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This is not just about the loss of PRs or citizens. Singapore is one of the most expensive places in the world to live in. More people in SG are choosing to ma
by korginator 5y ago
This is not just about the loss of PRs or citizens. Singapore is one of the most expensive places in the world to live in.
More people in SG are choosing to marry later, have kids later, or have fewer kids. Many people register a marriage just to qualify for subsidised HDB housing, get that out of the way and focus on their careers.
Talking about children, schools and universities are highly subsidised for citizens, and somewhat discounted for PRs. For example [1] a citizen admitted to the National University of Singapore to study engineering pays $8,200 (about US$6,050) a year vs the $38,200 a year that an international student without any subsidies would pay.
This differentiation is even more marked for primary and secondary schools and junior colleges [2] for example a citizen pays $0 in primary school fees while a foreigner pays up to $775++ a month. A permanent resident attending secondary school pays $400 a months vs about $20-25 for a citizen.
This is a direct incentive for citizens to have more children, but also discourages PRs and foreigners from having children in SG, or to remain in SG for a long time if they don't plan to become citizens.
Healthcare is also subsidised for citizens, you are covered by the CPF (pension scheme) MediShield plan, or a linked insurance policy, whereas PRs pay more and non-PRs have no CPF coverage.
In my experience, what you're seeing here is a readjustment towards a new normal, nothing alarming, and probably what was planned all along.
[1] NUS tuition fees: https://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/administrative-policies-procedures/undergraduate/undergraduate-fees https://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/administrative-policies-pro...
[2] MOE school fees: https://www.moe.gov.sg/financial-matters/fees https://www.moe.gov.sg/financial-matters/fees
- philliphaydon 5y agoThe cost of living in Singapore isn’t high. Especially compared to Australia. But to have a family in Singapore? One of the reasons I just left… Health insurance is given to all employees if a company has > 50 employees. (Otherwise it’s up to the company if they want to give health insurance)
- jb1991 5y agoI have some friends who pay 3000 Singapore dollars for a rather small one bedroom apartment, I would definitely consider that a high cost of living.
- dehrmann 5y agoStill cheaper than SF.
- philliphaydon 5y agoI rented a 1350sqf apartment with 4 bedrooms for $2500, 28th floor, next to a mall with 24/hr super market, and 2m walk to the MRT station. Singapore is cheap to live in. It can be expensive if you choose to live a high roller life style. All studies for the cost of living in singapore include things for expats that you don’t need, like owning a car.
- jb1991 5y agoI'm guessing you were pretty far out from the center. That price doesn't align with the experiences of people I'm close to who live there, and who I have visited. But they do live in a more central area. Also, the HDB-style housing is often less expensive, as some are pretty run down and not likely popular with expats, but they are cheaper.
- philliphaydon 5y agoI lived in Singapore for 10 years in both HDB and condo. Close to the cbd and far. HDB can be run down yes, but most are not. They simply do not have things like gym and pool. Majority of the expats will get a condo first and then realise they don’t use any of this stuff and later change to HDB. Condos are often poorly constructed. I lived in a condo that had just been finished about 6 months earlier. In Jurong east called j gateway. It’s one of the worst buildings I’ve ever been in. They put tiles on the floor that are meant for walls, and the floor to the shower is flat so the water pools and don’t run out causing water splotches. Anyway my point is: Singapore is cheap to live in. If you want to live near the cbd (unsure why cos most expats prefer to socialise around Holland village) then you have to pay for it. If you don’t want to eat locally and instead order grab food or eat at restaurants then yeah it’s expensive. But that doesn’t make Singapore expensive to live in, your chosen life style is expensive.
- thehappypm 5y ago
- TulliusCicero 5y agoSo having kids is grossly expensive if you're a non-citizen? I mean, that kind of makes at least one remedy for a low birthrate obvious, right? Is there a reason they're reluctant to treat permanent residents the same as citizens for kid stuff?
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y agoSingapore has mandatory national service for citizens and 2nd gen PRs. So many PRs I know or their kids immigrated once the kids were at that age. Not just because they don’t want to serve, but serving in another countries military might get messy. Not sure they have an incentive to make it easier for PRs.
- Yeri 5y agoIt may also be illegal to serve national service (NS) in another country. I.e. I believe Turkish nationals are not allowed to serve, so as a PR this can indeed get very messy/illegal, or you may end up doing two different nationa services.
- xbmcuser 5y agoThey used to till maybe 5-6 years age. As many people were getting PR using all the perks then leaving Singapore back for their home country like subsidized housing and cheap schooling etc.
- irjustin 5y agoBirthrates for non-PR/citizens shouldn't affect the long term outlook nearly as heavily as expats are not expected to stay. > Is there a reason they're reluctant to treat permanent residents the same as citizens for kid stuff? My naive guess is, yes there is. PR is a merit based system to gain access to the "full thing" you need to be willing to put in the work. At the core they need to solve the local population's birth rate problem.
- arvinsim 5y agoHow can you claim that getting PR is merit based when the criteria is opaque?
- acchow 5y ago> Singapore is one of the most expensive places in the world to live in. According to their cost of living plus rent index, Singapore is 32nd most expensive city https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings.jsp https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings.jsp Top 3 are Hamilton, San Francisco, and Zurich.
- teleforce 5y agoHow on earth Seoul is at no. 70 and Zurich at no. 3? Anecdotally, according to someone who's familiar to both places living in Seoul now is more expensive compared to Switzerland's cities (Top 6 from top 10 cities).
- vinay427 5y agoAs someone that currently lives in Zurich but has no experience with Seoul, I find a lot of these metrics prioritize certain things which skew their results for many people with other lifestyles. For instance, I was paying 2-3 times as much in living expenses in SF compared to here in Zurich, almost entirely because of rental costs. Apartments here are relatively cheap, and one can survive somewhat frugally by avoiding service-based spending such as dining in restaurants, taxis, etc.
- pzo 5y agoThere are 563 entries (cities) in numbeo so 32nd place still keeps Singapore in top 5% most expensive cities to live (probably even higher since numbeo doesn't list many cities)
- esyir 5y agoMight want to normalise for income here. Having a high cost of living but high median income would be a bit of a misrepresentation.
- irjustin 5y agoI'm trying to understand your fundamental point. "That Singapore is losing foreigners because it is so expensive to live?" If that's the argument, then I agree. But you've got a lot of other stuff doesn't speak towards that end because it's talking about how cheap it is for citizens. If you're a citizen, it's quite affordable to live in SG vs many other first world countries, all inclusive. US seems cheap at first, but factor in any amount of healthcare and you've got a real problem on your hands. HK far out weighs housing costs. Still trying to understand the core thought.
- api 5y agoSingapore's shiny police state reminds me of a zoo for humans. Animals in zoos don't reproduce as much either.