6 ms·

Nearly 40% of adults from 25-54 are unpartnered [Pew Research]

snvzz 5y ago
Taxes do unjustly (sexism, dick tax) punish single men, but the marriage deal is even more disadvantageous. Most marriages will end in divorce, and most divorces will end up very unfavorably for men. Thus avoiding marriage stands to reason. There should not be a legal concept of marriage to begin with. The state should just treat everybody as individuals, and end this anachronistic insanity.
- dudul 5y ago
  Without marriage, how would US citizens be able to marry a foreigner and have them automatically get a green card? Edit: and I'm not being facetious. It's nice to say that marriage should not exist, but it has more implications than just taxes. How do you build a life with this woman you met during your vacation in Spain without marriage? How would she be able to come live with you?
- xupybd 5y ago
  Unfortunately biology doesn't treat everyone as equals. Women most often end up with the burden of raising the children. Marriage has a lot to do with making a commitment to stick around and help raise the kids.
  - dudul 5y ago
    Marriage stopped being that a while ago. Married or not, you can decide to take off at any time. And married or not, a man may be forced to pay for a kids - even if it's not his biological kid.
  - MCllorf 5y ago
    Once the child is past the age of breast feeding, biology has nothing to do with how well you can raise a child. It might determine who ends up with the child since judges tend to favor women, but that has more to do with tradition than their innate parental expertise.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    Please don't pretend that mothers and mothers-to-be don't have any agency in the events that lead up to birth. Marriage has little to do with reproduction. It's a legal construct, not a natural one. The law should not be obligated to compensate for the edicts of biology and certainly not at the expense of another's economic freedom. A woman chooses to incubate, and raise children. Where coercion or duress are not involved, she should bear responsibility for what are all the consequences of her choices with regards to her body.
  - snvzz 5y ago
    Marriage and parenthood are separate concepts.
randycupertino 5y ago
There is a lot to look here, but the main take away is that this unpartnered adults have been increasing significantly over the last 30 years. Men are generally more likely to be unpartnered than women. Also, there are significant ethnic differences. “While the unpartnered population includes some adults who were previously married (those who are separated, divorced or widowed), all of the growth in the unpartnered population since 1990 has come from a rise in the number who have never been married. This trend has broad societal implications, as does the growing gap in well-being between partnered and unpartnered adults. Looking across a range of measures of economic and social status, unpartnered adults generally have different – often worse – outcomes than those who are married or cohabiting. This pattern is apparent among both men and women. Unpartnered adults have lower earnings, on average, than partnered adults and are less likely to be employed or economically independent. They also have lower educational attainment and are more likely to live with their parents. Other research suggests that married and cohabiting adults fare better than those who are unpartnered when it comes to some health outcomes.” I don’t think our society is setup for singles, particularly singles as the majority. And we are getting pretty close. These findings are really interesting.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  The 3% difference in partner/unpartner rates of men vs women is entirely accounted for by the 4% difference in being institutionalized (e.g. in prison). Really these types of studies should control for this. > I don’t think our society is setup for singles, particularly singles as the majority. And we are getting pretty close. These findings are really interesting. Social reproduction is the primary requirement to have a society in the first place, and adult singles don't participate in social reproduction at anywhere near the rates of married couples. This is something that the society has to discourage in order to remain viable. Historically those who can't or won't participate in that process have taken on service roles that promote social reproduction, for example with nuns teaching schools, or priests reproducing the faith. People like this, together with widows, are really the only singles that are accepted by societies that survive across time, the others being subject to some social disapproval. If you lose that drive to survive and perpetuate your society, which all western liberal societies have, then it's just a question of making people more comfortable as the entire society shuffles off the game board. We are truly a Ship of Fools.
xqcgrek2 5y ago
Re: the rise of OnlyFans
- mc32 5y ago
  I don't think youu're far off. Similar happened in Japan and men (and women) became apathetic to sex or they sought sex services (soaplands) and near-sex alternatives like enjo kosai/mitsu (paid dates). We're just late to the sad party. In any event, we know "demand" for these "remote" in the sense of "removed" relationships is there.
nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
> In a 2017 Pew Research Center survey, 71% of U.S. adults said being able to support a family financially is very important for a man to be a good spouse or partner. Sad to see this harmful stereotype still being perpetuated. Men need to be empowered to be stay-at-home spouses. Being a dad is a fulltime job.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I’ve long given up on this idea that it’s perpetuated. If people want something, that’s what they want, no different than having a race or body type preference in a partner. What’s the alternative, to tell people the relationship attributes they want is wrong? Can’t squeeze the human out of the person. In similar fashion, educated women won’t date down, while men will [1]. Should we tell them that’s wrong? I don’t think that’s reasonable nor feasible. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=educated+women+dont+date+down https://www.google.com/search?q=educated+women+dont+date+dow... (quick glance through first two pages of results)
  - hindsightbias 5y ago
    Educated women will have to date down unless other support structures help with child rearing. Possible, but anecdotally I’m starting to see this where the men aren’t toxic or incelly in behavior. The young men work, but aren’t the dominant breadwinners. I think in previous generations there was a status issue with working women but the latest generation isn’t as hung up on that. Given how many of them probably grew up in divorced homes they’re going to be more pragmatic about their spouses.
- post_from_work 5y ago
  >>>Sad to see this harmful stereotype still being perpetuated. Men need to be empowered to be stay-at-home spouses. Studies and anecdata indicate that stay-at-home husbands have higher divorce rates, and lower rates of spousal satisfaction.[1][2] In other words, the wives who say they are comfortable with their husbands sitting at home with the kids...actually aren't. Trying to socially engineer that out of women's psyches will be about as successful as trying to convince them to date men who are shorter than them. [1]https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/fathers-day/stay-at-home-husbands-more-likely-to-divorce-study/article615833/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/fathers-day/s... [2]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3710922/The-REAL-reason-modern-marriages-end-Women-likely-divorce-stay-home-dads-fail-live-breadwinner-stereotype.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3710922/The-...
twirlock 5y ago
Hey I know, let's see if we can just downvote away the fact that the past two decades of social policy aren't working. Let's see if we can obscure the systemic perspective as much as possible, at least the one that pertains to any real system.
floatingatoll 5y ago
I'm in that age band, and I'm unlikely to ever get married. There are too many economic entanglements for it to be worth the risk of it, so few people of my age can afford to have children anymore anyways so it's not like there's any legal necessity left now that we all have insurance, and it only costs $10 and 10 minutes to notarize a domestic partnership declaration versus $50,000 and months of drama to satisfy the societal obligations of a Wedding(tm). Who has any energy left for drama these days? I sure don't. I look forward to finding out whether universal basic incomes has a delayed effect on marriage rates over a ten year period, though.
- shagie 5y ago
  On the old end of that band... When I was in SV during the dot com boom, the combination of the gender imbalance in the area (I seem to recall it being about 80 single women for every 100 single men between the ages of 20 and 29), the lack of having any firm tie to the area (no hope of getting a house - it was all single bedroom apartment rentals) and the, lets call it "cost of courtship" - it really didn't make financial sense to invest too much time or heart into dating and trying to get married. Later and elsewhere, the expectation that I'd be the single source of income for a family of a previously divorced woman and step kids was a distinct turn off for trying to pursue a relationship later. Having siblings get married, have kids, and get divorced and the continued difficulties with that a decade later makes marriage and kids even less appealing to someone who has never had either to see what benefit they provide (yes, I'm sure they do - I just don't know what it is in relationship to my own investment of time, money, and heart). Now, I'm going to say I'm a grumpish graying beard who's too set in his ways. Sure, it would be nice to have a partner in life to take some of the household decisions. Managing a house as a single adult is more difficult and expensive than doing it with a partner, but the degree of change that I am expected to make accommodations in my life just makes it feel not worth it to even try to pursue. And as I write this, I'll note that I do have at least a bachelor's degree, I am employed, my salary is well above the median earnings reported, and I am not financially vulnerable; nor am I living in my parents' home, institutionalized, or have any children in the household. So in those respects for this survey, I'm atypical. --- Aside: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/11/the-share-of-americans-living-without-a-partner-has-increased-especially-among-young-adults/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/11/the-share-o... is an earlier reporting of the data based on the 2007 - 2017 data.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
