11 ms·

Brexit is ‘going badly,’ say Brits in new poll

43 points by belltaco 5y ago

_8j50 5y ago
Bread
IndySun 5y ago
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/29/ad945/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20... It's not surprising as half (almost) the original vote went to the remain choice.
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  What's surprising is the shift towards negative opinion. There's been a massive change since June. Not everyone who voted remain necessarily thought it was going poorly.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Along those lines it also seems a bit open to interpretation to me - if you voted 'remain' and always thought and still think it's an awful idea, from what baseline do you answer 'how is it going'? Does 'going well' mean 'absolutely' well - 'better than remaining', or just relatively; 'better than I thought it could, but still worse than having remained'?
- FatalLogic 5y ago
  If you mean that people who voted to Remain in the EU will always say Brexit is going badly, then this series of surveys does not support that argument: "53 percent said it was going badly, a rise of 15 percentage points from June" edit: direct links to the survey results June 21: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/06/21/199fd/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20... Sept 29: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/29/ad945/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20...
  - OJFord 5y ago
    But are they controlling for vote? (Or better for 'how would you vote now, assuming the EU Commission/Brexiting government goes on as you'd like'.) I assume this poll's just going to follow the news cycle, with different voters more inclined to respond accordingly.
    - FatalLogic 5y ago
      >But are they controlling for vote? They did ask. Click on the Politics tab above the survey results at YouGov But, in any case, a broadly-representative sample population will naturally reflect the original Brexit voting ratios, approximately (if YouGov can't even conduct a survey professionally, then we can stop wasting time discussing this, and ignore everything from them)
      - FridayoLeary 5y ago
        -(if YouGov can't even conduct a survey professionally, then we can stop wasting time discussing this, and ignore everything from them) Exactly! Since they messed up with Brexit and Trump i have been confidently ignoring every single poll that's emerged. I wonder what it would look like if our politicians did the same. It seems that the current government can only ever react to things.
        FatalLogic 5y ago
        >Since they [YouGov] messed up with Brexit and Trump i have been confidently ignoring every single poll that's emerged. Please look at the last 4 YouGov polls in the week before the Brexit vote[0]. Two show a very slim majority for Leave, and two had a very slim majority for Remain. In the event, a very slim majority voted for Leave. Those polls were remarkably accurate for such a small sample size, and well within a reasonable margin of error (2-4 percentage points in that case). You're confidently choosing to ignore useful data because you will only accept perfect data. But that doesn't exist. [0] https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/ https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/
      - 5y ago
yuppie_scum 5y ago
From the outside, I can’t see a single positive repercussion of Brexit.
- OJFord 5y ago
  There seemed to be a bit of a win in vaccine procurement relative to the EU early pandemic. The timing's turned out pretty un/fortunate (depending on your point of view; regardless of political side of it) with the coronavirus - complicating what's due how much to which, whether either can be blamed, affected the ability to respond to each other, etc.
  - _benedict 5y ago
    This was not a Brexit dividend, as participation in the procurement was optional, and it was undertaken while still a member of the single market. The same strategy could have been pursued while a member of the bloc.
- blibble 5y ago
  the AUKUS submarine deal is pretty recent there is absolutely no way that undermining France would have been on the table when the UK was part of the EU common defence
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
iamthemonster 5y ago
For those who are not familiar with UK's current situation, there have been a number of shortages over the last few months, in food and petrol particularly. Of course Brexit isn't the sole cause, but it was widely publicised that the UK was offering temporary visas (until Christmas Eve) to attract heavy goods drivers from the EU, with very poor uptake. They've had to bring in some army heavy goods drivers. Brexit is very much on people's minds at the moment with relation to factors immediately impacting them (queueing at the petrol station and seeing empty shelves) I should add that I'm in Australia and I'm not full bottle on UK's current situation myself, so I'm happy for someone to correct me.
- abraxas 5y ago
  I think the British people who voted for Brexit can really go fuck themselves with their visas. I'm happy there is scant uptake. As a Pole who spent in the UK seven years being bullied for the audacity of keeping a job there and being likened to vermin I really truly have had it with their attitude towards foreigners. That said, I had a thick skin and I put up with the abuse for way longer than I should have. But the day my son was born I noped out of that place for good. I pictured the abuse and bullying he was going to face purely on the account of his last name and I said, fuck it - no amount of money can compensate for such a toxic environment. C'mon Brits, you wanted no foreign workers - you got your wish granted, quit complaining! Brexit mean brexit, sleep in the bed you made.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    From Pew [1] 55% of Poles think that Migrants 'are a burden' while 21% believe that migrants 'make their nation stronger' - one of the lowest in Europe. 62% of UK citizens believe migrants 'make their country stronger' while only 29% believe they're a 'burden' - the highest ratio in Europe on this data point. This data is very consistent and shows that the UK is by far among (if not the most) open and tolerant towards migrants relative to other European nations, while Poland is consistently among the lowest ahead of only Greece, which is facing a migrant crisis. So maybe it's Poles who think the UK owes them something - and then blatantly lie about national attitudes towards migration ... can 'go fuck themselves' ? (your words, not mine) "you wanted no foreign workers" - this is total rubbish - that's not what Brexit was about, it's another of the common and fairly blatant anti-Brexit lies. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-credit-eu-with-promoting-peace-and-prosperity-but-say-brussels-is-out-of-touch-with-its-citizens/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-cred...
tartoran 5y ago
These repercussions were known before the vote so how’s it going can have a double take. I feel the Brexiters were duped into leaving the EU for no direct benefit to themselves, outside the ruling class of course. The pain will not be short lived and the transition will be a big headache for years to come. It’s extremely hard to predict ahead of time whether this move will eventually pay off down the road.
- Pet_Ant 5y ago
  The entire benefit is depending on how much you value autonomy. I feel like there was no real argument from pragmatics (I mean there was the NHS claims for dupes) but really it was „what is independence worth to you?” For the lead Brexiteers it’s alpha and omega and no suffering will dissuade them.
  - petre 5y ago
    Yes, for the Scots and Northern Irish too. They value autonomy allright. Does that nean we should go back to city states now?
    - strawhatguy 5y ago
      Smaller states do tend to be better behaved. Can’t make as many mistakes.
      - petre 5y ago
        Yes, only Russia, China and the US and to a lesser extent the EU will easily bully them. Just take a look at any of their neighbours. Most of Russia's neighbours aren't its frinds. Same goes for China. Kyrghystan went from being a colony of Russia to becoming a colony of China. Mongolia might end up there as well. Canada (#9) and Mexico (#18) are big states. Cuba, Guatemala or Nicaragua not so much. The EU is not as much a bully rather than a bigger brother, but somehow manages to push Switzerland into submission and would also try it with the UK as well (fishing rights). Serbia and North Macedonia both manage to obtain EU funds through different partnership projects with some hope of acession as a full EU member.
hahahaho 5y ago
In the thread. People blaming covid supply chain issues in brexit.
- pornel 5y ago
  I forgot only UK had the pandemic, and the European HGV drivers and farm workers all died from the virus.
nickd2001 5y ago
People who thought they could "have their cake and eat it" are now mystified that having eaten the cake, the plate appears to be empty. I wonder what people are going to think if there ends up being a hard border between England and Scotland, which seems like a risk if /when an independent Scotland rejoins the EU. I suppose the English will blame the EU, the Scots, anyone but ourselves....

