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Why are opacity and complexity so often invoked as a reason here? I don’t want to be mass-profiling populations with totally clear and simple technologies, eith

Why are opacity and complexity so often invoked as a reason here? I don’t want to be mass-profiling populations with totally clear and simple technologies, either.

capableweb 5y ago
My guess is that "opacity" is referring to implementations, while "complexity" is referring to the effects. "Totally clear and simple technologies" is referring to just the implementation. We don't want to get involved with AI because of the complex issues it opens, not because the current implementations are complex.
lmkg 5y ago
Opacity (of which complexity is a form) is an impediment to accountability. I agree there are many reasons that I don't want mass surveillance and profiling, but I think a lack of accountability of a system is a very large force-multiplier for the malignant effects its ends up having.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  What do you think about police having to fulfill certain quotas in their policing?
mrweasel 5y ago
Opacity because if you are detained by the police they should be able to tell you why. Many, if not all, AI solution based on a training sets will have a hard time telling you exactly why you where flagged. Also even if they can tell you that the AI believe that the combination of your ears and nose makes you look like some wanted person, what are you suppose to do about it?
- atoav 5y ago
  Maybe we can develop AI that decides who has a criminal look based on the shape of the skull? /s As someone living in Germany all these AI approaches have a distinct fascist flavour to them and remind me of my Nazi grandfather who claimed he "could just tell" our bosnian neighbours have "something criminal" in their blood.
vagrantJin 5y ago
Even if the below commentor is correct about the lack of accountability - which I assume is important in a democracy - and the more insidious danger is the obvious moral and ethical issues.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  Could you be a little clearer on what the “obvious moral and ethical issues” are? Personally I’m not sure what you’re referencing, and I also don’t think the many of the moral and ethical issues are obvious. If they were, then I suspect countries like the UK wouldn’t already be trialing many of these technologies.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    AI today is on a level of an illiterate toddler with a talent for stochastic at least. Using it to classify people is unethical because it puts suspicion on them without evidence or sense.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Exactly, it is not that necessity would demand it anyway. Security today is often emotional and if there is no real threat, it will be made up.

Why are opacity and complexity so often invoked as a reason here? I don’t want to be mass-profiling populations with totally clear and simple technologies, either.

capableweb 5y ago

My guess is that "opacity" is referring to implementations, while "complexity" is referring to the effects. "Totally clear and simple technologies" is referring to just the implementation. We don't want to get involved with AI because of the complex issues it opens, not because the current implementations are complex.

lmkg 5y ago

Opacity (of which complexity is a form) is an impediment to accountability. I agree there are many reasons that I don't want mass surveillance and profiling, but I think a lack of accountability of a system is a very large force-multiplier for the malignant effects its ends up having.

raxxorrax 5y ago
What do you think about police having to fulfill certain quotas in their policing?

mrweasel 5y ago

Opacity because if you are detained by the police they should be able to tell you why. Many, if not all, AI solution based on a training sets will have a hard time telling you exactly why you where flagged. Also even if they can tell you that the AI believe that the combination of your ears and nose makes you look like some wanted person, what are you suppose to do about it?

atoav 5y ago
Maybe we can develop AI that decides who has a criminal look based on the shape of the skull? /s As someone living in Germany all these AI approaches have a distinct fascist flavour to them and remind me of my Nazi grandfather who claimed he "could just tell" our bosnian neighbours have "something criminal" in their blood.

vagrantJin 5y ago

Even if the below commentor is correct about the lack of accountability - which I assume is important in a democracy - and the more insidious danger is the obvious moral and ethical issues.

avianlyric 5y ago
Could you be a little clearer on what the “obvious moral and ethical issues” are? Personally I’m not sure what you’re referencing, and I also don’t think the many of the moral and ethical issues are obvious. If they were, then I suspect countries like the UK wouldn’t already be trialing many of these technologies.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  AI today is on a level of an illiterate toddler with a talent for stochastic at least. Using it to classify people is unethical because it puts suspicion on them without evidence or sense.

raxxorrax 5y ago

Exactly, it is not that necessity would demand it anyway. Security today is often emotional and if there is no real threat, it will be made up.