That’s crazy. How could essentially half of the pairing age population be unpaired? I’m in favor of the procrasturbation theory: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex...
- imtringued 5y ago
  We need a central baby bank to target a minimum fertility rate... People will call it out because it failed to reach its target. The baby bank will do baby QE, it will buy birth certificates and in exchange pay college tuition. Then people will say that baby QE does nothing. Just because people can pay tuition doesn't mean they actually go to college.
analogdreams 5y ago
that number seems high to me when i look at my social and acquaintance circles, but as an unpartnered person in the age range i can certainly understand it... the way i personally see it, having essentially made my money and now working only for cashflow and to occupy some time the risks of partnering up are 2 great should a divorce happen. add to that my political views and lack of interest in raising someone elses kids the dating pool is almost entirely empty unless really pushing the 'age acceptable' limits (not looking for a trophy) and what is left is not attractive to me at all. what i do wonder about for me, and those like me if the #'s are as high as this study says, is what is going to happen in old age w/ the lack of spouse, children, etc. to assist?
- post_from_work 5y ago
  I encourage all sane, socially-well-adjusted, financially-stable men to simply date overseas. Excepting the recent COVID problem impairing travel, your dating pool is essentially all 3.5 billion women on the planet. Especially if you are willing to work remotely, there is almost no incentive to restrict yourself to your domestic regional/national women. Finding a fertile LOYAL childless woman with tolerable political views is not that difficult. You just need to search off the beaten path in developing countries. And then STAY OVERSEAS. Most countries don't have America's costly and misandrist divorce/alimony laws.
- anon9001 5y ago
  I'm heading into the same situation. I wonder if there's a way to match with equally wealthy partners. I suspect there aren't that many out there.
- sjg007 5y ago
  You can get a prenup. If you do "raise someone else's kids" though and they like you you will have people in old age to help you and visit. Otherwise it's the nursing home staff.
hannyaharamita 5y ago
Unpartnered or partner-free?
dfasfdasfd 5y ago
Don't marry a woman, unless she is a virgin.
bcwarner 5y ago
I don't think this is very surprising as someone just below this age band. At my college, I've noticed a significant gap and some associated resentment exists as well, even though the gender ratio is near even and has the student population of a private R1. Some friends of mine cycle through dozens of potential partners easily and never appear to end up in a relationship in spite of wanting one. The issues of marriage are not a contributing factor either, since that is too far in the future to be relevant. Online, you can easily find communities of men and women who lament not being able to find a partner, demanding that the opposite gender change their behavior. Such behavior is unproductive and toxic, but reflects a an unfortunate reality that there is a deadweight loss among people who are unpartnered. It's sad overall that such a gap exists. A significant subset of the population is simply unable to meet the needs/get their own needs met of people they are interested in. I wonder what the long term outcome of this will be, but at minimum recognizing such a problem exists and attempting to do what we can for ourselves and others to be a good partner is probably the best we can do.
nkssy 5y ago
Family court, alimony, child support, paternity, the list of broken systems goes on. Essentially, if you're male in the US the disincentives around getting married are strong and real. Even cohabitating has serious risks associated with it. The pew research didn't mention any of these issues. It's almost as if they think marriage/partnering is a solution. I saw wording multiple times almost suggesting that. I'm not surprised people aren't partnering. Its a mess. The system is broken.
- cafard 5y ago
  What in particular is broken with child support? And I don't understand what you mean by "paternity" here.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    I like this ted talk that goes into detail about the gender imbalances in divorce law: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSwsE22nX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSwsE22nX0 The tender years doctrine is one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine
- nkssy 5y ago
  Those who disagreed with my comment very obviously haven't had to counsel men going through family court. Multiple relatives have needed assistance to do so. Family court and everything around divorce is entirely made more difficult than it ever should be. Broken is an understatement.