43 points by belltaco 5y ago

Bread

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/29/ad945/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20... It's not surprising as half (almost) the original vote went to the remain choice.

ivraatiems 5y ago
What's surprising is the shift towards negative opinion. There's been a massive change since June. Not everyone who voted remain necessarily thought it was going poorly.
- OJFord 5y ago
  Along those lines it also seems a bit open to interpretation to me - if you voted 'remain' and always thought and still think it's an awful idea, from what baseline do you answer 'how is it going'? Does 'going well' mean 'absolutely' well - 'better than remaining', or just relatively; 'better than I thought it could, but still worse than having remained'?
FatalLogic 5y ago
If you mean that people who voted to Remain in the EU will always say Brexit is going badly, then this series of surveys does not support that argument: "53 percent said it was going badly, a rise of 15 percentage points from June" edit: direct links to the survey results June 21: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/06/21/199fd/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20... Sept 29: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/29/ad945/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/20...
- OJFord 5y ago
  But are they controlling for vote? (Or better for 'how would you vote now, assuming the EU Commission/Brexiting government goes on as you'd like'.) I assume this poll's just going to follow the news cycle, with different voters more inclined to respond accordingly.
  - FatalLogic 5y ago
    >But are they controlling for vote? They did ask. Click on the Politics tab above the survey results at YouGov But, in any case, a broadly-representative sample population will naturally reflect the original Brexit voting ratios, approximately (if YouGov can't even conduct a survey professionally, then we can stop wasting time discussing this, and ignore everything from them)
    - FridayoLeary 5y ago
      -(if YouGov can't even conduct a survey professionally, then we can stop wasting time discussing this, and ignore everything from them) Exactly! Since they messed up with Brexit and Trump i have been confidently ignoring every single poll that's emerged. I wonder what it would look like if our politicians did the same. It seems that the current government can only ever react to things.
      - FatalLogic 5y ago
        >Since they [YouGov] messed up with Brexit and Trump i have been confidently ignoring every single poll that's emerged. Please look at the last 4 YouGov polls in the week before the Brexit vote[0]. Two show a very slim majority for Leave, and two had a very slim majority for Remain. In the event, a very slim majority voted for Leave. Those polls were remarkably accurate for such a small sample size, and well within a reasonable margin of error (2-4 percentage points in that case). You're confidently choosing to ignore useful data because you will only accept perfect data. But that doesn't exist. [0] https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/ https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/
    - 5y ago

yuppie_scum 5y ago

From the outside, I can’t see a single positive repercussion of Brexit.

