation is not bad, for some it is but you can't really argue that thanks to the increased red tape in trade and human resources companies are choosing UK to invest in certain industries that UK has been traditionally a powerhouse. There's no benefit for businesses when you artificially limit the talent pool and increase bureaucracy for hiring people. There's also no benefit in introduction of border checks in trade. Well, maybe it can be argued that thanks to the government being the first step in HR, British companies can overwork and underpay their foreign hires just like it's done in the USA thanks to the H-2B visa making the workers afraid of losing their job. However, if you are going to argue that thanks to the new visa rules UK companies are able to practically enslave their previously free workers, better show some numbers. I don't think that thanks to Brexit companies can now pay less to their EU workers who are afraid to lose their visa sponsorship. Even if UK companies are able to force EU employees to less pay and more work, it's very early to show up in any way because EU citizens had the chance to preserve their rights up until less than a year ago.

ghostwriter 5y ago
I'd rather argue that extra bureaucracy around Brexit and UK <-> EU dynamics does exist, but it's not a decisive factor for the region (and businesses) to develop and prosper. Talent and businesses outside EU have always had these conditions with the UK, and now they are getting a level playing field.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  For some it is, for some it isn't. Because of the new relationship, you don't have one size fits all situation. Just don't present it like as if it is "thanks to Brexit". Brexit made things harder but it didn't kill it for everyone, except maybe for Intel.
- nuerow 5y ago
  > (...) but it's not a decisive factor for the region (and businessess) to develop and prosper. That really depends on what definition you personally choose for "decisive", "develop", and "prosper". The EU is by far the largest trading partner of the UK[¹]. It's unreasonable to presume that a nation can improve their current state once they choose to introduce bureaucratic hurdles, delays, and additional cost on any dealings with their largest trading partner. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa...

avh02 5y ago

"When including box office and home entertainment revenue, the global film industry was worth $136 billion in 2018" [0] plus looking in [1] at Total United Kingdom, 2018 --> $2.74 billion vs "The industry's annual semiconductor sales revenue has since grown to over $481 billion, as of 2018" [2] So all in all, value lost in this limited context (of 3 discussed industries) due to Brexit. (granted, two are global numbers (call it 'potential') and one is a purely UK number (of which you're guaranteed 100%) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry [1]: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=VC_INVEST# https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=VC_INVEST# [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry edit: i don't know how to read --> 274 billion to 2.74 billion, drop ratio in text.

ghostwriter 5y ago
I don't get why you compare it with the entire semiconductor industry, and not Intel alone. ARM is still in the UK. also, you're missing the point that whilst filming/entertainment on its own might be producing lower yield than a semiconductor producer's yield, it employs many more surrounding industries with their own revenue yield that is not included into total numbers.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  ARM makes less money in a year than Intel does in most months, or something to that effect. It's just a different game, making vs. designing chips.
- avh02 5y ago
  semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room equipment procurement. You've moved the goalpost, but here we go, i'll bite: Intel revenue 2020: 77.87 billion [1] Now, granted, just because intel has a plant in the UK doesn't move all that revenue over to the UK all of a sudden, they have 8 fab plants [3], so each fab plant comes in at just under 10 billion USD (assuming they're all equal (and equal contributors to revenue), which i don't know and wouldn't expect to be), some countries have more than one fab plant too. but, we'll also filter to the film industry in the UK, we'll even take the best year, giving us 4 billion GBP in 2004 [2] (keep in mind GBP and USD here, and VEEEERY rough mathematics and assumptions) So even on the best day - your ENTIRE (maybe even both, i can't even be bothered to calculate) cited industry/industries in the UK is smaller in revenue than one fab plant that you missed out on. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel [2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-revenues-in-the-uk/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-rev... [3]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000015142/programs.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... edit: minor fixes