Taxes do unjustly (sexism, dick tax) punish single men, but the marriage deal is even more disadvantageous. Most marriages will end in divorce, and most divorces will end up very unfavorably for men. Thus avoiding marriage stands to reason. There should not be a legal concept of marriage to begin with. The state should just treat everybody as individuals, and end this anachronistic insanity.

dudul 5y ago
Without marriage, how would US citizens be able to marry a foreigner and have them automatically get a green card? Edit: and I'm not being facetious. It's nice to say that marriage should not exist, but it has more implications than just taxes. How do you build a life with this woman you met during your vacation in Spain without marriage? How would she be able to come live with you?
xupybd 5y ago
Unfortunately biology doesn't treat everyone as equals. Women most often end up with the burden of raising the children. Marriage has a lot to do with making a commitment to stick around and help raise the kids.
- dudul 5y ago
  Marriage stopped being that a while ago. Married or not, you can decide to take off at any time. And married or not, a man may be forced to pay for a kids - even if it's not his biological kid.
- MCllorf 5y ago
  Once the child is past the age of breast feeding, biology has nothing to do with how well you can raise a child. It might determine who ends up with the child since judges tend to favor women, but that has more to do with tradition than their innate parental expertise.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Please don't pretend that mothers and mothers-to-be don't have any agency in the events that lead up to birth. Marriage has little to do with reproduction. It's a legal construct, not a natural one. The law should not be obligated to compensate for the edicts of biology and certainly not at the expense of another's economic freedom. A woman chooses to incubate, and raise children. Where coercion or duress are not involved, she should bear responsibility for what are all the consequences of her choices with regards to her body.
- snvzz 5y ago
  Marriage and parenthood are separate concepts.

randycupertino 5y ago

There is a lot to look here, but the main take away is that this unpartnered adults have been increasing significantly over the last 30 years. Men are generally more likely to be unpartnered than women. Also, there are significant ethnic differences. “While the unpartnered population includes some adults who were previously married (those who are separated, divorced or widowed), all of the growth in the unpartnered population since 1990 has come from a rise in the number who have never been married. This trend has broad societal implications, as does the growing gap in well-being between partnered and unpartnered adults. Looking across a range of measures of economic and social status, unpartnered adults generally have different – often worse – outcomes than those who are married or cohabiting. This pattern is apparent among both men and women. Unpartnered adults have lower earnings, on average, than partnered adults and are less likely to be employed or economically independent. They also have lower educational attainment and are more likely to live with their parents. Other research suggests that married and cohabiting adults fare better than those who are unpartnered when it comes to some health outcomes.” I don’t think our society is setup for singles, particularly singles as the majority. And we are getting pretty close. These findings are really interesting.

rsj_hn 5y ago
The 3% difference in partner/unpartner rates of men vs women is entirely accounted for by the 4% difference in being institutionalized (e.g. in prison). Really these types of studies should control for this. > I don’t think our society is setup for singles, particularly singles as the majority. And we are getting pretty close. These findings are really interesting. Social reproduction is the primary requirement to have a society in the first place, and adult singles don't participate in social reproduction at anywhere near the rates of married couples. This is something that the society has to discourage in order to remain viable. Historically those who can't or won't participate in that process have taken on service roles that promote social reproduction, for example with nuns teaching schools, or priests reproducing the faith. People like this, together with widows, are really the only singles that are accepted by societies that survive across time, the others being subject to some social disapproval. If you lose that drive to survive and perpetuate your society, which all western liberal societies have, then it's just a question of making people more comfortable as the entire society shuffles off the game board. We are truly a Ship of Fools.

xqcgrek2 5y ago

Re: the rise of OnlyFans

mc32 5y ago
I don't think youu're far off. Similar happened in Japan and men (and women) became apathetic to sex or they sought sex services (soaplands) and near-sex alternatives like enjo kosai/mitsu (paid dates). We're just late to the sad party. In any event, we know "demand" for these "remote" in the sense of "removed" relationships is there.

nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago

> In a 2017 Pew Research Center survey, 71% of U.S. adults said being able to support a family financially is very important for a man to be a good spouse or partner. Sad to see this harmful stereotype still being perpetuated. Men need to be empowered to be stay-at-home spouses. Being a dad is a fulltime job.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
I’ve long given up on this idea that it’s perpetuated. If people want something, that’s what they want, no different than having a race or body type preference in a partner. What’s the alternative, to tell people the relationship attributes they want is wrong? Can’t squeeze the human out of the person. In similar fashion, educated women won’t date down, while men will [1]. Should we tell them that’s wrong? I don’t think that’s reasonable nor feasible. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=educated+women+dont+date+down https://www.google.com/search?q=educated+women+dont+date+dow... (quick glance through first two pages of results)
- hindsightbias 5y ago
  Educated women will have to date down unless other support structures help with child rearing. Possible, but anecdotally I’m starting to see this where the men aren’t toxic or incelly in behavior. The young men work, but aren’t the dominant breadwinners. I think in previous generations there was a status issue with working women but the latest generation isn’t as hung up on that. Given how many of them probably grew up in divorced homes they’re going to be more pragmatic about their spouses.
post_from_work 5y ago
>>>Sad to see this harmful stereotype still being perpetuated. Men need to be empowered to be stay-at-home spouses. Studies and anecdata indicate that stay-at-home husbands have higher divorce rates, and lower rates of spousal satisfaction.[1][2] In other words, the wives who say they are comfortable with their husbands sitting at home with the kids...actually aren't. Trying to socially engineer that out of women's psyches will be about as successful as trying to convince them to date men who are shorter than them. [1]https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/fathers-day/stay-at-home-husbands-more-likely-to-divorce-study/article615833/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/fathers-day/s... [2]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3710922/The-REAL-reason-modern-marriages-end-Women-likely-divorce-stay-home-dads-fail-live-breadwinner-stereotype.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3710922/The-...

twirlock 5y ago

Hey I know, let's see if we can just downvote away the fact that the past two decades of social policy aren't working. Let's see if we can obscure the systemic perspective as much as possible, at least the one that pertains to any real system.

floatingatoll 5y ago

I'm in that age band, and I'm unlikely to ever get married. There are too many economic entanglements for it to be worth the risk of it, so few people of my age can afford to have children anymore anyways so it's not like there's any legal necessity left now that we all have insurance, and it only costs $10 and 10 minutes to notarize a domestic partnership declaration versus $50,000 and months of drama to satisfy the societal obligations of a Wedding(tm). Who has any energy left for drama these days? I sure don't. I look forward to finding out whether universal basic incomes has a delayed effect on marriage rates over a ten year period, though.

shagie 5y ago
On the old end of that band... When I was in SV during the dot com boom, the combination of the gender imbalance in the area (I seem to recall it being about 80 single women for every 100 single men between the ages of 20 and 29), the lack of having any firm tie to the area (no hope of getting a house - it was all single bedroom apartment rentals) and the, lets call it "cost of courtship" - it really didn't make financial sense to invest too much time or heart into dating and trying to get married. Later and elsewhere, the expectation that I'd be the single source of income for a family of a previously divorced woman and step kids was a distinct turn off for trying to pursue a relationship later. Having siblings get married, have kids, and get divorced and the continued difficulties with that a decade later makes marriage and kids even less appealing to someone who has never had either to see what benefit they provide (yes, I'm sure they do - I just don't know what it is in relationship to my own investment of time, money, and heart). Now, I'm going to say I'm a grumpish graying beard who's too set in his ways. Sure, it would be nice to have a partner in life to take some of the household decisions. Managing a house as a single adult is more difficult and expensive than doing it with a partner, but the degree of change that I am expected to make accommodations in my life just makes it feel not worth it to even try to pursue. And as I write this, I'll note that I do have at least a bachelor's degree, I am employed, my salary is well above the median earnings reported, and I am not financially vulnerable; nor am I living in my parents' home, institutionalized, or have any children in the household. So in those respects for this survey, I'm atypical. --- Aside: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/11/the-share-of-americans-living-without-a-partner-has-increased-especially-among-young-adults/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/11/the-share-o... is an earlier reporting of the data based on the 2007 - 2017 data.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