OJFord 5y ago
There seemed to be a bit of a win in vaccine procurement relative to the EU early pandemic. The timing's turned out pretty un/fortunate (depending on your point of view; regardless of political side of it) with the coronavirus - complicating what's due how much to which, whether either can be blamed, affected the ability to respond to each other, etc.
- _benedict 5y ago
  This was not a Brexit dividend, as participation in the procurement was optional, and it was undertaken while still a member of the single market. The same strategy could have been pursued while a member of the bloc.
blibble 5y ago
the AUKUS submarine deal is pretty recent there is absolutely no way that undermining France would have been on the table when the UK was part of the EU common defence
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

iamthemonster 5y ago

For those who are not familiar with UK's current situation, there have been a number of shortages over the last few months, in food and petrol particularly. Of course Brexit isn't the sole cause, but it was widely publicised that the UK was offering temporary visas (until Christmas Eve) to attract heavy goods drivers from the EU, with very poor uptake. They've had to bring in some army heavy goods drivers. Brexit is very much on people's minds at the moment with relation to factors immediately impacting them (queueing at the petrol station and seeing empty shelves) I should add that I'm in Australia and I'm not full bottle on UK's current situation myself, so I'm happy for someone to correct me.

abraxas 5y ago
I think the British people who voted for Brexit can really go fuck themselves with their visas. I'm happy there is scant uptake. As a Pole who spent in the UK seven years being bullied for the audacity of keeping a job there and being likened to vermin I really truly have had it with their attitude towards foreigners. That said, I had a thick skin and I put up with the abuse for way longer than I should have. But the day my son was born I noped out of that place for good. I pictured the abuse and bullying he was going to face purely on the account of his last name and I said, fuck it - no amount of money can compensate for such a toxic environment. C'mon Brits, you wanted no foreign workers - you got your wish granted, quit complaining! Brexit mean brexit, sleep in the bed you made.
- jollybean 5y ago
  From Pew [1] 55% of Poles think that Migrants 'are a burden' while 21% believe that migrants 'make their nation stronger' - one of the lowest in Europe. 62% of UK citizens believe migrants 'make their country stronger' while only 29% believe they're a 'burden' - the highest ratio in Europe on this data point. This data is very consistent and shows that the UK is by far among (if not the most) open and tolerant towards migrants relative to other European nations, while Poland is consistently among the lowest ahead of only Greece, which is facing a migrant crisis. So maybe it's Poles who think the UK owes them something - and then blatantly lie about national attitudes towards migration ... can 'go fuck themselves' ? (your words, not mine) "you wanted no foreign workers" - this is total rubbish - that's not what Brexit was about, it's another of the common and fairly blatant anti-Brexit lies. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-credit-eu-with-promoting-peace-and-prosperity-but-say-brussels-is-out-of-touch-with-its-citizens/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-cred...

tartoran 5y ago

These repercussions were known before the vote so how’s it going can have a double take. I feel the Brexiters were duped into leaving the EU for no direct benefit to themselves, outside the ruling class of course. The pain will not be short lived and the transition will be a big headache for years to come. It’s extremely hard to predict ahead of time whether this move will eventually pay off down the road.

Pet_Ant 5y ago
The entire benefit is depending on how much you value autonomy. I feel like there was no real argument from pragmatics (I mean there was the NHS claims for dupes) but really it was „what is independence worth to you?” For the lead Brexiteers it’s alpha and omega and no suffering will dissuade them.
- petre 5y ago
  Yes, for the Scots and Northern Irish too. They value autonomy allright. Does that nean we should go back to city states now?
  - strawhatguy 5y ago
    Smaller states do tend to be better behaved. Can’t make as many mistakes.
    - petre 5y ago
      Yes, only Russia, China and the US and to a lesser extent the EU will easily bully them. Just take a look at any of their neighbours. Most of Russia's neighbours aren't its frinds. Same goes for China. Kyrghystan went from being a colony of Russia to becoming a colony of China. Mongolia might end up there as well. Canada (#9) and Mexico (#18) are big states. Cuba, Guatemala or Nicaragua not so much. The EU is not as much a bully rather than a bigger brother, but somehow manages to push Switzerland into submission and would also try it with the UK as well (fishing rights). Serbia and North Macedonia both manage to obtain EU funds through different partnership projects with some hope of acession as a full EU member.

hahahaho 5y ago

In the thread. People blaming covid supply chain issues in brexit.

pornel 5y ago
I forgot only UK had the pandemic, and the European HGV drivers and farm workers all died from the virus.

nickd2001 5y ago

People who thought they could "have their cake and eat it" are now mystified that having eaten the cake, the plate appears to be empty. I wonder what people are going to think if there ends up being a hard border between England and Scotland, which seems like a risk if /when an independent Scotland rejoins the EU. I suppose the English will blame the EU, the Scots, anyone but ourselves....