That’s crazy. How could essentially half of the pairing age population be unpaired? I’m in favor of the procrasturbation theory: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex...

imtringued 5y ago
We need a central baby bank to target a minimum fertility rate... People will call it out because it failed to reach its target. The baby bank will do baby QE, it will buy birth certificates and in exchange pay college tuition. Then people will say that baby QE does nothing. Just because people can pay tuition doesn't mean they actually go to college.

analogdreams 5y ago

that number seems high to me when i look at my social and acquaintance circles, but as an unpartnered person in the age range i can certainly understand it... the way i personally see it, having essentially made my money and now working only for cashflow and to occupy some time the risks of partnering up are 2 great should a divorce happen. add to that my political views and lack of interest in raising someone elses kids the dating pool is almost entirely empty unless really pushing the 'age acceptable' limits (not looking for a trophy) and what is left is not attractive to me at all. what i do wonder about for me, and those like me if the #'s are as high as this study says, is what is going to happen in old age w/ the lack of spouse, children, etc. to assist?

post_from_work 5y ago
I encourage all sane, socially-well-adjusted, financially-stable men to simply date overseas. Excepting the recent COVID problem impairing travel, your dating pool is essentially all 3.5 billion women on the planet. Especially if you are willing to work remotely, there is almost no incentive to restrict yourself to your domestic regional/national women. Finding a fertile LOYAL childless woman with tolerable political views is not that difficult. You just need to search off the beaten path in developing countries. And then STAY OVERSEAS. Most countries don't have America's costly and misandrist divorce/alimony laws.
anon9001 5y ago
I'm heading into the same situation. I wonder if there's a way to match with equally wealthy partners. I suspect there aren't that many out there.
sjg007 5y ago
You can get a prenup. If you do "raise someone else's kids" though and they like you you will have people in old age to help you and visit. Otherwise it's the nursing home staff.

hannyaharamita 5y ago

Unpartnered or partner-free?

dfasfdasfd 5y ago

Don't marry a woman, unless she is a virgin.

bcwarner 5y ago

I don't think this is very surprising as someone just below this age band. At my college, I've noticed a significant gap and some associated resentment exists as well, even though the gender ratio is near even and has the student population of a private R1. Some friends of mine cycle through dozens of potential partners easily and never appear to end up in a relationship in spite of wanting one. The issues of marriage are not a contributing factor either, since that is too far in the future to be relevant. Online, you can easily find communities of men and women who lament not being able to find a partner, demanding that the opposite gender change their behavior. Such behavior is unproductive and toxic, but reflects a an unfortunate reality that there is a deadweight loss among people who are unpartnered. It's sad overall that such a gap exists. A significant subset of the population is simply unable to meet the needs/get their own needs met of people they are interested in. I wonder what the long term outcome of this will be, but at minimum recognizing such a problem exists and attempting to do what we can for ourselves and others to be a good partner is probably the best we can do.

nkssy 5y ago

Family court, alimony, child support, paternity, the list of broken systems goes on. Essentially, if you're male in the US the disincentives around getting married are strong and real. Even cohabitating has serious risks associated with it. The pew research didn't mention any of these issues. It's almost as if they think marriage/partnering is a solution. I saw wording multiple times almost suggesting that. I'm not surprised people aren't partnering. Its a mess. The system is broken.

cafard 5y ago
What in particular is broken with child support? And I don't understand what you mean by "paternity" here.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  I like this ted talk that goes into detail about the gender imbalances in divorce law: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSwsE22nX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSwsE22nX0 The tender years doctrine is one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine
nkssy 5y ago
Those who disagreed with my comment very obviously haven't had to counsel men going through family court. Multiple relatives have needed assistance to do so. Family court and everything around divorce is entirely made more difficult than it ever should be. Broken is an understatement.